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Old 04-08-2012, 03:42 PM   #1
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2013 and reliability issues

Hello, I am new to the forums and I have a few questions and concerns. I am looking to buy a new car in the coming months and a 2013 mustang GT is at the top of my list. I have been creeping on the forums as a guest for the last couple of days and it has actually raised concerns on the reliability of the GT and the Coyote engine. I am worried about the transmission and clutch issues with the 6 speed as well as the #8 piston issues and engines seizing at 5000 miles because of the engines burning oil. What worries me even more is the way that these Ford dealerships seem to treat their customers. I have never owned a Ford before and have mainly been a Chevy guy. I looked at the Camaro but I am sick of the bailout BS and the service at the Chevy dealerships in MD (they SUCK!). Although, the LS3 is very reliable. I wanted to know if the changes to the Coyote in 2013 (removal of piston cooling jets) have increased the reliability, and if you would recommend pulling the trigger on the GT. Thanks!
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #2
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The coyote is reliable even 11-12 models. The #8 issue I think is blew out of the water. Some have claimed issues stock but are they really stock. The tranny has been a few issues but put a clutch in it you will be fine
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:40 PM   #3
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Thanks for replying. I thought it was blown out of proportion, but I obviously couldn't judge on my own terms. How's the Ford service by you?
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:51 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyg36
Thanks for replying. I thought it was blown out of proportion, but I obviously couldn't judge on my own terms. How's the Ford service by you?
I have had zero issues with my engine, my tranny shifts a little clunky but I also have one of the original coyote/mt82 mustangs. I've heard many of the newer ones have fixed these issues.

I love my ford dealership. They are mod friendly and they do not BS me at all. They are great people. But I'm sure there are a decent share of bad ones, and the same can be said about Chevy dealers. I'm sure there are some that are great and some are horrible

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyg36
Thanks for replying. I thought it was blown out of proportion, but I obviously couldn't judge on my own terms. How's the Ford service by you?
I think that if you get the '13 you will have a great car on your hands. Those problems you hear are much more isolated incidents than the victims would have you believe
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by GrabberBlue5.0

I have had zero issues with my engine, my tranny shifts a little clunky but I also have one of the original coyote/mt82 mustangs. I've heard many of the newer ones have fixed these issues.

I love my ford dealership. They are mod friendly and they do not BS me at all. They are great people. But I'm sure there are a decent share of bad ones, and the same can be said about Chevy dealers. I'm sure there are some that are great and some are horrible
I'd probably go through Dealer Rater and find the top rated dealer. I think they have some guarantee on their sponsored dealers. Any clutch recommendations?
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Old 04-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #6
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There's been well over 100,000 11+ stangs made. The percentage of people that experienced a #8 issue is represented by like 4 decimal places and there is info out there about the cause/fix. The clutch/shifter are much improved since '05, when they were heavy/jerky respectively. Trannys have been a little clunky since '05, but has been getting increasingly better except for some folks who had trouble actually getting into a gear in the 10-11s IIRC. Again, a minuscule percentage and for the price, Im not sure you can buy a better performance car of the same quality. The Camaro might have paddles, but is slower and has engine issues of its own, not to mention crappy ergonomics. The Challenger is beautiful but significantly slower. If you want even better quality out of the box, youre going to have to pay for it.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:06 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyg36
Hello, I am new to the forums and I have a few questions and concerns. I am looking to buy a new car in the coming months and a 2013 mustang GT is at the top of my list. I have been creeping on the forums as a guest for the last couple of days and it has actually raised concerns on the reliability of the GT and the Coyote engine. I am worried about the transmission and clutch issues with the 6 speed as well as the #8 piston issues and engines seizing at 5000 miles because of the engines burning oil. What worries me even more is the way that these Ford dealerships seem to treat their customers. I have never owned a Ford before and have mainly been a Chevy guy. I looked at the Camaro but I am sick of the bailout BS and the service at the Chevy dealerships in MD (they SUCK!). Although, the LS3 is very reliable. I wanted to know if the changes to the Coyote in 2013 (removal of piston cooling jets) have increased the reliability, and if you would recommend pulling the trigger on the GT. Thanks!
Not sure where you are in MD. But Cowles Parkway in VA is one of the best IMO. I use them for everything and have never had an issue. PM and I can get you a name and number of someone there.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:18 PM   #8
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Thanks for the responses! I'm still a couple of months off from ordering but this has eased my mind a bit. Again, if anyone has clutch recommendations please post, I would appreciate it.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:28 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by mikeyg36
Thanks for the responses! I'm still a couple of months off from ordering but this has eased my mind a bit. Again, if anyone has clutch recommendations please post, I would appreciate it.
Heard great things about Centerforce dual friction.
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:44 PM   #10
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Completely getting off topic, but I keep Thinking of new questions. Do any 1st to 4th eliminators exist for Ford that doesn't void the warranty? I've seen them for Camaros Corvettes and Challengers, but I can't find any for a stang. Is it annoying in your cars or did you just remove it?
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Old 04-08-2012, 08:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by mikeyg36
Completely getting off topic, but I keep Thinking of new questions. Do any 1st to 4th eliminators exist for Ford that doesn't void the warranty? I've seen them for Camaros Corvettes and Challengers, but I can't find any for a stang. Is it annoying in your cars or did you just remove it?
You can tune it out. Or just disconnect it from tranny.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:01 PM   #12
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

It is very easy to disconnect, and solves the 1st-4th problem. If you need to take it in for sevice, just plug it back in.
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Old 04-08-2012, 11:08 PM   #13
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It is very easy to disconnect, and solves the 1st-4th problem. If you need to take it in for sevice, just plug it back in.
Thanks
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:23 AM   #14
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

No issues with the engine or tranny on my 11......... (knocking loudly on my desk)
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Old 04-09-2012, 08:34 AM   #15
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

You could also spring for an automatic. They are great and better for 13, with select shift.

I couldn't do that because on my 12, I'd have to sacrifice all the other performance options to get an auto car. You can still get all that good stuff on the 13 and go auto.

My '12 MT82 has started the infamous whine now. So far the dealer has been respectful, acknowledged my issues are real and has started the paper trail that will lead to a repair. That's all anyone can ask. In convenient, yeah but, that's all so far.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:01 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 5LHO
You could also spring for an automatic. They are great and better for 13, with select shift.

I couldn't do that because on my 12, I'd have to sacrifice all the other performance options to get an auto car. You can still get all that good stuff on the 13 and go auto.

My '12 MT82 has started the infamous whine now. So far the dealer has been respectful, acknowledged my issues are real and has started the paper trail that will lead to a repair. That's all anyone can ask. In convenient, yeah but, that's all so far.
Sorry to hear that. I would probably go with the auto if it shifted faster and had paddles.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:11 AM   #17
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

Paddles are overrated unless it's a DSG. A manumatic with a bump-shift or button works extremely well and is simple. Concentrates all shift actions, including reverse/park, on one little stick, easy-peasy.

FYI, the auto cars are ripping up the dragstrip, stock and tuned so, it's tough to argue with their performance delivery.

If you're still unhappy with shift speeds, a mild tune will set you right. Even the Procal tune from Ford Racing will do that.

The 11-12 cars needed a tune to get the automatic to where the 13 is, stock, it seems. Will a computer shift still be a hair slower than you rowing gears? Maybe but, more likely it's just a sensation from the mechanical connection. If you timed them both start to finish, they're probably about the same, unless you're powershifting.
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Old 04-09-2012, 09:31 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by 5LHO
Paddles are overrated unless it's a DSG. A manumatic with a bump-shift or button works extremely well and is simple. Concentrates all shift actions, including reverse/park, on one little stick, easy-peasy.

FYI, the auto cars are ripping up the dragstrip, stock and tuned so, it's tough to argue with their performance delivery.

If you're still unhappy with shift speeds, a mild tune will set you right. Even the Procal tune from Ford Racing will do that.

The 11-12 cars needed a tune to get the automatic to where the 13 is, stock, it seems. Will a computer shift still be a hair slower than you rowing gears? Maybe but, more likely it's just a sensation from the mechanical connection. If you timed them both start to finish, they're probably about the same, unless you're powershifting.
I think there's just something about having an auto mustang. You are looked down upon for choosing the auto even if it is faster.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:44 AM   #19
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

+1 on most everything said above.

The #8 issue is blown WAY out of proportion! I think confirmed cases of this are in the single digits, less than five IIRC. Many of those had wierd circumstances (one guy had ran tunes from 4 or 5 different shops) and many people suspect that using the wrong grade of fuel was involved.

The MT82 problems, on the other hand, are definitely real. They do seem to be more common on the early 11s, but there are 12s that had issues too. The problems seem to be less common on 2012 models, but that could be an artificial impression since they don't have as many miles on it. It's been difficult to gauge how many cars are truly affected by this, since numbers range from the 3% that Ford alleges (most likely a serious understatement) and the 35% that report issue on the poll over at AFM (most likely seriously inflated).

I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle, and as we start to see these cars get more miles it will end up being between 15-25% of the cars. This is just my guess, partially based on the fact that I don't feel the MT82 was a good choice, not the least of those reason being that it is rated for less torque than the stock motor (which by all accounts is underrated from Ford in HP and TQ) puts out.

Out of the three people that I know who own 2011 Mustangs with a MT82, two of them have transmission problems. Hardly a good sample size, but I will tell you that it's not related to the drivers. We've all owned other manual cars, and other manual Mustangs.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:49 AM   #20
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+1 on most everything said above.

The #8 issue is blown WAY out of proportion! I think confirmed cases of this are in the single digits, less than five IIRC. Many of those had wierd circumstances (one guy had ran tunes from 4 or 5 different shops) and many people suspect that using the wrong grade of fuel was involved.

The MT82 problems, on the other hand, are definitely real. They do seem to be more common on the early 11s, but there are 12s that had issues too. The problems seem to be less common on 2012 models, but that could be an artificial impression since they don't have as many miles on it. It's been difficult to gauge how many cars are truly affected by this, since numbers range from the 3% that Ford alleges (most likely a serious understatement) and the 35% that report issue on the poll over at AFM (most likely seriously inflated).

I'd say the truth is somewhere in the middle, and as we start to see these cars get more miles it will end up being between 15-25% of the cars. This is just my guess, partially based on the fact that I don't feel the MT82 was a good choice, not the least of those reason being that it is rated for less torque than the stock motor (which by all accounts is underrated from Ford in HP and TQ) puts out.

Out of the three people that I know who own 2011 Mustangs with a MT82, two of them have transmission problems. Hardly a good sample size, but I will tell you that it's not related to the drivers. We've all owned other manual cars, and other manual Mustangs.
They should have just gone with the Tremec 6060 or changed it to that for '13.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:53 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by mikeyg36

They should have just gone with the Tremec 6060 or changed it to that for '13.
Even staying with the tr-3650 would have been a better option IMO. It was rate for 450 lb/ft and the mt82 is only good for 380. Downgrading the trans while upgrading the engine was a serious lapse in judgement.

I suspect this had more to do with CAFE requirements than performance or reliability.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:58 AM   #22
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Even staying with the tr-3650 would have been a better option IMO. It was rate for 450 lb/ft and the mt82 is only good for 380. Downgrading the trans while upgrading the engine was a serious lapse in judgement.

I suspect this had more to do with CAFE requirements than performance or reliability.
CAFE needs to f*** off. It's ruining great cars. I just don't understand why Ford would put a 380 tranny in when the engine is UNDERRATED at 390.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:08 AM   #23
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Actually make that three out of three...
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:10 AM   #24
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Actually make that three out of three...
Haha. How much torque is a stock 5.0 making when it's rated correctly?
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:18 AM   #25
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Haha. How much torque is a stock 5.0 making when it's rated correctly?
All over the place, but people are seeing about 350-355ish at the wheels, which is way more than 390 at the crank, more like 400-415.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:26 AM   #26
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I think there's just something about having an auto mustang. You are looked down upon for choosing the auto even if it is faster.
Haha..nope guys want to go fastest always choose the auto. What funny is we have about 8 guys in our mustang club. One Guy has same setup as me. Difference is he is a manual. He averages to run about .5 slower then me at the track. This is before my stall. It will get worse now. He even makes about 50whp more then me. He is now talking about trading for an auto. The other guys all have manuals and even a few them want auto's now. Specially after seeing one my buddies 12 5.0 run 11.3 when they all ran 11.8 with same mods as him.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:31 AM   #27
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All over the place, but people are seeing about 350-355ish at the wheels, which is way more than 390 at the crank, more like 400-415.
Why would they underrate the engine that much? It puts it on par with an LS3.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:37 AM   #28
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

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CAFE needs to f*** off. It's ruining great cars. I just don't understand why Ford would put a 380 tranny in when the engine is UNDERRATED at 390.
CAFE my ***. It's got to do with corporate profit. MT82s are likely cheaper per unit that Tremecs. The Tremecs are no gift either, they've had their share of problems over the years.

Manual trans are going the way of the dinosaurs, count on it. At one time the only choice for performance but, time and technology change. I wouldn't give a rat's *** about anyone "looking down on me" for having an auto car, especially in this day and age.

Fack, even decades back, for example, when I drove a '74 Trans Am with 400 GTO motor and a 3 speed TH400, that sucker would blow the 4 speed guys out of the water down low, even with their steep gears out back. Things have only gotten better.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:00 PM   #29
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CAFE my ***. It's got to do with corporate profit. MT82s are likely cheaper per unit that Tremecs. The Tremecs are no gift either, they've had their share of problems over the years.

Manual trans are going the way of the dinosaurs, count on it. At one time the only choice for performance but, time and technology change. I wouldn't give a rat's *** about anyone "looking down on me" for having an auto car, especially in this day and age.

Fack, even decades back, for example, when I drove a '74 Trans Am with 400 GTO motor and a 3 speed TH400, that sucker would blow the 4 speed guys out of the water down low, even with their steep gears out back. Things have only gotten better.
I just find it more fun to drive a stick over an automatic. If I was drag racing I probably would go auto, but I'm not drag racing it.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:02 PM   #30
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

you have to remember these tranny's are much more efficient then ones of teh past. The car is seeing the HP/TQ rating it was said. WHat the kicker is the tranny manual and auto are not losing as much power as they used to threw the drivetrain.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:09 PM   #31
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

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I just find it more fun to drive a stick over an automatic. If I was drag racing I probably would go auto, but I'm not drag racing it.
I am completely on the same page with you, and it makes me so sad. I LOVE driving a manual, nothing is quite as satisfying as rowing through the gears yourself. My car is first and foremost a street car that I drive for fun, but it blows to get smoked at the track by guys with autos and less power.

As much as I hate to say it, my next stang will be an auto.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:10 PM   #32
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Re: 2013 and reliability issues

I hear ya, there's an intimate connection having a big V8 and stick shift behind it, in a decently coordinated package like this one. I've had lots. It's certainly still better back road, as long as you don't **** up shifting. That's the thing, you make 1000 shifts a day on a trip out back country and, you have to get all of them right. A challenge and accomplishment in itself.

However, I'll admit that if all the performance stuff, like BBP, seats, etc. on the 13s was available on the 12, with the auto and select shift, I'd at least have tried it and seriously considered going that way.

I'm actually glad the Mustang still has a conventional juicebox in auto form as DSGs are a grenade waiting to go off.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Napoleon85

I am completely on the same page with you, and it makes me so sad. I LOVE driving a manual, nothing is quite as satisfying as rowing through the gears yourself. My car is first and foremost a street car that I drive for fun, but it blows to get smoked at the track by guys with autos and less power.

As much as I hate to say it, my next stang will be an auto.
Hopefully they'll develop a dual clutch tranny that can shift in 100ms or less. Then I would jump at the auto, but right now I'll stick with the manual and take the hit in performance.
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