E85 - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 02-03-2012, 06:33 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
Ravnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Region: Connecticut
Posts: 354
E85

I know it's been talked about. I found a station that sells E85 20 min away. What has to be done besides the tune to make it happen? I know they say it's good for like 30-40 rwhp
Ravnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-03-2012, 07:18 PM   #2
Road Trip!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,606
That 30-40whp depends on mods. On a bolt on car you might see 20whp. But really nothing besides tune to run it.
wnt2gofst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:27 PM   #3
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

You do know you will lose gas mileage, don't you?

It takes roughly twice as much alcohol to supply the same amount of power as gasoline does.
Also if your fuel system isn't up to the task, upgrades may have to be made in that area too.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-03-2012, 07:29 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
Ravnus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Region: Connecticut
Posts: 354
Bigger injectors?
Ravnus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-03-2012, 07:38 PM   #5
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravnus View Post
Bigger injectors?
Maybe or possibly a fuel pressure increase might do it and it's possible the stock system could handle it.
I'm not all that familiar with newer Mustangs, I just have some experience running alcohol fuel.


Another thing is that alcohol attracts moisture, so more frequent filter changes will probably be needed.
IMO, it's really best left to the multi-fuel vehicles, they are designed to handle and burn it.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2012, 12:38 PM   #6
Road Trip!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,606
Re: E85

The new 5.0's fuel system will handle running E85 on the stock injectors even. I know a few people been doing it for a while and no issuies. They also drive thier car 24/7. Less MPG will go down some. But I know here E85 is up to $1.10 cheaper a gallan then 93. SO it balances out really.

With a full bolt on car it will be a good idea to go to 42lb injectors. Guys with forced induction are running any where from 75-100lbs injectors. All depends on the boost really.
wnt2gofst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2012, 01:36 PM   #7
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

So they handle the moisture without any problems?
I know newer cars are designed to cope with small amounts (10% - 15%) of alcohol, but that concentration (up to 70% - 85%) is not small. I would be concerned about rust in the tank and lines and eroded fuel injector tips. Only the Flex-Fuel vehicles are truly designed to burn it.


Even at $1.10 a gallon cheaper it still takes almost twice the amount of fuel to develop the same amount of power.
The cost would have to be close to half or less than half before it would be a worthwhile effort wouldn't it?


I had considered trying to run it in my 86 GT once the SC is installed to keep the IAT's lower and reduce the chance of detonation, but the cost of a fuel system that would handle the E85 and the availability made it a cost prohibitive venture.


Instead, I now plan to use a methanol injection system that will inject the mixture right before the SC to help cool the SC and the compressed air coming from it. I can get more benefits from the alcohol in this manner without having to do any other fuel system upgrades. The alcohol is procured from a mixture of windshield washer concentrate and water. The concentrate can easily be purchased at you local auto parts store or Ford dealership.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2012, 10:36 PM   #8
Road Trip!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,606
What fuel system upgrades with E85? On stock engines with bigger injection tors and a bap people have and are running 16lbs boost. Try that on 93 and Meth and you will blow your engine. Handling just fine. Look at Joe coffeman's car. E85 ON 16LBS boost. Nothing but injectors and bap. Buddies full bolt manual nothing but injectors. AEM 5.0 nothing but injectores and tune. Fuel systems are great now.

E85 will use about 20% more fuel. The $1 cheaper makes up for that.
wnt2gofst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 03:02 AM   #9
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnt2gofst View Post
What fuel system upgrades with E85? On stock engines with bigger injection tors and a bap people have and are running 16lbs boost. Try that on 93 and Meth and you will blow your engine. Handling just fine. Look at Joe coffeman's car. E85 ON 16LBS boost. Nothing but injectors and bap. Buddies full bolt manual nothing but injectors. AEM 5.0 nothing but injectores and tune. Fuel systems are great now.

E85 will use about 20% more fuel. The $1 cheaper makes up for that.
On older cars any rubber fuel line any aluminum components and the tinned or galvanized metal fuel lines/tanks can cause problems when used with alcohol. They are also sized to small to deliver enough fuel at elevated HP levels. To safely use it in my car I would have to replace all of the fuel lines and likely the fuel tank as well. Not be able to afford that at the moment my only option was to try the methanol injection instead.


I don't think 16 lbs of boost would be any problem, IF my base short block could handle the power increase. I can tune the car with the PMS for almost any fuel mixture and boost level up to 30 psi. However, there are limits as I'm sure you know as to how much actual power that boost pressure may make with any given fuel. There are documented cases of the methanol injection adding from 60 - 90 HP on boosted engines and it works very well in helping prevent detonation.


I saw some vids of Joe's car. It's pretty freaking awesome.


Since the E85 is around 85% alcohol I figured the fuel consumption would be much higher. I guess the 15% gasoline has a bigger effect on it than I thought it might.


What is a BAP? It's not a term I am familiar with.


Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about this and helping me increase my knowledge of the newer Mustangs and their capabilities.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 10:33 AM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Napoleon85's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Region: Ohio
Posts: 3,045
Re: E85

BAP = Boost-a-Pump
__________________
Official Exhaust Thread Troller
Napoleon85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 10:42 AM   #11
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napoleon85 View Post
BAP = Boost-a-Pump
As many times as I have been on the Kenne Bell site I should have recognized that.
Thanks.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 11:24 AM   #12
Road Trip!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

On older cars any rubber fuel line any aluminum components and the tinned or galvanized metal fuel lines/tanks can cause problems when used with alcohol. They are also sized to small to deliver enough fuel at elevated HP levels. To safely use it in my car I would have to replace all of the fuel lines and likely the fuel tank as well. Not be able to afford that at the moment my only option was to try the methanol injection instead.

I don't think 16 lbs of boost would be any problem, IF my base short block could handle the power increase. I can tune the car with the PMS for almost any fuel mixture and boost level up to 30 psi. However, there are limits as I'm sure you know as to how much actual power that boost pressure may make with any given fuel. There are documented cases of the methanol injection adding from 60 - 90 HP on boosted engines and it works very well in helping prevent detonation.

I saw some vids of Joe's car. It's pretty freaking awesome.

Since the E85 is around 85% alcohol I figured the fuel consumption would be much higher. I guess the 15% gasoline has a bigger effect on it than I thought it might.

What is a BAP? It's not a term I am familiar with.

Thanks for taking the time to talk with me about this and helping me increase my knowledge of the newer Mustangs and their capabilities.
You also have to remember the new 5.0 engine is a high compression engine. Hence why it makes great power with little boost. That one reason don't want to push past 10-12 on just 93. This is why a lot guys are running e85 or race gas on higher boost. As I have seen cars do great with Meth injection. The ones I see gain 60-90 HP are running a stage 3 kit with a good shot. Why it works great you have make sure its full all the time. Kinda like nitrous. With E85 don't have worry about that.

Some people have switched to a different filter some haven't. Personal preference really. On this car I have no issue running e85 with out changing fuel system till I Max out fuel pump. Then upgrade the whole fuel system to a return system. I wouldn't run e85 on a stock fuel system of a 2010 prior as it isn't as good.
wnt2gofst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 12:24 PM   #13
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnt2gofst View Post
You also have to remember the new 5.0 engine is a high compression engine. Hence why it makes great power with little boost. That one reason don't want to push past 10-12 on just 93. This is why a lot guys are running e85 or race gas on higher boost. As I have seen cars do great with Meth injection. The ones I see gain 60-90 HP are running a stage 3 kit with a good shot. Why it works great you have make sure its full all the time. Kinda like nitrous. With E85 don't have worry about that.

Some people have switched to a different filter some haven't. Personal preference really. On this car I have no issue running e85 with out changing fuel system till I Max out fuel pump. Then upgrade the whole fuel system to a return system. I wouldn't run e85 on a stock fuel system of a 2010 prior as it isn't as good.
Yeah, I keep forgetting they are high compression.
Years ago they didn't think you could run forced induction on a high compression engine.
Maybe they couldn't with the technology they had then, but you sure can now.
I still see comments about it though, to which If I can remember, I can point out the new Mustangs.


On the filters, if they are available to fit or maybe one from a diesel engine could be adapted, they make a fuel filter with a water drain. That would go a long way toward assuaging my fears of water in the fuel.


I may have to give the E85 another think through for my car.
If I am able to continue on as I have planned, I want to eventually achieve a reliable 800-1000+ HP, pushrod engine in a street driven car. One of the criteria I have set for the project is that it be accomplished on fuel available at the pump. The E85 will probably enable me to accomplish that goal easier than using gasoline. With the next engine, which will hopefully be the one to accomplish this goal I plan to use a "mirrored" twin turbocharger system. That coupled with the E85 and a strong base engine should allow me to easily reach my desired HP level.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 05:22 PM   #14
Road Trip!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,606
Wanting to make that much power I would make sure to get forged internals and drop compression to 9.5:1. As people are running them with high compression limits of internals seem to be about 650whp on average and 16lbs boost. Also upgrade the oil pump gears.
wnt2gofst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 05:47 PM   #15
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnt2gofst View Post
Wanting to make that much power I would make sure to get forged internals and drop compression to 9.5:1. As people are running them with high compression limits of internals seem to be about 650whp on average and 16lbs boost. Also upgrade the oil pump gears.
I plan on using the Boss 351W block (pushrod, rated up to 1500 HP) with all forged internals bored/stroked to either 408 or 427 cubic inches. The compression ratio can be whatever I decide to go with as the engine is being assembled. I had thought to keep it in the 9 to 9.5:1 ratio area, so it will have decent power off boost too. The more power I make N/A, the less boost and heat buildup I will have to deal with I hope. The oil pump (probably a Mellings HV) will be clearanced, polished and then reassembled with lock wired fasteners.


Thanks for the advice.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 06:06 PM   #16
Road Trip!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Region: Texas
Posts: 3,606
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trojan Horse

I plan on using the Boss 351W block (pushrod, rated up to 1500 HP) with all forged internals bored/stroked to either 408 or 427 cubic inches. The compression ratio can be whatever I decide to go with as the engine is being assembled. I had thought to keep it in the 9 to 9.5:1 ratio area, so it will have decent power off boost too. The more power I make N/A, the less boost and heat buildup I will have to deal with I hope. The oil pump (probably a Mellings HV) will be clearanced, polished and then reassembled with lock wired fasteners.

Thanks for the advice.
Sounds like a strong build. Can't wait to see it.
wnt2gofst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2012, 06:25 PM   #17
Road Trip!
Supporter
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Region: Missouri
Posts: 8,779
Re: E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by wnt2gofst View Post
Sounds like a strong build. Can't wait to see it.
Me too.
At this point I'm still dealing with on the job injuries and recovering from operations.
I just found out the other day from my doctor that I will probably need 2-3 more operations to correct another blown disk between my shoulder blades and severe carpal tunnel in both wrists.
So my build is likely a year or two out yet.
Trojan Horse is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
1130whp / 1078wtq STREET CAR!!! Precision 8285, E85. Dynosheet inside... StevenStarke 1996-2004 Mustang GT 23 01-05-2012 09:39 AM
Intake Suggestions..... Srohda 2011-2014 Mustang GT 42 09-19-2011 04:56 PM
89 Octane.... DannyDoright 2011-2014 V6 Mustang 30 08-25-2011 10:50 PM

» Like Us On Facebook



12:16 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.