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Old 11-14-2012, 06:52 PM   #1
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Merry Christmas ... time for some suspension upgrades?

So, my car (2012 Brembo GT) was lowered as part of the dealer installed "Roush package" and has Roush lowering springs and IMO the handling is excellent. However, I am aware that the factory hardware doesn't last as long or perform as well on a lowered car.

When as was at the performance shop in Richmond, they suggested the Ford Racing shocks / struts. I would probably also add a BMR panhard bar ... not sure of the rear end is off-center but as I understand it it HAS to be at least slightly off on a lowered car.

So, if the Ford Racing stuff any good? Should I spend more for the adjustable Ford Racing package? Or is the standard stuff with the panhard bar and maybe new LCA's a better package? I don't track the car ... just enjoy tearing up the windy Virginia country roads.

If the extra $$$ for the adjustable package worth it if you're not tracking the car?

Thanks.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:28 PM   #2
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IMHO it's a waste to get the adjustables if you do not track the car. If you're an avid windy road destroyer, they may be for you. I know one car that does not drag or autox but absolutely loves his Koni yellows
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:29 PM   #3
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When I replace my dampers, they will be aftermarket, but they will be nonadjustable. I'm thinking the Koni STR.T
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:20 PM   #4
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Will the ford racing fixed struts and shocks perform better than the stocks? If so, how so?

In general, what could I expect after the upgrade from the stocks? Sorry, I don't know a whole lot about suspension components and how they individually affect handling.

Also - any idea on how the FRP setup compares to the Eibach Pro-Damper shocks and struts?
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:45 PM   #5
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Been reading heavy on this a while, trying to get a certain shop to get their ****e together and give me an estimate on a BMR setup (optimal from what I have found thanks to a link from a member here).

I have only played with motors... Everything else I know is conjecture and reading. That being said, please tell me you h
Already have a panhard or watts setup? You can't lower without it, bless you don't mind your axle sitting off to one side.

I am trying to find out what is best for carving corners but also handling 570 to the rear. From what I have been told (or sold) it is LCAs, a UCA and sway bars minimum. Hotchkis also makes cross members that are really enticing. Very curious to hear what others here say other than 'get LCAs and a panhard'. If you go too deep on this forum people tend to telyou to try s197, so you might want to register there as well.

Edit: if you have stock dampers, you are working outside of their intended range (a full inch). That means they are not working properly and will also wear out sooner
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SolidRRaxle View Post
Been reading heavy on this a while, trying to get a certain shop to get their ****e together and give me an estimate on a BMR setup (optimal from what I have found thanks to a link from a member here).

I have only played with motors... Everything else I know is conjecture and reading. That being said, please tell me you h
Already have a panhard or watts setup? You can't lower without it, bless you don't mind your axle sitting off to one side.

I am trying to find out what is best for carving corners but also handling 570 to the rear. From what I have been told (or sold) it is LCAs, a UCA and sway bars minimum. Hotchkis also makes cross members that are really enticing. Very curious to hear what others here say other than 'get LCAs and a panhard'. If you go too deep on this forum people tend to telyou to try s197, so you might want to register there as well.

Edit: if you have stock dampers, you are working outside of their intended range (a full inch). That means they are not working properly and will also wear out sooner
Well, if the rear axle is not centered, it certainly appears to be centered. As I understand it, that not possible, so if it's off it's certainly not readily noticeable. That said, I want it to be right.

I think I'll probably go with non-adjustables and the BMR PHB ... I suspect that I can install the PHB myself (I watched the CJ Pony video, looked pretty straightforward, I assume you can't do it on ramps, you'd need jackstands?), the other stuff is probably beyond my tools and talent.

Understand the issue with the stock dampers ... the shop pointed this out. As of right now, they still seem OK, so it's not urgent ... but I'll replace them next month, hopefully.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:22 PM   #7
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All due respect, but if it was not possible, a panhard bar or watts linkage would not exist. Just sayin
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Old 11-15-2012, 05:20 AM   #8
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All due respect, but if it was not possible, a panhard bar or watts linkage would not exist. Just sayin
What?

I said that as I understand it it's not possible for your axle to NOT be off-center if your car is lowered due to the nature of PHB's. That was how it was explained to me. Although visually mine looks OK, I acknowledge that it's probably off, and thus want a new PHB to be part of my upgrades.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:04 AM   #9
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Sway bars help out a whole lot

They did on my car
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:06 AM   #10
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Sway bars help out a whole lot

They did on my car
I hear mixed messages on that front ... some folks seem to think the stock sway bars are fine.

What sway bars did you install?
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:13 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmike87

Well, if the rear axle is not centered, it certainly appears to be centered. As I understand it, that not possible, so if it's off it's certainly not readily noticeable. That said, I want it to be right.

I think I'll probably go with non-adjustables and the BMR PHB ... I suspect that I can install the PHB myself (I watched the CJ Pony video, looked pretty straightforward, I assume you can't do it on ramps, you'd need jackstands?), the other stuff is probably beyond my tools and talent.

Understand the issue with the stock dampers ... the shop pointed this out. As of right now, they still seem OK, so it's not urgent ... but I'll replace them next month, hopefully.
The big thing about replacing the dampers is for lowering, you will have dampers created to work in a lower height range as well as the fact that their damping rate will be a little more stiff to perform better in the twisties. I have had my car lowered for about the last 15k miles and still have stock dampers. A little bit of a rough ride but I'll wait a little longer to replace them
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmike87

I hear mixed messages on that front ... some folks seem to think the stock sway bars are fine.

What sway bars did you install?
I have a 85 with a2.3 turbo I used the svo swaybars bc they don't make aftermarket for mine
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:20 AM   #13
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Deleted - apparently I found the magic search string this time and found some good info.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:16 AM   #14
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These look interesting, and for adjustables seem pretty aggressively priced:

Tokico 2011-13 Mustang D-Spec Shocks and Struts 578-DSP-12-11

OR, since it seems strongly suggested that the strut mounts be replaced, and the GT500 mounts seem to be favored for the price (the Steeda mounts are nice, I'm sure but $350 ...) would it make more sense to get these:

http://www.steeda.com/store/tokico-0...ks-struts.html

and the GT500 mounts to go with them? Would that work?

Thanks.
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Old 11-15-2012, 06:02 PM   #15
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So, upon closer inspection, the axle is off (like I thought it had to be) and the car is pushed to the passenger side, which is supposedly how it's supposed to be. I swear I looked several times and it never looked off!

So, shocks and struts aside ... a BMR adjustable PHB is going to be on order. Does this affect handling at all, or is it purely an aesthetic thing?
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:19 PM   #16
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I have the ford racing adjustable handling kit on my 11 GT with the ford racing Adjustable PHB. I love my set up. The only thing is that the PHB is a little noisy going over bumps and up steep drive ways. The dealer where i had the kit installed told me the PHB doesn't come with bushings so thats where the noise is coming from. I looked and the PHB clearly has rubber bushings. Maybe if I can find polyurethane bushings for it it will cut down on the noise. Overall I love my set up! Let me know if you have any questions
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:29 PM   #17
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I am going to pick up the BMR PHB ASAP ... looks simple enough to install myself on some jack stands.

I am going to ask Performance Auto about the shocks and struts - they suggested the Ford Racing non adjustables but for a little over $100 more the Tokico adjustable setup looks pretty attractive.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:39 AM   #18
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The ford adjustables and the Tockico D- Specs are the same thing just different stickers
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Old 11-16-2012, 05:12 AM   #19
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The ford adjustables and the Tockico D- Specs are the same thing just different stickers
No kidding? Significant price difference ... but I guess the Ford Racing parts are typically more expensive.
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Old 11-16-2012, 06:23 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmike87

What?

I said that as I understand it it's not possible for your axle to NOT be off-center if your car is lowered due to the nature of PHB's. That was how it was explained to me. Although visually mine looks OK, I acknowledge that it's probably off, and thus want a new PHB to be part of my upgrades.
My intake, I had read the opposite.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:05 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by SolidRRaxle View Post
If you go too deep on this forum people tend to telyou to try s197, so you might want to register there as well.
Very good advice. There is a lot of knowledge there. In fact, they have a pretty good suspension thread going right now. I'd definitely register over there & spend some time reading.

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Originally Posted by mmike87 View Post
These look interesting, and for adjustables seem pretty aggressively priced:

Tokico 2011-13 Mustang D-Spec Shocks and Struts 578-DSP-12-11

OR, since it seems strongly suggested that the strut mounts be replaced, and the GT500 mounts seem to be favored for the price (the Steeda mounts are nice, I'm sure but $350 ...) would it make more sense to get these:

Tokico 2005-10 D-Spec Shocks and Struts 578-DSP-12

and the GT500 mounts to go with them? Would that work?

Thanks.
I'd definitely head over to S197 & do some reading first. The D-Specs are not really highly thought-of there. However, the STR.Ts are popular as are the yellows. I am 99.99% sure that when I get around to suspension work, I'll be throwing Koni Sports on mine.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmike87
So, upon closer inspection, the axle is off (like I thought it had to be) and the car is pushed to the passenger side, which is supposedly how it's supposed to be. I swear I looked several times and it never looked off!

So, shocks and struts aside ... a BMR adjustable PHB is going to be on order. Does this affect handling at all, or is it purely an aesthetic thing?
Purely aesthetic. The rear isn't actually off, the body of the car is in conjunction to the rear. The only bad that can come of it is if you hit a hard bump the one side tire could rub on the fender.
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Old 11-16-2012, 02:00 PM   #23
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Very good advice. There is a lot of knowledge there. In fact, they have a pretty good suspension thread going right now. I'd definitely register over there & spend some time reading.

I'd definitely head over to S197 & do some reading first. The D-Specs are not really highly thought-of there. However, the STR.Ts are popular as are the yellows. I am 99.99% sure that when I get around to suspension work, I'll be throwing Koni Sports on mine.
Ok, thanks - I will check them out. I've been over there a couple of times but not regularly.

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Purely aesthetic. The rear isn't actually off, the body of the car is in conjunction to the rear. The only bad that can come of it is if you hit a hard bump the one side tire could rub on the fender.
Thanks for explanation.
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Old 11-16-2012, 08:53 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWC_SmOziLLa

Purely aesthetic. The rear isn't actually off, the body of the car is in conjunction to the rear. The only bad that can come of it is if you hit a hard bump the one side tire could rub on the fender.
That's not entirely true. It will cause you vehicle to push one way or another ever so slightly, and it throws off the suspension geometries and adds unnecessary stress to other suspension components. Also it will cause uneven tire wear over time
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:19 AM   #25
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That's not entirely true. It will cause you vehicle to push one way or another ever so slightly, and it throws off the suspension geometries and adds unnecessary stress to other suspension components. Also it will cause uneven tire wear over time
Still not that serious for DD applications. But I stand corrected, I believe what your saying. I was going by something I read quite a while ago.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:38 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mmike87
These look interesting, and for adjustables seem pretty aggressively priced:

Tokico 2011-13 Mustang D-Spec Shocks and Struts 578-DSP-12-11

OR, since it seems strongly suggested that the strut mounts be replaced, and the GT500 mounts seem to be favored for the price (the Steeda mounts are nice, I'm sure but $350 ...) would it make more sense to get these:

http://www.steeda.com/store/tokico-0...ks-struts.html

and the GT500 mounts to go with them? Would that work?

Thanks.
Both D-Specs you linked to are exactly the same units. Without adding any more confusion, they are 2005-2010 specific units... You can use GT500 strut mounts or the supplied "kit" to use them on the 2011+ strut mounts. Rear shocks are all the same for 2005-present. PM me and I'll explain further. "Orange" Koni's require GT500 strut mounts, just like the Ford Racing kits. Koni Sport(Yellow) struts are available in the 2011+ strut mount flavor.
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Old 11-17-2012, 06:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by mmike87 View Post
I am going to pick up the BMR PHB ASAP ... looks simple enough to install myself on some jack stands.

I am going to ask Performance Auto about the shocks and struts - they suggested the Ford Racing non adjustables but for a little over $100 more the Tokico adjustable setup looks pretty attractive.
I am a huge fan of BMR and have multiple susp. parts of theres.I will tell you this. A pan hard bar does not need to be extremely expensive or top notch quality.I personally would get a adjustable J&M or one of that price range. and if you do want to retain min. amount of NVH then get poly for the PH Bar.Solid ends I see great for road coursing but you will get more noise and feel.PH bar is not much of what you call a performance part. Things to keep in mind. Adjustable of course. Replace the grease fittings before install with 90degree fittings which are only couple dollars.I got probably 20 still.Pump it with decent grease after you install.The bar is really moving the body of the car over the axle.The axle is not moving but yes on jack stands.It's possible your car is centered to close to tell.Depending on how much drop.You can do some measurements if you want to get real precise.
As for Struts and shocks I am still undecided.Alot of good ones out threr,but at times I hear people not so happy with aftermarkets. Right now I am still on the KONI STR.T but many have said save the extra and get adjustables.
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Old 11-17-2012, 09:43 PM   #28
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Not sure what your purpose is, but below is what I just bought. I am not building a drag car, more interested in holding corners. I had a few other packages in mind but the shop I am working with said for the money this is the best set up I can get for the purpose of track and street. It is a couple hundred more than some others, but I am alright with that as LNG as it turns out the way I want it.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...oducts_id=1114

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-u...aybar-kit.html
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by SolidRRaxle
Not sure what your purpose is, but below is what I just bought. I am not building a drag car, more interested in holding corners. I had a few other packages in mind but the shop I am working with said for the money this is the best set up I can get for the purpose of track and street. It is a couple hundred more than some others, but I am alright with that as LNG as it turns out the way I want it.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/st...oducts_id=1114

http://www.steeda.com/store/steeda-u...aybar-kit.html
Seems like a good setup. I have the same front & rear sway bars, but Koni Sport dampers and Steeda Sport springs. I wanted the Maximum Motorsports camber/caster plates, but went with Steeda HD strut mounts instead because I didn't feel like I required the extra adjustability of the Maximum Motorsports plates.

I will ask that after you do similar mods, that you check to see how the car does with hard launches and cornering grip. My experience with my initial setup was that I lost a lot of grip in both aspects. I had to correct it with control arm relocation brackets. All is just right.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:57 PM   #30
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Seems like a good setup. I have the same front & rear sway bars, but Koni Sport dampers and Steeda Sport springs. I wanted the Maximum Motorsports camber/caster plates, but went with Steeda HD strut mounts instead because I didn't feel like I required the extra adjustability of the Maximum Motorsports plates.

I will ask that after you do similar mods, that you check to see how the car does with hard launches and cornering grip. My experience with my initial setup was that I lost a lot of grip in both aspects. I had to correct it with control arm relocation brackets. All is just right.
You just might've given me that final push.... Was strongly considering LCAs. The shop was pushing LCAs and UCA, but trying to save for SC. Maybe I can get away with just the lowers
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