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Old 08-21-2016, 02:44 PM   #1
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Read my data-logs please

Did a data-log after I added the larger throttle body, and I was wondering if anyone in this forum knows how to read them.

So far all my tunes have come from Steeda, which was an initial tune and a re-tune when I went cat-less( I assume all they did was turn the 02 sensors off)

However they won't re-tune for larger throttle body or ported manifolds.

So I data-logged to see if there would be any benefit to getting a new tune through someone else.
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Old 08-21-2016, 05:31 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by 2012MCA View Post
Did a data-log after I added the larger throttle body, and I was wondering if anyone in this forum knows how to read them.

So far all my tunes have come from Steeda, which was an initial tune and a re-tune when I went cat-less( I assume all they did was turn the 02 sensors off)

However they won't re-tune for larger throttle body or ported manifolds.

So I data-logged to see if there would be any benefit to getting a new tune through someone else.
I can read them and I know Voltwings could. I am tuning my car with HP Tuners (still learning, definitely know my way around though), so I forget a lot of the specifics in SCT, but these videos should teach you a lot.

Here is a very good video on how to datalog by Shaun @ AED
https://youtu.be/ZvrVJwthRAE

Here is a video on reading datalogs, also courtesy of Shaun @ AED
https://youtu.be/AaQiKYbYksg

These are the basics, you can pick up most of the details from just practicing taking datalogs.

You can definitely tell how safe the tune is by taking a datalog, as far as power on the table, that's really subjective (if that's the right word). There's no telling what your combination likes without a dyno. You can look and see if fueling is accurate, if the car is knocking or is adding significant timing, but outside of making sure the car is running well, it's hard to say if there is any more meat on the bone.
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Old 08-22-2016, 07:16 AM   #3
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I followed an mpt guide on what to log and how to. So I did a 3rd gear pull and a 1st through 3rd pull. Still looks like Greek to me though.

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Old 08-22-2016, 08:19 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by AKDMB View Post
I can read them and I know Voltwings could. I am tuning my car with HP Tuners (still learning, definitely know my way around though), so I forget a lot of the specifics in SCT, but these videos should teach you a lot.

Here is a very good video on how to datalog by Shaun @ AED
https://youtu.be/ZvrVJwthRAE

Here is a video on reading datalogs, also courtesy of Shaun @ AED
https://youtu.be/AaQiKYbYksg

These are the basics, you can pick up most of the details from just practicing taking datalogs.

You can definitely tell how safe the tune is by taking a datalog, as far as power on the table, that's really subjective (if that's the right word). There's no telling what your combination likes without a dyno. You can look and see if fueling is accurate, if the car is knocking or is adding significant timing, but outside of making sure the car is running well, it's hard to say if there is any more meat on the bone.
Let me know what you think of HPTUNERS vs sct, I am considering a change. I am having a serious issue with getting a tuner to help minimize the time the PCM takes to command a low throttle plate angle on lift. The log shows a 2.5 second delay between lift and commanded position change to the throttle body. This is causing me to not have a consistent vacuum booster, which gets exciting on track. If HPTUNERS can't solve it, I may have to go standalone.

Every single 3.7 and 5.0 I have instructed in does this (same PCM issue), regardless of who tuned it (the factory tune is by far the worst though).
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:17 PM   #5
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Let me know what you think of HPTUNERS vs sct, I am considering a change. I am having a serious issue with getting a tuner to help minimize the time the PCM takes to command a low throttle plate angle on lift. The log shows a 2.5 second delay between lift and commanded position change to the throttle body. This is causing me to not have a consistent vacuum booster, which gets exciting on track. If HPTUNERS can't solve it, I may have to go standalone.

Every single 3.7 and 5.0 I have instructed in does this (same PCM issue), regardless of who tuned it (the factory tune is by far the worst though).
I honestly don't know. Road Course/Autocross tuning sounds like an entirely different ballgame. I have only tuned with HP Tuners, and I am just doing this on my own as a learning experience. Maybe make a post on a Boss 302 Forum or the like where plenty of people track their cars

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Originally Posted by 2012MCA View Post
I followed an mpt guide on what to log and how to. So I did a 3rd gear pull and a 1st through 3rd pull. Still looks like Greek to me though.

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Looking at what they say to log, ignoring the environment portion...

Fuel

Lambse Bank 1 - Commanded Lambda, or Commanded Fueling for Bank 1 of the motor, or one side of the motor. This is the fueling that the car is commanding. I am not sure if you are familiar with the difference between Air Fuel Ratio and Lambda, but forget Air Fuel Ratio on these cars. Not gonna get into it too much here, but there is a lot of info on it out there. I can explain it more in detail if you would like. All modern fords (2011+) are lambda based. You should see a Lambse of anywhere from .873 to .822 lambda on these cars at WOT, can't say what Steeda is commanding, but it will fall somewhere between this range. These cars either command 1.00 lambda or they revert to the WOT Lambda Table.

Here is the WOT Lambda Table on the factory tune as a reference.
Click image for larger version

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Changing the order slightly for clarity

Measured AFR Bank 1 and Bank 2 - This is the measured lambda, or what the wideband oxygen sensors are reading. These are kind of mislabeled, because this PID is reporting lambda, not afr. Again, you can see Bank 1 and Bank 2 to see how the measured lambda, differs from side to side. A large difference here can point to a fuel distribution issue, or an oxygen sensor issue. This goes for any parameter here that gets measured Bank 1 and 2, it's all about seeing the difference from side to side.


Short Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 and Bank 2 - This is the instant fueling correction for both banks, both sides of the motor. Referred to as STFT for short.
STFT = (Measured Lambda) / (Commanded Lambda)
So this is the instantaneous fueling correction the car is having to make to get to commanded lambda. These are very erratic, and change quickly, mine always seem to act weird after a flash. These can be erratic at times, but during normal driving they shouldn't be more than plus or minus 10%, or from .90 to 1.10 in the SCT LiveLink Software.

Long Term Fuel Trim Bank 1 and 2 - This is the learned STFT. So lets say that at idle, the car commands 1.00 lambda, but ends up with 0.95 lambda, the STFT would be .95 or the car would be pulling 5% fuel. If this condition persists, then the car would move this over to the Long Term Fuel Trims or LTFT. So the car has a consistent issue meeting desired fueling at idle, so it decides to make a semi-permanent adjustment. It zeroes out the STFT and then moves the correction over to the LTFT. The STFT becomes zero and the LTFT goes to 0.95. So from now on at idle, the car will pull 5% fuel at idle. Again, just the average of the STFT's. The magnitude of the fuel trims indicates the accuracy of the tune, more specifically the airflow model and the MAF Curve. High (high in magnitude, not one specific way or the other) fuel trims could be due to a mechanical issue such as a vacuum leak, or a bad injector, etc, it could literally be anything related to airflow or fuel delivery. STFT = Instant correction, bounces around a lot. LTFT = Historical correction, takes time to generate, usually lower than STFT's and more stable.

MAF

MAF Flow rate in lb/min - This is the amount of air the motor is moving. The rule of thumb is (lb/min) x 10 = Crank Horsepower. This parameter is a good indicator of how much power the car is making and is important in dialing in fueling.

MAF Frequency - This is used to dial in the MAF Curve. The MAF Curve's in HP Tuners files are measured in period (microseconds) not hz so I guess SCT Tuners do a conversion from hz to period somewhere else in LiveLink or SCT Tuning Software is setup differently. By logging some kind of frequency and fuel trims, you can tune the MAF curve. 2015 3.7 use a MAP sensor, so it's not applicable on those cars.

MISCELLANEOUS

Load - This is the amount of load the car is under, 1.00 being 100% load. This is referenced a bunch in various tables in the tune. I hope you have a good concept of load. A car can be under more load at 2000rpm going up a hill in 6th gear then 3500rpm cruising at part throttle in 3rd.

Octane Adjust Ratio- I have no idea, someone let me know more about this please. I have heard references to this in Cobb Tuning on newer mustangs, maybe Voltwings could tell us.

Torque Source - This references some various behaviors that these cars have. There are several different torque sources. In Live Link software this is numbered. In HP Tuners software they are actually called out by name, a lot easier to look at. With LiveLink, look at the number and reference this chart. These PCM's are torque based, and these are various actions the PCM can take. If you spin the tires and the throttle closes, it should register Torque Source 2 or Traction Control. During normal driving, it should register Torque Source 0 or Driver Demand. Watching Torque Source helps if you are worried about torque management intervening during WOT, or whenever. You might see Target N at idle, Tip Out Limit or Torque Based Decel during decel. Again various situations that the PCM is responding to with either specific throttle, fueling or spark actions.

* 0 - Driver Demand
** 1 - Transmission torque truncation
** 2 - Traction Control
** 3 - Vehicle Speed Limiting
** 4 - Engine Speed Limiting
** 5 - Anticlunk Tipin torque limiting or Tipin rate limiting
** 6 - Tipout torque
** 7 - Transmission Shift Modulation
** 8 - Engine Oil Over temperature
** 9 - Target N
** 10 - Powertrain Limiting Protection FMEM Limit
** 11 - ETC FMEM - RPM Guard
** 12 - PATS
** 13 - OSCMOD
** 14 - Speed Control
** 15 - Transfer Case Torque Limit
** 16 - Torque Based Decel
** 17 - VDE
** 18 - Engine Indicated Torque Limit
** 19 - Engine Combustion Stability Torque Limit
** 20 - HEV Torque Reduction at engine start or stop
** 21 - HEV Tipout Torque Reduction

List Courtesy of SultanHassanMasTuning, on HP Tuners Forum

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-Torque-Source


Spark

Knock Sensor - These cars have knock sensors, or microphones trained to the frequency of detonation. If this PID reports Positive Values then it is hearing knock and pulling timing. If this PID reports Negative Values then it is hearing no knock and advancing timing. Knock or Detonation is a pressure spike during combustion AFTER the spark plug fires. Knock can hurt the motor. Not a huge issue on lower power NA cars, but catastrophic on high power forced induction cars. Knock ultimately represents the limit of safe combustion, if you reach it, back off, pull timing, add fuel, whatever you have to do to get away from it.

Spark Advance- Degrees of crank rotation before Top Dead Center that the spark plug fires. There is plenty of info on this online. You should see from the mid teens to mid twenties as far as spark goes on these cars. I am in the process of dialing this in on my car. I would say around 30 or so degrees is really getting up there on these cars. Again as long as you are avoiding knock you are good.

Throttle
Throttle Position- 81 Degrees is WOT, otherwise, pretty much explanatory.

Ignoring the Transmission stuff, don't know hardly anything about this

Variable Camshaft

Variable Valve Timing Exhaust Bank 1 Actual - This is controlling the Exhaust Valve Closing in degrees of crank angle. We have an advantage here over a traditional small block or something, we can move our cam timing around for best power. The exhaust cam timing on the 3.7 confuses me, it is the opposite of the 5.0. Typically you advance the exhaust cam with rpm, you open it later with rpm. All of this makes sense if you look at the stock cam specs and do the math. Here is the stock WOT exhaust cam timing table on the 3.7
Click image for larger version

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Variable Valve Timing Intake Bank 1 Actual - This is controlling the Intake Valve Opening in degrees of crank angle. This makes sense a little more sense than the exhaust cam timing. The negative values are retarding the intake cam or opening the intake valve sooner down low for better torque and later up top for better power. Here is the stock WOT intake cam timing table on the 3.7
Click image for larger version

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That's everything pretty much, take some time, look over the log. Make sure the car is meeting commanded fueling at WOT, make sure that it isn't knocking or having to add too much fuel at WOT ( indicated by large positive fuel trims). It just takes time to get used to navigating the software and viewing different data. Good Luck! Ask some more questions if you want or link to the datalog for others to look at, this will help the most.
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Old 08-22-2016, 04:57 PM   #6
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What an informative write up.

Thank you....wish I knew more about tuning lol
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:46 AM   #7
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Sorry for the very late response, school this semester has been kicking my ***, and i just came across this thread.

The Octane Adjust Ratio is how the ecu adjusts timing based on knock.
In a nutshell, when everything is running well the computer will add timing, and when it is not it will pull timing. This should not be confused with Knock ****** in and of itself.

The fun answer is that the OAR is a multiplier, with -1.0 adding timing, and +1.0 pulling timing. The OAR is a multiplier as i said, and it references an offset table with negative values. This allows a single table to be used for both adding and pulling timing.

When the computer is running well and not experiencing knock, it will start adjusting the OAR from its starting 0.0 setting towards -1.0. What this will do is multiply the OAR by the offset table and add timing => negative x negative = positive.
When the computer is experiencing sub optimal conditions, it will adjust the OAR from the static 0.0 towards 1.0 to pull timing => positive x negative = negative.

So say the OAR has adjusted to -.5 and the referenced cell of the offset table has an offset value of -2.0, you would take -.5 X -.2 and the computer will add 1* of timing at that particular point.
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Old 10-04-2016, 05:53 PM   #8
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Sorry for the very late response, school this semester has been kicking my ***, and i just came across this thread.

The Octane Adjust Ratio is how the ecu adjusts timing based on knock.
In a nutshell, when everything is running well the computer will add timing, and when it is not it will pull timing. This should not be confused with Knock ****** in and of itself.

The fun answer is that the OAR is a multiplier, with -1.0 adding timing, and +1.0 pulling timing. The OAR is a multiplier as i said, and it references an offset table with negative values. This allows a single table to be used for both adding and pulling timing.

When the computer is running well and not experiencing knock, it will start adjusting the OAR from its starting 0.0 setting towards -1.0. What this will do is multiply the OAR by the offset table and add timing => negative x negative = positive.
When the computer is experiencing sub optimal conditions, it will adjust the OAR from the static 0.0 towards 1.0 to pull timing => positive x negative = negative.

So say the OAR has adjusted to -.5 and the referenced cell of the offset table has an offset value of -2.0, you would take -.5 X -.2 and the computer will add 1* of timing at that particular point.
Thanks for the reply. I think this only applies to the Ecoboost models. Here's a Focus RS file vs. a 3.7 V6 File. I have gotten my car to add more timing just by adjusting the Knock Advance Limit Table. If the car senses no knock it will advance the timing up to this limit. The RS file has a whole lot of parameters pertaining to learned knock advance/R3t@rd

3.7 Mustang
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Focus RS
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ID:	205458
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Old 10-04-2016, 07:22 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by AKDMB View Post
Thanks for the reply. I think this only applies to the Ecoboost models. Here's a Focus RS file vs. a 3.7 V6 File. I have gotten my car to add more timing just by adjusting the Knock Advance Limit Table. If the car senses no knock it will advance the timing up to this limit. The RS file has a whole lot of parameters pertaining to learned knock advance/R3t@rd

3.7 Mustang
Attachment 205459

Focus RS
Attachment 205458
It is possible, i am making assumptions here, but i would not be surprised if those tables worked in tandem.

For example, the "Knock advance limit" table you mentioned is probably the maximum timing allowed to be added based on the OAR table(s).
For example:
OAR of -.5
Offset table of -2.0*
Timing to be adjusted by +1.0*
-Reference knock advance limit table and find a max advance of .5*, so only .5* is added. If you adjust the table like you mention, it would then let it add the full degree. That is my assumption based on what i am seeing.

Also, a lot of the tables on the RS and 3.7 are the same, the RS just has some redundant tables. The max tables are something we use as well, and really i dont see the point. Basically they just turn off the knock sensor after a certain point to prevent chatter in the drivetrain from registering as false knock, but i've never seen it happen on any tunes. I guess the factory has to tune for anyone and everyone though haha.

You're really making me want to pick up HPtuners for the 3.7 though, it looks like a very well laid out program based on the screen shots you're putting up.
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