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Old 12-29-2016, 07:50 PM   #36
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Power adder cars are a different story. Remember these are just cars with different intakes and maybe a header at best, not gonna have a blower. With a power adder you will have to mess with plug gap, throttlebody tuning, injector tuning, BAP's , torque model tuning as well as opening yourself up to 100000 potential vacuum leaks and so on and so forth. No datalogging will be needed with these cars, not saying I wouldn't check it, but certainly not required to make the car run right like it would on a power adder car. I've tuned my 3.7, the tune is 95% there already, you're just improving on a stock tune to find power, not changing 500 tables like you are in a power adder car just to make the car idle and drive right.The issues you would run across would worst case be a vacuum leak from an improperly installed intake.

I completely understand what your saying. I don't think I would street tune a power adder car either, I would take it to a dyno.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:41 PM   #37
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The quality of the dyno and operator can also be called into question. I had a car i was tuning that i dialed in on the street for a guy, 28 psi, give or take 500 whp and car was ripping (this is a turbo 4 cylinder mind you). He goes to the dyno and the dyno isnt loaded properly, car is barely making 24-25 psi and only around 460 whp.

Now, imagine that situation the other way around. Imagine i dialed him in to a "safe" ~450 whp on that dyno, and then he goes out on the street and is making 50-60 more whp and pops his motor.

I am not against dynos by any means, i am just pointing out that no one way is perfect, but at least on a street tune you're getting "real world." Also, i understand it is not possible for everyone, but go to the drag strip and you can get a 3rd gear pull in. Start, immediately shift to 2nd, 3rd, then just do your pull through the traps.
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Old 12-29-2016, 08:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by FirstGeneration View Post
For me specifically, I am trying to data log on the street then send it to VMP. The data isn't enough to understand. "It's not enough for me to even begin to determine what the problem is..." No dice. Data logging on a dyno. Send it to VMP. Scratch head. "It could be this..." No dice. You know that money I saved because it was a *free* email tune? I ended up spending more than a local tuner would have charged just to data log on multiple dyno runs in order to get data which ultimately yielded nothing. So here I have a VMP kit that Justin couldn't tune. If I were local to VMP I am sure it would have been different.

I am speaking from personal experience. I am not saying that email tunes are trash. They can work; however, given my experience and other peoples experiences, my suggestion will always be to find a local reputable tuner that also installs at the same place. I realize that is not possible everywhere and email tunes alleviate that. But when you need help, email tunes can be painful.
So my question is why couldn't Justin tune your car? Did you have too many mods in it for their method to work? Were you asking for a radical tune that was right on the cutting edge of what your engine could produce?

I've got a CAI and Borla catback. I'm not planning to change injectors or cams. I doubt I'll even change the throttle body. I just want to make my automatic shift better (had to trade my manual this past summer due to an ankle injury). When I had my 2014 with a manual, I really didn't care to spend the money for a tune, but this automatic needs some readjusting and, as long as I'm spending the money, I might was well get some hp and T out of it.
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Old 12-29-2016, 09:41 PM   #39
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Anyone remember Alefire? Dyno tune diaster.

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Old 12-30-2016, 12:15 AM   #40
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So my question is why couldn't Justin tune your car? Did you have too many mods in it for their method to work? Were you asking for a radical tune that was right on the cutting edge of what your engine could produce?
It was the VMP GenII Stage 2 kit. 82mm pulley, 47lb injectors. Standard fanfare. The only other mods I had was a Roush CIA, Magnaflow Competition Catback, and a tune from MidAtlantic performance.

Even if you wish to consider that Mike Roush's tune from MAP *could* have caused an issue with VMPs tune, I couldn't get enough data at first.

As soon as I hit 4500 RPM the would be a sudden loss of power and the knock, dude the knock, was terrible. So much so, that I stopped the second pull and sent my data to VMP. I am not blowing up my engine. It wasn't enough for Justin to diagnose. I had no choice but to find a local shop to tune and diagnose. The local shop here initially worked with VMP to retune it and there was always a l continued to use a dyno to data log under safer and a more controlled environment. There were suggestions to try: gapping the plugs smaller, boost a pump, throttle body position. Nothing solved the problem.

After 9 months of researching forums, talking to other local guys, spending over $1200 for 1) a initial re-tune (I had pay the local shop for dyno time and tune even though they talked to VMP, its still the local shop's time and effort) and 2) dyno pulls for data logs...I said screw it. I found a local tuner with experience with Mustangs. At the end of the day? Bad catalytic converters. A tip on this forum helped point me in that direction too. I went from ~475 RWHP to 600 RWHP peak after Kooks long tubes and offroad x-pipe. I ended up spending $3500 more than what I expected.

Now, I don't blame VMP. Things happen. Every car is different. Cars age. Another guy who had the '13 GT had to upgrade to ID1000s because the 47lbers didn't work for him. Yet it is still a 5.0 with VMPs GenII Stage 2 kit. Because racecar, I guess. I had to cut my losses and find someone local, and thank god I did. I was frustrated with 9 months of headaches and the additional money I spent.

If I lived in Florida, you bet your bottom dollar I would have driven to VMP directly. I am willing to bet Justin would have had an easier time diagnosing with my car in hand. And that is the crux of my criticism of email tunes.

And honestly, from my line of work I know EXACTLY the problems with diagnosing remotely. It gets to the point that I ask my customers to send me their design or I ask my boss to fly me to the customer's site. There is only so much you can do over phone and email.
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