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Old 11-13-2012, 05:11 PM   #1
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Down on power 2013 5.0 Automatic

I recently had my 13 auto on the dyno. With Bama race tune, x pipe and Shelby GT 500 exhaust. It only put down 346 RWHP and 362 RWTQ. The tuner then installed C & l cold air (tune required version) and put in a new dyno tune. After result were 371 RWHP and 391 RWTQ. Good gains, but not where they should be. Most other 5.0s this guy has tuned are well over 400 RWHP. Interestingly, we pulled the run files for 3 other similar cars side by side with mine. One was a buddy's car who was with me. My car was putting down a better torque number of 391 then all the others. However, all the other we're 400 plus on RWHP and mine only 371. Also, at 5000 RPM on my dyno sheet, on both the Bama tune and custom tune, power and torque nose dive. He seems to think I have a weak tune file from Ford and/ or a throttle issue. He recommends putting by stock box and tune back in and taking it to Ford to have them update the firmware, then bring it back to him. Any thoughts opinions would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:19 PM   #2
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They will know u tuned the car and will not want to do anything. But just give it a try. Good luck
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:50 PM   #3
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I have a good relationship with the dealership. They are a customer of mine. Hoping that helps. I wish I had done a baseline dyno. But if I'm only putting down 347 on the Bama tune, it's probably in the 330s on the stock tune. That's far off the advertised 420 flywheel HP. If you 15% as driveline loss should be in the 360+ range stock. And that's what most autos are putting down stock.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:29 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by CPERR2013
I have a good relationship with the dealership. They are a customer of mine. Hoping that helps. I wish I had done a baseline dyno. But if I'm only putting down 347 on the Bama tune, it's probably in the 330s on the stock tune. That's far off the advertised 420 flywheel HP. If you 15% as driveline loss should be in the 360+ range stock. And that's what most autos are putting down stock.
Yeah. Something sounds wrong. 2011 auto with x pipe, AB, air raid CAI and bama 93, I put down what I considered a bit low 380.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by CPERR2013
I have a good relationship with the dealership. They are a customer of mine. Hoping that helps. I wish I had done a baseline dyno. But if I'm only putting down 347 on the Bama tune, it's probably in the 330s on the stock tune. That's far off the advertised 420 flywheel HP. If you 15% as driveline loss should be in the 360+ range stock. And that's what most autos are putting down stock.
Yup... 2011 auto - baseline 360WHP, 383 WHP with C&L CAI and 91 tune.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:48 PM   #6
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Something definitely sounds weird here. I'm not so sure an update in PCM firmware will do you much good for hp/tq goals, but it's worth a try. I want to say it sounds more like a mechanical problem to me... but that's just because you've had two different experienced tuners write two different calibrations that both showed below par on the dyno.

Try the firmware update theory and go from there. I'm interested to hear the results!

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Old 11-13-2012, 06:55 PM   #7
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I'm wondering what the best way to phrase my concerns to the dealer? I'm not too concerned about voiding warranty. More concerned about getting the power that is advertised.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:08 PM   #8
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I'm wondering what the best way to phrase my concerns to the dealer? I'm not too concerned about voiding warranty. More concerned about getting the power that is advertised.
what kind of fuel are you using , ran the trank dry and refuel it with high octane , do not forget that nj area (where i live) just had a hurricane and a lot of states have being sending gas this way.. i wouldnt be surprised if they sold u cat for rabbit
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:33 PM   #9
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I only run 93 and occasionally put in some 100 octane just to boost octane level a little. I'm in NC so I don't think it's an issue.
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:26 PM   #10
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I'm wondering what the best way to phrase my concerns to the dealer? I'm not too concerned about voiding warranty. More concerned about getting the power that is advertised.
You could change everything back to stock and get one more run on the dyno. Once you get the dyno sheet, take it back to your dealer to show proof about your Mustangs power levels. It may help them put it perspective better, oppose to just going off of a customs opinion. Other than that, you could also take a ride in another friends Mustang who as similar specs, that is still stock and justify to your dealer that something doesn't feel right in the power.

These are just some suggestions of the top of my head. I'm sure you could do things a better way. Plus, you mentioned you had a good relationship with your dealer. Hopefully, that will help!

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Old 08-07-2013, 08:31 PM   #11
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CPERR, automatics will ALWAYS make 15-25RWHP less than sticks as a average in mustang V8's, camaro V8's, vetts, etc... Another important thing is weather, density altitude, heat, humidity, actual elevation, these will all be different. Plus, to me and the experts in Europe that have been racing and dynoing cars much longer then here in the U.S. say a proper dyno is done with the hood closed. Open is overly false giving higher numbers than actual due to excessive heat dissipation. In real world, the hood is closed. That's how proper dynos are done, hood closed with powerful small turbine fans in front for airflow. Most new 5.0 MT82's are in the 355-375 RWHP range depending on the weather and stock gears. The A6 trans should be in the 320-345rwhp range. American Muscles Auto did 327rwhp. That's the reality of autos. Figure 19-20% drivetrain loss. Sticks are typically 14.5-16% on NA cars.

Also, most manufactures use a dyno-jet type dyno. Mustang and chassis dynos tend to read lower.

---------- Post added at 08:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:26 PM ----------

I would not mention any modds to your dealer to save your warranty. You also must compare to friends with automatics and factory oem 3.15 gears. Plus, mufflers add no power and a CAI might add 8-10hp at most.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:26 AM   #12
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It's 1 of 2 things. It's either the tune or the adaptive learning. These ecu's learn your driving habits. It's more noticeable in the auto cars. Unhook the battery for about 30 min the go threw the procedure for idle/fuel trim re learn via the owners manual. Then go drive/beat the tires off of it.
I'm leaning towards the tune. Have you do any data logging? Did you log the car on the dyno? An experienced tuner will be able to tell if something funky is going on in the log. I've been having issues with my car/tunes for weeks now. I've had over 13 tune revisions and sent in over 7 data logs now. All being for the same set up. Cold air and cat deletes. I'm only putting down 400hp and 383 tq. My car is a manual. My best 1/4 ET is 13.1 @ 109 with a 2.08 60ft.
I'm trying to rule out a hurt motor. A few of the tune revisions I have gotten run great for a few days. Then the cars seems to back off slightly and develop a rattle noise @ 4600rpm and up. I've asked bama several times if the car is pulling timing when the noise is occurring but they have yet to give me a straight answer.
I would seriously consider a dyno tune or a tune from someone like AED if your looking for more power
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Old 08-08-2013, 09:03 AM   #13
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I only run 93 and occasionally put in some 100 octane just to boost octane level a little. I'm in NC so I don't think it's an issue.
check your oil level.. car could be in safe mode..
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Old 08-08-2013, 02:34 PM   #14
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check your oil level.. car could be in safe mode..

Um... I wouldn't rely on any safe mode to save you if the oil is low...first, there isn't a "safe mode" and the motor will smoke a bearing before telling you you're out of oil.
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Old 08-08-2013, 08:04 PM   #15
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There's a RE RE light that tells you if your oil is low. If your oil is low enough to cause issues with performance then the motor is all ready FUNAR!
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Old 08-09-2013, 09:34 AM   #16
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There's a RE RE light that tells you if your oil is low. If your oil is low enough to cause issues with performance then the motor is all ready FUNAR!
Whatever a RE RE means? There is NO oil level light, period. There is a pressure warning and that's it. It's on about page 13 or 14 of your owners' manual.

This is why there's a dipstick on this engine; it is still assumed the dipstick that owns it can check this thing every once in a while. This trust is rare these days as assumptions about owner incompetence with the simplest tasks are well-borne out in evidence, particularly in North America.
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Old 08-09-2013, 11:37 AM   #17
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This going to turn into a Canada is better than America thread?lol I know the indicator is based on pressure and not level. Still if there's no oil there's no pressure! RE RE means ******! If your one of the ppl thinking that just because ford says the oil only needs changed every 10k miles and do not check the level via the good ol dip stick at regular intervals them my friend you are a RE RE!
I check my oil every 500 miles and change both the filter and oil every 5k miles
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Old 08-09-2013, 12:15 PM   #18
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You are a colossal *******...I could tell right away when you showed up here what you'd eventually get up to and here we are.

You said there was a light to tell you if the oil is low. That suggests to, I'd venture, almost anyone that you think it's a level light.

You can get oil pressure with a couple litres in there, and still smoke the bearings. By the time a pressure warning goes off, the engine could very well be done.

Modern engines with modern oil on an 8 litre sump could potentially go to 10K on an oil change, as long as the level is monitored, bar a racing environment. You might want to update your thinking in the area, as it isn't 1980 any more. People test and find that there's plenty of acid resistance and lubricity left in a modern synthetic oil at or near the 10K range, across many platforms and from many manufacturers. Personally, I change it ~ every 5000 miles but, I do drag race the car.

I simply don't understand the Canada v. America comment, based upon the fact I said, "North America" which, last I checked, included both nations.
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Old 08-09-2013, 01:00 PM   #19
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You are a colossal *******...I could tell right away when you showed up here what you'd eventually get up to and here we are.

You said there was a light to tell you if the oil is low. That suggests to, I'd venture, almost anyone that you think it's a level light.

You can get oil pressure with a couple litres in there, and still smoke the bearings. By the time a pressure warning goes off, the engine could very well be done.

Modern engines with modern oil on an 8 litre sump could potentially go to 10K on an oil change, as long as the level is monitored, bar a racing environment. You might want to update your thinking in the area, as it isn't 1980 any more. People test and find that there's plenty of acid resistance and lubricity left in a modern synthetic oil at or near the 10K range, across many platforms and from many manufacturers. Personally, I change it ~ every 5000 miles but, I do drag race the car.

I simply don't understand the Canada v. America comment, based upon the fact I said, "North America" which, last I checked, included both nations.
I just asked a simple question? As ive seen comments like that turn into some pretty ignorant ***** that has zero benefit to anyone!
This indicator light has many "terms". Dummy light, oil light, and for me RE RE light.
I guess I'm an A-Hole that changes his oil every 5k miles and checks it every 500. I'm ok with that
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:00 PM   #20
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This going to turn into a Canada is better than America thread?lol I know the indicator is based on pressure and not level. Still if there's no oil there's no pressure! RE RE means ******! If your one of the ppl thinking that just because ford says the oil only needs changed every 10k miles and do not check the level via the good ol dip stick at regular intervals them my friend you are a RE RE!
I check my oil every 500 miles and change both the filter and oil every 5k miles
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I just asked a simple question? As ive seen comments like that turn into some pretty ignorant ***** that has zero benefit to anyone!
This indicator light has many "terms". Dummy light, oil light, and for me RE RE light.
I guess I'm an A-Hole that changes his oil every 5k miles and checks it every 500. I'm ok with that
You clearly are very misinformed on some things. What I will say to you is if you continue to give out bogus answers on questions you will be called out.
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:38 PM   #21
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Gee, the weekend hasn't even started yet!
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Old 08-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #22
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Gee, the weekend hasn't even started yet!
I hear ya
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Old 08-09-2013, 05:09 PM   #23
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ReRe lol. That is hilarious. My old e46 BMW M3 CPU started to go bad just before I got rid of it and it would lose power, reset or restart itself abd start speaking German. Check engine light would come on and I would get a fruity european chime that was followed by: ACHTUNG! Lol

Mein BMW est shizer!
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Old 08-09-2013, 06:58 PM   #24
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You clearly are very misinformed on some things. What I will say to you is if you continue to give out bogus answers on questions you will be called out.
Miss informed about what exactly? Bogus answers to what? How is me saying "if the oil is low enough to effect the way the motor runs that the motor is shot"? What of that is incorrect? What about no oil equals no oil pressure? Enlighten me!
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Old 08-09-2013, 07:06 PM   #25
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I'm no perfectionist by any means WITH ANYTHING! That's why I am on here looking for info. If I'm wrong about something them by all means correct me! That's why I'm here. But talk down to someone and talking to them like there stupid because they don't know or were "misinformed" isn't ok! Do I care what anyone thinks? Well of course not. This is a learning experience for me. This is my first coyote powered Stang. But not my first rodeo. I believe there is no stupid question and the one that thinks they know EVERYTHING is actually the ignorant one because they CANNOT be taught anything new.
It's all good tho. I'll take what I need and forget the rest
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:40 AM   #26
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This really getting stupid!! What ever happened to helping someone out with a question, no matter what the question is!! The whole idea of this forum is to help people out, not to start calling them names because the don't know something!! Everyone has to start somewhere, and now a days the Internet is the teacher instead of someone like in the days before the Internet! So can we try and be a descent human being and help others out instead of being a**hole and start calling others names!! Remember.... You had to start some were to!!
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:59 AM   #27
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What ever happened to helping someone out with a question, no matter what the question is!!
I'm sure the OP found an answer by now since there a 9 month jump between posts 10 and 11 haha. But, yes, if someone creates a thread looking for information and assistance, we should do what we can to help them, not argue with other forum members.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:23 AM   #28
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Look, it's really simple, when someone hands out info that could lead others to wrong conclusions, one should expect to be called on that.

When someone responds by trying to backpedal and starts throwing out chaff and flares about nationalism, coming off as really aggressive and defensive, while at the same time playing the "I just asked a simple question" innocence card; one should expect to be called on that, too.

It has nothing to do with being helpful. Everybody here knows I will help anyone, if I can. Like any human endeavour, This is a social enterprise and, people forget that at their peril. THAT is the issue, not what the question is or who asked it.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:29 AM   #29
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5LHO... I wouldn't call you out on anything!! You Re one of the most helpfull on here with others! You have helped me and I'm sure alot of others to!! It's the ones who want to just call names and not really helping others!! Again!!!! Thanks 5LHOFOR ALL THE HELP YOU HAVE GIVEN!! That's what this forum is about!!!
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:35 AM   #30
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Well, I did call the guy an ******* and I shouldn't have done that. I was frustrated by the manner and tone of his responses and spoke out of turn. I apologise to ddinn and the group for that.
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Old 08-10-2013, 11:43 AM   #31
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I wouldn't worry about it! He did push my buttons when reading it!! And some of these guys who do get on here and do give out bull crap info to people looking for help and could cause some serious damage to someone's car need to be put in their place!!! And I'm sure alot if people on here felt the same as you and you spoke up for all of us!!
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