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Old 01-27-2013, 07:26 AM   #1
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Carbon fiber CAI

I was thinking about ordering the JLT carbon fiber intake but is it worth the money?
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:43 AM   #2
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Honestly NO! The stock air box is a good true CAI. I have had the JLT CF CAI and sold it.Gains are basically nothing.Maybe 2-3 horsepower and actually can give some issues.;Whole other story but if you wanna try it, go for it.Alot of money that could be used on a much better mod.In fact I favor the stock box over any type out there.If you are NA stay with stock and buy other good stuff.JMO
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:21 AM   #3
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Honestly NO! The stock air box is a good true CAI. I have had the JLT CF CAI and sold it.Gains are basically nothing.Maybe 2-3 horsepower and actually can give some issues.;Whole other story but if you wanna try it, go for it.Alot of money that could be used on a much better mod.In fact I favor the stock box over any type out there.If you are NA stay with stock and buy other good stuff.JMO
Hmm ok thank I think I'm going to go with a short throw shifter
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:56 AM   #4
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For the money you'd spend on the CAI, get the SCT with a tune for stock air box, will see better gains. The aftermarket CAI, are more of a cosmetic addition, they all say you need a tune to benefit from the CAI, and most guys go ahead and buy it, and think that the CAI gained them so much, when the reality is, that the gains come more from the tune itself. I personally didnt waste my time with the aftermarket CAI, and instead added a tune, and saw a big gain, going from 13.38 in stock form with regular unleaded from the dealer, and 85 degree temperature to 12.43 with 93 octane fuel, and 93 octane tune, in 60 degree temps. I'm sure alot of the gains came from cooler temps, but the tune also made huge changes in my automatics shift as well.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:34 AM   #5
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For the money you'd spend on the CAI, get the SCT with a tune for stock air box, will see better gains. The aftermarket CAI, are more of a cosmetic addition, they all say you need a tune to benefit from the CAI, and most guys go ahead and buy it, and think that the CAI gained them so much, when the reality is, that the gains come more from the tune itself. I personally didnt waste my time with the aftermarket CAI, and instead added a tune, and saw a big gain, going from 13.38 in stock form with regular unleaded from the dealer, and 85 degree temperature to 12.43 with 93 octane fuel, and 93 octane tune, in 60 degree temps. I'm sure alot of the gains came from cooler temps, but the tune also made huge changes in my automatics shift as well.
Thanks!
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #6
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I have the JLT CF CAI, my Stang was the test vehicle for DiabloSport, they started off with a base dyno and went through with the stick tune dyno and then again with the JLT + Tune and dynoed again. Their was actually quite a bit of power gains over the stock air box with tune, mainly because of the volume and velocity of the air passed the MAF the fuel mapping is changed to account for it, there's a lot more in it, but in the end my car put down 410hp to the wheels. Although I don't think the CF actually does anything but it does look sweet, IMO.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:15 AM   #7
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I have the JLT CF CAI, my Stang was the test vehicle for DiabloSport, they started off with a base dyno and went through with the stick tune dyno and then again with the JLT + Tune and dynoed again. Their was actually quite a bit of power gains over the stock air box with tune, mainly because of the volume and velocity of the air passed the MAF the fuel mapping is changed to account for it, there's a lot more in it, but in the end my car put down 410hp to the wheels. Although I don't think the CF actually does anything but it does look sweet, IMO.
Your car produced 410 RWHP with a CAI and tune?
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:17 AM   #8
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Corsa XPipe and Corsa Extreme exhaust.

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

I'll try to upload a copy of the dyno sheet later
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:32 AM   #9
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Corsa XPipe and Corsa Extreme exhaust.

---------- Post added at 12:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:17 PM ----------

I'll try to upload a copy of the dyno sheet later
Cat deletes?
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:54 AM   #10
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Nope, stock headers and cats, although kooks long tubes and high flow cats are on the list....
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:01 PM   #11
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My brother in law got roughly the same at 409.4 rwhp on his 2011 Camaro SS, the only thing different is his intake..... Say what you will, but the intake does make a difference when combined with a tune, but as I said before the tune is adjusted for the diameter of the intake on the JLT, it is massive.....
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:24 PM   #12
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Cat deletes?
It's funny but the day I got my car dynoed there was another 12 5.0 that was running too and the only difference he made from has last dyno run was a cat delete and after 2 new runs with the delete he was shocked and dissapointed that the number were about the same
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:36 PM   #13
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For me personally I dont like the look of the plastic. metal, and CF tubes, and on my 13 I am not crazy about getting water through the heat extractors onto the open air filter. The shields they use lately to help with the water problem make them look even uglier. I am actually gonna modify the stock air box, and convert it into a ram air set up feeding through the grill.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:10 PM   #14
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I love my BBK CAI. No tune and I felt a power increase. Also helps with gas mileage.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:48 PM   #15
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I have the JLT CF CAI, my Stang was the test vehicle for DiabloSport, they started off with a base dyno and went through with the stick tune dyno and then again with the JLT + Tune and dynoed again. Their was actually quite a bit of power gains over the stock air box with tune, mainly because of the volume and velocity of the air passed the MAF the fuel mapping is changed to account for it, there's a lot more in it, but in the end my car put down 410hp to the wheels. Although I don't think the CF actually does anything but it does look sweet, IMO.
The gains aren't enough to notice unless it gives you 20 hp or more its not worth the money. If you get a cai and tune your not going to notice at all except the throttle response that comes with the tune that's about it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:16 PM   #16
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It's funny but the day I got my car dynoed there was another 12 5.0 that was running too and the only difference he made from has last dyno run was a cat delete and after 2 new runs with the delete he was shocked and dissapointed that the number were about the same
interesting. I didn't dyno before removing the cats, but I can say there was a power difference. I know this because a turn I have been taking for months and months in the car I spun out on the first time I drove it after removing the cats. Literally my only change. Had a 93 Bama Race tune both times, and they only retuned for the lack of cats. Guess i wasn't really expecting that much of a change and went and threw her in third and what I thought was easing the clutch out was apparently too much for the car to handle. That was stock suspension too. I imagine with a good suspension she'd have held but taken the turn faster.
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:28 PM   #17
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As per DiabloSport I gained 27hp and 29 TQ as per the dyno sheets..... Can anyone explain that kind of gains and whether or not they can be felt?
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:45 PM   #18
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As per DiabloSport I gained 27hp and 29 TQ as per the dyno sheets..... Can anyone explain that kind of gains and whether or not they can be felt?
Your biggest gain comes from the tune. What was the readings with just the tune?
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:30 PM   #19
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Your biggest gain comes from the tune. What was the readings with just the tune?
You are correct, I didn't disagree with that, but I did disagree with the fact people were saying that it hardly gives any power. My Dyno sheets showed 18 HP gain and 20 TQ gain from stock to 93 performance without a CAI. The only thing I was stating before is that they can squeeze more HP out of a tune based on the cars ability to breath more air (volume) at a lower velocity (speed), by doing this you can in theory change the MAF sensor and adjust the fuel mapping to A) run more efficiently (less vacuum created) and B) create more power based off of the fuel mapping. It's the same principle with forced induction, more air = better burning fuel. Which is how they create more power with more boost, the CAI on a N/A engine should reduce the amount of vacuum the engine needs "suck" to pull in the air.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:17 PM   #20
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You are correct, I didn't disagree with that, but I did disagree with the fact people were saying that it hardly gives any power. My Dyno sheets showed 18 HP gain and 20 TQ gain from stock to 93 performance without a CAI. The only thing I was stating before is that they can squeeze more HP out of a tune based on the cars ability to breath more air (volume) at a lower velocity (speed), by doing this you can in theory change the MAF sensor and adjust the fuel mapping to A) run more efficiently (less vacuum created) and B) create more power based off of the fuel mapping. It's the same principle with forced induction, more air = better burning fuel. Which is how they create more power with more boost, the CAI on a N/A engine should reduce the amount of vacuum the engine needs "suck" to pull in the air.
I disagree with the gains.I have had the CF JLT and CAI period are not much help with these coyotes from the stock box.What you are seeing on paper is just that on paper.With hood open and air induced you are seeing a little more yes.Close the hood with no induced air on stock box and do the same with aftermarket CAI and see what you got. Go to track and run your car with stock air box and tune for it. Flash for your CAI and run it then convince me. You will will find with "some" aftermarket CAI that it can hiccup a little too. But if you are not experiencing that....that is good.The reason with induced air on dyno with hood open explains itself. If you go over on some of the bigger boards and heavy modders/drag strip times you will find alot confirming my opinion.I am not trying to argue with CAI performance.Just saying the gains are not worth it versus putting your money toward other mods. JMO
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:06 PM   #21
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You can disagree with the gains all you want, but the fact of the matter is more air = more complete burning of the fuel which means you are extracting all of the BTU's the fuel contains, thus increasing power. It's the same principle of snorkeling, would you rather use a straw from McDonalds or an actual snorkel? If you were under water and breathing through a straw, you wouldn't have the energy to expend on swimming because of your reduced ability to take in air, with a snorkel, it is much easier to breathe and provide air to your muscles.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:15 PM   #22
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You can disagree with the gains all you want, but the fact of the matter is more air = more complete burning of the fuel which means you are extracting all of the BTU's the fuel contains, thus increasing power. It's the same principle of snorkeling, would you rather use a straw from McDonalds or an actual snorkel? If you were under water and breathing through a straw, you wouldn't have the energy to expend on swimming because of your reduced ability to take in air, with a snorkel, it is much easier to breathe and provide air to your muscles.
I think they argument they have is,

Your underwater and can breathe a nice neutral temp air that is low on humidity with a McDonalds straw or a snorkel with air that is super hot and 100% humidity.

Which is easier to breath with?

Personally I want the steeda CAI and no one is changing my mind, but I can see both sides.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:02 PM   #23
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You can disagree with the gains all you want, but the fact of the matter is more air = more complete burning of the fuel which means you are extracting all of the BTU's the fuel contains, thus increasing power. It's the same principle of snorkeling, would you rather use a straw from McDonalds or an actual snorkel? If you were under water and breathing through a straw, you wouldn't have the energy to expend on swimming because of your reduced ability to take in air, with a snorkel, it is much easier to breathe and provide air to your muscles.
Your missing the part where a snorkel a bigger object for your mouth increasing the flow by having the mouth open more so your logic wouldn't make sense as both a stock and cai fit on the same stock throttle body which means same amount of air flow. So if your going to get a cai might as well get a bigger throttle body even though they are not that much bigger then stock and maybe have little difference. Using a cai on a stock throttle body would be the same as the stock box.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:34 PM   #24
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Ok.... You win! Obviously you don't know much about fluid dynamics or the fact that stock air boxes are very restrictive. I understand what you are saying about the throttle body and that is true, which is why if you upgrade your intake and exhaust you really need to go through the whole system, ie. CAI, Throttle Body, Intake Manifold, full length headers, high flow cats, and less restrictive pipes out the back. The point is, you do get gains, whether its worth it to you or not, you cannot deny that there are gains to be made. But then again I'm guessing you're the type when after losing a race, you say it's Bc he has this or that... Etc.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:45 PM   #25
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You can disagree with the gains all you want, but the fact of the matter is more air = more complete burning of the fuel which means you are extracting all of the BTU's the fuel contains, thus increasing power. It's the same principle of snorkeling, would you rather use a straw from McDonalds or an actual snorkel? If you were under water and breathing through a straw, you wouldn't have the energy to expend on swimming because of your reduced ability to take in air, with a snorkel, it is much easier to breathe and provide air to your muscles.
You can compare a CAI to a carburetor. a 650 cfm carb ALLOWS that much air in, a CAI does not supply more air, it supposedly allows the intake to take in cooler air. a 650 cfm carb will NOT allow MORE air, it can only supply as much as the throttle plates allow. The throttle body does the same for the coyote, it can only allow so much air. The CAI, is just a plastic tube, with an open element on the end, and they try to shield the engine compartment hot air from the intake. The stock CAI is already doing this, with the same throttlebody, does the CAI magically allow more air in through the same throttlebody? It's just alot of hype, and the aftermarket is having a field day making people believe that it magically allows more air through the same opening.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:56 PM   #26
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Ok.... You win! Obviously you don't know much about fluid dynamics or the fact that stock air boxes are very restrictive. I understand what you are saying about the throttle body and that is true, which is why if you upgrade your intake and exhaust you really need to go through the whole system, ie. CAI, Throttle Body, Intake Manifold, full length headers, high flow cats, and less restrictive pipes out the back. The point is, you do get gains, whether its worth it to you or not, you cannot deny that there are gains to be made. But then again I'm guessing you're the type when after losing a race, you say it's Bc he has this or that... Etc.
You gain maybe 1-3 hp realistically from cai. Nothing you will notice and nothing that will win you a race or any significance. No Im not that type of guy because I have yet to lose a race. I'm getting a roush sc and will be using their air box and not some 300 dollar overpriced cosmetic air filter that will only give a few hp that I will never notice
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Old 02-02-2013, 07:29 AM   #27
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You are correct, I didn't disagree with that, but I did disagree with the fact people were saying that it hardly gives any power. My Dyno sheets showed 18 HP gain and 20 TQ gain from stock to 93 performance without a CAI. The only thing I was stating before is that they can squeeze more HP out of a tune based on the cars ability to breath more air (volume) at a lower velocity (speed), by doing this you can in theory change the MAF sensor and adjust the fuel mapping to A) run more efficiently (less vacuum created) and B) create more power based off of the fuel mapping. It's the same principle with forced induction, more air = better burning fuel. Which is how they create more power with more boost, the CAI on a N/A engine should reduce the amount of vacuum the engine needs "suck" to pull in the air.
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Originally Posted by Maverick2004054 View Post
You can disagree with the gains all you want, but the fact of the matter is more air = more complete burning of the fuel which means you are extracting all of the BTU's the fuel contains, thus increasing power. It's the same principle of snorkeling, would you rather use a straw from McDonalds or an actual snorkel? If you were under water and breathing through a straw, you wouldn't have the energy to expend on swimming because of your reduced ability to take in air, with a snorkel, it is much easier to breathe and provide air to your muscles.
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Ok.... You win! Obviously you don't know much about fluid dynamics or the fact that stock air boxes are very restrictive. I understand what you are saying about the throttle body and that is true, which is why if you upgrade your intake and exhaust you really need to go through the whole system, ie. CAI, Throttle Body, Intake Manifold, full length headers, high flow cats, and less restrictive pipes out the back. The point is, you do get gains, whether its worth it to you or not, you cannot deny that there are gains to be made. But then again I'm guessing you're the type when after losing a race, you say it's Bc he has this or that... Etc.
Your gains from your CAI are false. And your explanations are even worst.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:08 PM   #28
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Your gains from your CAI are false. And your explanations are even worst.
Once again, I'm done arguing with people who obviously have no formal knowledge of engineering. Let alone the ability to use proper English, it's worse, not worst! And the arguments I have made are utilizing basic engineering principles as well as physics, your arguments are based off of what you heard and what you like personally, show me in a text book or any other technical journal where the gains from CAI are false or fabricated? Then, I will show you in actual engineering documentation that you sir are wrong. I'm done arguing and trying to dumb things down for people who can not understand simple basic principles.

P.s. to the guy who claimed that having the hood open and having a fan running to keep the "radiator" cool and described that as forced induction, you sir are a F***ing moron, a ram fan can hardly put out enough CFM's to produce any measurable gains by the engine and is just there to keep the stationary vehicle cool. If anyone else would like to continue arguing about this feel free to pm me. Just to give you a little bit of background on me please see below.

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Old 02-02-2013, 08:20 PM   #29
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I think the simple matter is that a cai is not worth the money for the little hp you get. Alot of scs have their own air box. Which I think works best for heat and cool seperation then some open filter with a heat wall for it. Cai is more of a cosmetic then an actual power adder. 300 bucks for at most 5 hp with a tune doesn't justify it at all. A full exhaust system for 1500 more will give you around 30 hp including headers. That's money we'll spent

---------- Post added at 08:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

As I said before the open air filter still has to go through the same stock intake manifold and throttle body which isn't going to increase airflow significantly. If you did both of those then yeah you will see good gains
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:08 AM   #30
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I think the simple matter is that a cai is not worth the money for the little hp you get. Alot of scs have their own air box. Which I think works best for heat and cool seperation then some open filter with a heat wall for it. Cai is more of a cosmetic then an actual power adder. 300 bucks for at most 5 hp with a tune doesn't justify it at all. A full exhaust system for 1500 more will give you around 30 hp including headers. That's money we'll spent

---------- Post added at 08:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:18 PM ----------

As I said before the open air filter still has to go through the same stock intake manifold and throttle body which isn't going to increase airflow significantly. If you did both of those then yeah you will see good gains
Didn't you read the post above? Without an engineering degree your post doesn't count.
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Old 02-03-2013, 06:24 AM   #31
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Once again, I'm done arguing with people who obviously have no formal knowledge of engineering. Let alone the ability to use proper English, it's worse, not worst! And the arguments I have made are utilizing basic engineering principles as well as physics, your arguments are based off of what you heard and what you like personally, show me in a text book or any other technical journal where the gains from CAI are false or fabricated? Then, I will show you in actual engineering documentation that you sir are wrong. I'm done arguing and trying to dumb things down for people who can not understand simple basic principles.

P.s. to the guy who claimed that having the hood open and having a fan running to keep the "radiator" cool and described that as forced induction, you sir are a F***ing moron, a ram fan can hardly put out enough CFM's to produce any measurable gains by the engine and is just there to keep the stationary vehicle cool. If anyone else would like to continue arguing about this feel free to pm me. Just to give you a little bit of background on me please see below.

Graduate of the United States Merchant Marine Academy with a degree in Marine Systems Engineering and a Minor in Naval Architecture as well as Fluid Dynamics.

Currently working in Systems Engineering for the U.S. Government.
Guy, I agree with everyone else in this thread. There have been multiple tests done on the track to prove that these CAIs have negligible gains. No increase from trap speeds or e.t.'s and dynos even show gains within a margin of error. Most dynos show 3-5 hp gains, not enough to substantiate gains or 20-30 hp from a CAI.

Also, a point was given earlier in which you completely ignored. Just because a intake tube can support xxx amount of airflow does not mean that the engine will use xxx amount of airflow. An 80 mm throttle body is pretty big and the motor uses quite a lot of air already. Unless you draw more air into the motor (which a CAI CANNOT do for an engine, it only allows more air to flow which is pretty well maximized with the stock air box) it will not create more power
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:42 AM   #32
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:25 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrabberBlue5.0 View Post

Guy, I agree with everyone else in this thread. There have been multiple tests done on the track to prove that these CAIs have negligible gains. No increase from trap speeds or e.t.'s and dynos even show gains within a margin of error. Most dynos show 3-5 hp gains, not enough to substantiate gains or 20-30 hp from a CAI.

Also, a point was given earlier in which you completely ignored. Just because a intake tube can support xxx amount of airflow does not mean that the engine will use xxx amount of airflow. An 80 mm throttle body is pretty big and the motor uses quite a lot of air already. Unless you draw more air into the motor (which a CAI CANNOT do for an engine, it only allows more air to flow which is pretty well maximized with the stock air box) it will not create more power
I agree with you to a certain point, the stock air box and the stock throttle body only allow a certain amount of airflow through each component. Where people are getting my argument confused is the fact that the gains are substantiated through a larger intake tube, not due to the amount of air, but the velocity of air. By slowing down the velocity of the air I.e. creating a larger tube. You have to reprogram the engine to account for that decrease in velocity and account for an increase in volume flowing past the MAF sensor, this is all done before the throttle body. That also means that there is a choke point at the throttle body, unless upgraded. This is why most mustangs require a tune to utilize the CAI properly and why some intakes come with an insert that increases velocity past the MAF sensor. The JLT sees high gains when coupled with a tune because 1) you cant operate a stock engine with a JLT intake due to this effect, and 2) the tune is able to account for the lower velocity air by changing the MAF sensors readings and the fuel mapping for the engine. This is where the gains are made, not with the tube itself, but in the diameter and tuning adjustments.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:24 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick2004054 View Post
Once again, I'm done arguing with people who obviously have no formal knowledge of engineering. Let alone the ability to use proper English, it's worse, not worst! And the arguments I have made are utilizing basic engineering principles as well as physics, your arguments are based off of what you heard and what you like personally, show me in a text book or any other technical journal where the gains from CAI are false or fabricated? Then, I will show you in actual engineering documentation that you sir are wrong. I'm done arguing and trying to dumb things down for people who can not understand simple basic principles.

P.s. to the guy who claimed that having the hood open and having a fan running to keep the "radiator" cool and described that as forced induction, you sir are a F***ing moron, a ram fan can hardly put out enough CFM's to produce any measurable gains by the engine and is just there to keep the stationary vehicle cool. If anyone else would like to continue arguing about this feel free to pm me. Just to give you a little bit of background on me please see below.

Graduate of the United States Merchant Marine Academy with a degree in Marine Systems Engineering and a Minor in Naval Architecture as well as Fluid Dynamics.

Currently working in Systems Engineering for the U.S. Government.
That would be me Mother ****er....You better watch your ****ing mouth talking to me PUNK!
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:34 PM   #35
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Or what? Because you claimed that a fan outside a vehicle is forced induction, which is completely false, you want to come at me? Good luck!
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