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Old 10-16-2017, 11:32 AM   #36
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So there's a lower and upper intake manifold? I'm trying to understand this because I watched a video of a guy who did the swap to his 13-14 S197 and he was saying you feel a slight better torque curve in the beginning to mid range.
Yes, the upper section with the plenum removes so you can change the spark plugs on the passenger side bank. The lower manifold has a massive water jacket running right through the center of it, so obviously you dont want to deal with coolant every time the manifold needs to come off.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:45 PM   #37
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Yes, the upper section with the plenum removes so you can change the spark plugs on the passenger side bank. The lower manifold has a massive water jacket running right through the center of it, so obviously you dont want to deal with coolant every time the manifold needs to come off.

What would be your actual gains from porting the top manifold?
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Old 10-16-2017, 02:43 PM   #38
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Ideally in any circumstance the thought process behind porting is more flow = more power.

At low speeds you want a small runner to keep the air speed up. This makes good torque but struggles at high rpm as the small runner becomes a restriction for the volume of air. Consequently, large runners that flow lots of air at the top end result in slow, lazy air at low rpms - this is the reason butterflys exist, the artificially make the runner smaller to keep velocity up.
Fun fact, the same applies to exhaust headers so dont ever let anyone tell you exhausts like back pressure because they certainly do not, they like velocity.

So, this is why i am struggling to see low rpm torque gains with a larger runner manifold ... granted, changes in plenum volume and the magic of VVT may very well make this possible, but it's something i would like to look more into.

I'm over complicating this for you, but typically ported manifolds = more power.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:04 PM   #39
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Ideally in any circumstance the thought process behind porting is more flow = more power.

At low speeds you want a small runner to keep the air speed up. This makes good torque but struggles at high rpm as the small runner becomes a restriction for the volume of air. Consequently, large runners that flow lots of air at the top end result in slow, lazy air at low rpms - this is the reason butterflys exist, the artificially make the runner smaller to keep velocity up.
Fun fact, the same applies to exhaust headers so dont ever let anyone tell you exhausts like back pressure because they certainly do not, they like velocity.

So, this is why i am struggling to see low rpm torque gains with a larger runner manifold ... granted, changes in plenum volume and the magic of VVT may very well make this possible, but it's something i would like to look more into.

I'm over complicating this for you, but typically ported manifolds = more power
.
I think this last part is ultimately why the s550 intake shows gains, it's basically a factory ported upper (relative to the 11-14 upper).
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:14 PM   #40
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Ideally in any circumstance the thought process behind porting is more flow = more power.

At low speeds you want a small runner to keep the air speed up. This makes good torque but struggles at high rpm as the small runner becomes a restriction for the volume of air. Consequently, large runners that flow lots of air at the top end result in slow, lazy air at low rpms - this is the reason butterflys exist, the artificially make the runner smaller to keep velocity up.
Fun fact, the same applies to exhaust headers so dont ever let anyone tell you exhausts like back pressure because they certainly do not, they like velocity.

So, this is why i am struggling to see low rpm torque gains with a larger runner manifold ... granted, changes in plenum volume and the magic of VVT may very well make this possible, but it's something i would like to look more into.

I'm over complicating this for you, but typically ported manifolds = more power.

Well I'm understanding how this is going so far. I knew porting meant adding more air flow into the motor thus causing a better air to fuel ratio. The only thing is I'm not sure what the runner is. Is that the hole in the manifold to allow air flow to the motor?

Also what modifications would you need for an S550 intake for the S197?
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:25 PM   #41
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I think this last part is ultimately why the s550 intake shows gains, it's basically a factory ported upper (relative to the 11-14 upper).
Now that i think about it being a two piece design, they could have simply optimized the flow between the two. Reducing any sort of turbulence would increase velocity, so i'm becoming more ok with this now, as that makes more sense.

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Well I'm understanding how this is going so far. I knew porting meant adding more air flow into the motor thus causing a better air to fuel ratio. The only thing is I'm not sure what the runner is. Is that the hole in the manifold to allow air flow to the motor?

Also what modifications would you need for an S550 intake for the S197?
Not quite, the air fuel ratio is determined by the MAF sensor in the intake. If the manifold allows the engine to flow more air, that additional air will come in the intake and the MAF sensor will know to add more fuel accordingly. I'm sure you knew that, but your wording made it sound like the ported manifold increases airflow independently of fuel, which isnt quite true.

The Plenum is the large "space" of the intake manifold after the throttle body, the port is where the air exits the intake manifold and enters the cylinder head (or in this case, the lower manifold), and the runner is the section of the intake manifold between the plenum and the port.

As far as what it takes, literally no idea, probably going to have to hope he ^^ or someone else can answer that. Or google it. I'm all for research, as you have no idea if anyone on the internet is an idiot or not and is giving you bad advice haha.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:39 PM   #42
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Not quite, the air fuel ratio is determined by the MAF sensor in the intake. If the manifold allows the engine to flow more air, that additional air will come in the intake and the MAF sensor will know to add more fuel accordingly. I'm sure you knew that, but your wording made it sound like the ported manifold increases airflow independently of fuel, which isnt quite true.



The Plenum is the large "space" of the intake manifold after the throttle body, the port is where the air exits the intake manifold and enters the cylinder head (or in this case, the lower manifold), and the runner is the section of the intake manifold between the plenum and the port.



As far as what it takes, literally no idea, probably going to have to hope he ^^ or someone else can answer that. Or google it. I'm all for research, as you have no idea if anyone on the internet is an idiot or not and is giving you bad advice haha.

Yeah that's where I was trying to go with it, I was looking at it forces more into the motor but it is controlled along with the fuel to balance how much fuel goes with the air into the motor to give it balance the motor can handle.

Also thank you for explaining which part of the intake was which, I was confused when you guys were using different names for the parts of the intake.

I saw a guy's intake swap, but he didn't show how they did it and what they used. All I know is they used the S550 intake and had a custom intake made to fit the intake manifold.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:41 PM   #43
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Find a local from a facebook group, or member of this forum, and take y'alls cars apart and see what's up.
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Old 10-16-2017, 04:27 PM   #44
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The easiest way to make it work is with the stock air box with an airraid modular intake tube or a steeda cai. You need to rotate the pipe between airbox and TB 180* to compensate for the difference in throttle body mounting location. Going to be hard to make your airraid intake work with the molded tube design.

Other than that you just need to do a little customization to the pcv lines because the passenger side on the upper is in a little different location and the driver's side depending how you make the connection to the intake.

I've done the research to make it work but haven't had time with a 5 month old to make it happen.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:00 PM   #45
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Update on my build: The carbon driveshaft could not be ordered so I am planning on going with aluminum instead of carbon fiber and I'm planning to order a set of long tube hooker headers black hearts.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:57 PM   #46
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I have Aluminum Lightweight Driveshaft and it's Flawless, not one problem at all and it was much less than Carbon Fiber. Long Tubes and Off road X-Pipe.
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:11 AM   #47
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I have Aluminum Lightweight Driveshaft and it's Flawless, not one problem at all and it was much less than Carbon Fiber. Long Tubes and Off road X-Pipe.

Awesome! I really want one cause I feel the two piece I have is getting weaker every time I push the car so I think I have to upgrade soon. The shop I was ordering the driveshaft though just told me last week the carbon fiber driveshaft was more expensive than he expected and that was after a full month of waiting for the part. How do you like the X-pipe? I was thinking about an H-pipe but I dont know I'm still up in the air on both. Is there a real performance gain with off road pipes compared to regular pipping?
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Old 10-28-2017, 01:54 AM   #48
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Yes, with the Off road you need to Re-Tune your car. X-Pipe advantages are for High RPM's performance, H-Pipe for Lower RPM stuff. Meaning when they kick into their Power Band. Take off stuff as opposed to very High Speed stuff. And the Sound is a little different. H-Pipe may give a more deep Classic Hot Rod Sound, X-Pipe a higher Sound. I probably should have gone with the H pipe instead of the X pipe. Who really gets into the Higher RPM bands anyway, but the Lower bands you see/hear everyday in city traffic. Oh-yeah, Off-road means you don't Cats on your Car, If your State has Emissions then you will have a problem.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:21 AM   #49
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Difference between X and H is negligible, like a 2-3 whp difference. Get the H because it will sound a hell of a lot better.
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:26 AM   #50
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Update on my build: The carbon driveshaft could not be ordered so I am planning on going with aluminum instead of carbon fiber and I'm planning to order a set of long tube hooker headers black hearts.
My BBK ceramic coated long tube headers seem to be going to burn through in a year or two . I've been checking out the Hooker black heart long tubes also. I can't find a catted or a off road x pipe for them to see how much they cost. I wonder if my BBK catted shorty x pipe will work with the Hooker's? Just thinking out loud . The Hookers look real good plus they are stainless steel
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Old 10-28-2017, 11:53 AM   #51
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Yes, with the Off road you need to Re-Tune your car. X-Pipe advantages are for High RPM's performance, H-Pipe for Lower RPM stuff. Meaning when they kick into their Power Band. Take off stuff as opposed to very High Speed stuff. And the Sound is a little different. H-Pipe may give a more deep Classic Hot Rod Sound, X-Pipe a higher Sound. I probably should have gone with the H pipe instead of the X pipe. Who really gets into the Higher RPM bands anyway, but the Lower bands you see/hear everyday in city traffic. Oh-yeah, Off-road means you don't Cats on your Car, If your State has Emissions then you will have a problem.

Is there like a major difference though with off-road pipping rather than just doing a custom h-pipe as far as performance? I know with off-road pipes you have more of the popping sound when you let off the throttle and you don't really have the ability to run cats unless you fit them on, but what's the difference after that? I do prefer the sound of the H-pipe over the X-pipe, it has a deeper aggressive tone over the x-pipe which gives it more of the European/Import sound. I do live in an emission state, but can't I just have a muffler shop make a flank for cats and a pipe so I can switch them out for when I need emissions?
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:07 PM   #52
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Difference between X and H is negligible, like a 2-3 whp difference. Get the H because it will sound a hell of a lot better.

Would the x-pipe work better with future mods to the motor over the h-pipe or would it still be the same no matter what?
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Old 10-28-2017, 12:13 PM   #53
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My BBK ceramic coated long tube headers seem to be going to burn through in a year or two . I've been checking out the Hooker black heart long tubes also. I can't find a catted or a off road x pipe for them to see how much they cost. I wonder if my BBK catted shorty x pipe will work with the Hooker's? Just thinking out loud . The Hookers look real good plus they are stainless steel

The only reason I've been iffy about Hooker Black Hearts is because I haven't seen anyone use them so I don't know what they sound like. An exhaust shop could probably put something to where both would fit right on. Hooker does have a whole exhaust system made for our cars but it's an x-pipe set up with either straight pipe or mufflers for behind the rear axle. Yeah the stainless steel metal is what caught my eye when choosing those cause it's a more sturdy material so it would potentially last a lot longer.
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:01 PM   #54
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The only reason I've been iffy about Hooker Black Hearts is because I haven't seen anyone use them so I don't know what they sound like. An exhaust shop could probably put something to where both would fit right on. Hooker does have a whole exhaust system made for our cars but it's an x-pipe set up with either straight pipe or mufflers for behind the rear axle. Yeah the stainless steel metal is what caught my eye when choosing those cause it's a more sturdy material so it would potentially last a lot longer.
Borla sells stainless steel long tubes with a off road x pipe, together for a little over $1,000. They don't sell a catted x pipe so I would have to have all of my tunes changed. Hooker sells a catted x pipe but the headers and catted x pipe is like $1,600-$1,700. I guess I'm stuck with replacing my BBK ceramic coated long tubes with a new set of BBK ceramic coated long tubes for $600 when the time comes
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Old 10-28-2017, 02:44 PM   #55
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Borla sells stainless steel long tubes with a off road x pipe, together for a little over $1,000. They don't sell a catted x pipe so I would have to have all of my tunes changed. Hooker sells a catted x pipe but the headers and catted x pipe is like $1,600-$1,700. I guess I'm stuck with replacing my BBK ceramic coated long tubes with a new set of BBK ceramic coated long tubes for $600 when the time comes

Yeah I heard about the borla system and that's a pretty good deal for a set of Borla headers with the X pipe. Hooker's set up is pretty expensive, that's why I'm planning on just getting the headers and using other companies h-pipes or just having an exhaust shop make one for me to work with the headers.
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Old 10-28-2017, 03:54 PM   #56
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Im not totally sold on the s550 upper. I do see the potential in it. But I like the top end of the s197. Considering the numbers I made with a ported s197 upper and lower ill stick with it. But honestly a ported intake is a good route to go. As is full exhaust. Personally Im running the 15+ performance pack 4 piston 14" calipers with some russell lines and dot4 fluid and theyve worked great! Especially compared to the weak oem 12.6" brakes on the standard (non performance pack) cars.
I honestly dont see a worthwhile gain from a carbon fiber drive shaft. Nor do I see much of a gain in going with a wildwood setup for the cost. I have less than 600 bucks in my brake setup which also includes a shelby 14" rear brake conversion (though still need to swap to the shelby booster). Honestly for a car thats going to see track time I recommend the brake upgrade along with ported/polished heads that have been port matched to the intake and throttle body. Also obviously recommend an mpt tune over a bama tune lol
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Old 10-28-2017, 04:51 PM   #57
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Im not totally sold on the s550 upper. I do see the potential in it. But I like the top end of the s197. Considering the numbers I made with a ported s197 upper and lower ill stick with it. But honestly a ported intake is a good route to go. As is full exhaust. Personally Im running the 15+ performance pack 4 piston 14" calipers with some russell lines and dot4 fluid and theyve worked great! Especially compared to the weak oem 12.6" brakes on the standard (non performance pack) cars.
I honestly dont see a worthwhile gain from a carbon fiber drive shaft. Nor do I see much of a gain in going with a wildwood setup for the cost. I have less than 600 bucks in my brake setup which also includes a shelby 14" rear brake conversion (though still need to swap to the shelby booster). Honestly for a car thats going to see track time I recommend the brake upgrade along with ported/polished heads that have been port matched to the intake and throttle body. Also obviously recommend an mpt tune over a bama tune lol

Well I've been holding off on the intake swap and just thinking I'll hold off on that. I wanted to upgrade the headers on my car cause I felt as though that's one of the big performance upgrades for the 3.7 . The H-pipe is more for sound with some upgrade in the power. My brakes I paid $3500 for the installation and parts. The brakes I have on it stop on a dime. 60-0 was 5 seconds without slamming the brakes all the way down having the ABS kick in. For me it's not about having the biggest rotors or calipers. I wanted a great performance brake that I know is gonna stop my car and get the biggest bite on those brakes. Upgrading rear brakes help take tension off the front brakes, but I would of taken the Shelby front brakes because that's where the most of the braking is on the vehicle. Then again isn't the GT500 brakes just upgrade Brembo brakes? I honestly prefer these brakes for what I do going around the mountains here. At the end of the week, I always look at my front wheels and it's covered in brake dust. Plus the drivers here make me thankful for having these brakes. I've been thinking about switching to MPT over Bama since they offer the 3 tunes, but I was gonna wait till I get my headers.
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:23 PM   #58
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Would the x-pipe work better with future mods to the motor over the h-pipe or would it still be the same no matter what?
Until your HP figure starts with a 5 or 6 it's not near enough to matter, and even then you're talking 10 whp?
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Old 10-28-2017, 07:47 PM   #59
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Until your HP figure starts with a 5 or 6 it's not near enough to matter, and even then you're talking 10 whp?

Yeah I figured it wouldn't be that much of a difference.
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:13 AM   #60
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Well I've been holding off on the intake swap and just thinking I'll hold off on that. I wanted to upgrade the headers on my car cause I felt as though that's one of the big performance upgrades for the 3.7 . The H-pipe is more for sound with some upgrade in the power. My brakes I paid $3500 for the installation and parts. The brakes I have on it stop on a dime. 60-0 was 5 seconds without slamming the brakes all the way down having the ABS kick in. For me it's not about having the biggest rotors or calipers. I wanted a great performance brake that I know is gonna stop my car and get the biggest bite on those brakes. Upgrading rear brakes help take tension off the front brakes, but I would of taken the Shelby front brakes because that's where the most of the braking is on the vehicle. Then again isn't the GT500 brakes just upgrade Brembo brakes? I honestly prefer these brakes for what I do going around the mountains here. At the end of the week, I always look at my front wheels and it's covered in brake dust. Plus the drivers here make me thankful for having these brakes. I've been thinking about switching to MPT over Bama since they offer the 3 tunes, but I was gonna wait till I get my headers.
I think all together front to back including stainless brake lines and reflashing the car so it actually knows it has larger brakes I ran about 750 bucks. The 07-12 I believe front GT500 brakes are essentially the same as brembo's even use the 11-14 brembo front rotor. The 13-14 rear brakes are a good deal larger than standard v6/gt/boss. As far as brake dust Im using the oem 15+ gt pads and havent had any issue with brake dust. As far as brake performance well the first time after I installed them and had to do an emergency stop I was absolutely shocked by how quickly the car came to a halt. But also that the brakes were completely fine after it and acted like I had just came down from 75 to 0!
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Old 10-29-2017, 08:27 AM   #61
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I think all together front to back including stainless brake lines and reflashing the car so it actually knows it has larger brakes I ran about 750 bucks. The 07-12 I believe front GT500 brakes are essentially the same as brembo's even use the 11-14 brembo front rotor. The 13-14 rear brakes are a good deal larger than standard v6/gt/boss. As far as brake dust Im using the oem 15+ gt pads and havent had any issue with brake dust. As far as brake performance well the first time after I installed them and had to do an emergency stop I was absolutely shocked by how quickly the car came to a halt. But also that the brakes were completely fine after it and acted like I had just came down from 75 to 0!
Care to elaborate?
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Old 10-29-2017, 01:04 PM   #62
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Care to elaborate?
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Old 10-29-2017, 01:16 PM   #63
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Theres different performance calibrations. Even just from the PP 3.7s to base 3.7s. Base GT to Track pack GT's to GT500s. Part of these calibrations is for larger brakes and when the stability control abs and such kick in. All of that can be changed.
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Old 11-24-2017, 11:41 AM   #64
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Update:

Hooker Blackheart longtube headers were installed and I gotta say you definitely feel that kick in the higher rpms. The stainless steel bronze color after driving it always gives it a nice touch when looking in the engine bay. Did a cat-delete and she screams when turning her on at anytime. Now she has a nice rumble at idle and has a roar going down the road. Just need to get my mufflers adjusted so it stops vibrating against my bumper. Also still no driveshaft up until now.
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Old 11-24-2017, 04:20 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Theta671 View Post
Update:

Hooker Blackheart longtube headers were installed and I gotta say you definitely feel that kick in the higher rpms. The stainless steel bronze color after driving it always gives it a nice touch when looking in the engine bay. Did a cat-delete and she screams when turning her on at anytime. Now she has a nice rumble at idle and has a roar going down the road. Just need to get my mufflers adjusted so it stops vibrating against my bumper. Also still no driveshaft up until now.
Good for you I hope they last you a long time
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Little Red. 2011 V6. Automatic Trans., C&L CAI, JLT Catch Can, BBK Ceramic Coated Long Tube Headers with BBK Catted X Pipe, Axle Exchange (American Muscle) Aluminum DriveShaft, GT 500 Lower Control Arms, Koni (orange) Dampers, Steeda Watts Link, Ford Racing 3.73 Gears, Magnaflow Street Series Axle Backs and a few more mods....Wifes car, 2014 Ford Edge Limited.
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