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Old 03-15-2013, 11:31 AM   #36
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Yes u can do all these things. Again I think it should and could be offered as AWD. It would be much faster and just as much fun.
We're just now getting IRS (which should be an option). I think many of the things people suggest would be really cool. But many of these things aren't for Mustangs. I believe AWD is one of them, plus the price would send it into the mid $40's easy. Mustangs are raw unapologetic muscle cars. In some respects, it probably shouldn't even have traction control.
Maybe Mercury should re-introduce the Cougar as a 4 banger Turbo, AWD, 8 speed auto, with neon underlighting and a huge rear wing.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:15 PM   #37
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If you want an awd mustang you should be taken behind the barn and shot. Go buy an import.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:04 PM   #38
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AWD is a crutch and many cars are converted to RWD from AWD in REAL racing.

AND an AWD car would NOT be much faster as Tinman stated. It would be significantly slower.

MORE weight and SIGNIFICANTLY more drivetrain loss.

Example, S197 3V will dyno 255-265 at 300 HP.

At 305 HP an AWD STI will dyno 225-235. Until you're talking big WHEEL HP numbers (when loss is already accounted for), the AWD will ALWAYS be slower. It will just be more practical in all weather and launch with little effort or skill required.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:12 PM   #39
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Yes u can do all these things. Again I think it should and could be offered as AWD. It would be much faster and just as much fun.
It takes a lot more effort, I can go through a light in 2nd gear with trac off and kick the back end out super easily. Not so easy in AWD, Mustangs are meant to have raw power and be unforgiving.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:26 PM   #40
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It takes a lot more effort, I can go through a light in 2nd gear with trac off and kick the back end out super easily. Not so easy in AWD, Mustangs are meant to have raw power and be unforgiving.
Most AWD cars are FWD platforms with a transfer case and a part time rear axle.

The STi at least is a straight engine and with a stiff sway bar easily kicks out the rear.

Not that I ever understood drifting and why anyone likes it.
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Old 03-15-2013, 04:35 PM   #41
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Cheap and cheerful? You watch top gear uk, right?
You mean Top Gear...who doesn't watch Top Gear?! That is a pretty common phrase, though.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:09 PM   #42
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At 305 HP an AWD STI will dyno 225-235. Until you're talking big WHEEL HP numbers (when loss is already accounted for), the AWD will ALWAYS be slower. It will just be more practical in all weather and launch with little effort or skill required.

WOW I CALL BS! AWD is notoriously hard to launch well !

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Most AWD cars are FWD platforms with a transfer case and a part time rear axle.

The STi at least is a straight engine and with a stiff sway bar easily kicks out the rear.

Not that I ever understood drifting and why anyone likes it.
Most AWD cars are NOT FWD cars to start. At least not any performance ones, they usually have to redesign too much.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:24 PM   #43
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I don't see what the big deal is. It is just a car name. If they want to offer awd let them, just as long as they keep rwd as well. I think it would be a smart move on fords part to offer awd so it could compete against audis, bmws, and every other car that has it right now.
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Old 03-15-2013, 05:26 PM   #44
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Id get a awd mustang and be proud to drive it
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Old 03-15-2013, 06:55 PM   #45
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I'd get a Camaro before an AWD Mustang
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:13 PM   #46
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Id get a awd mustang and be proud to drive it
+1

---------- Post added at 07:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 PM ----------

I bet an awd mustang would be a rwd one anyways.
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #47
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If you would druve a chevy before a ford then why would you get a mustang in the first place? Ever driven a a4? There awd and it had a 4cyl not even turboed and we got up to 120 pretty damn fast think what it could have done with a super charged v8 ? The thing would be fast as hell
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Old 03-15-2013, 09:28 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billymich View Post
WOW I CALL BS! AWD is notoriously hard to launch well !



Most AWD cars are NOT FWD cars to start. At least not any performance ones, they usually have to redesign too much.
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If you would druve a chevy before a ford then why would you get a mustang in the first place? Ever driven a a4? There awd and it had a 4cyl not even turboed and we got up to 120 pretty damn fast think what it could have done with a super charged v8 ? The thing would be fast as hell
AWD car is NOT notoriosly hard to launch. Only for people who hav no idea what they're doing. I've been there, dont that. It is a CRUTCH.

An evo for example is a FWD platfom. FACT. An A4 has to be one of the slowest cars in existence. That comment right there shows me you have much to learn. Not trying to start an argument but you can not just say things that are simply untrue and expect them to sneak by.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:54 PM   #49
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By what standards are we measuring speed? An A4 isn't one of the slowest cars out there anyway. His point was that for a four banger awd it was quick so with a awd super charged v8 it would be extremely fast.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:02 AM   #50
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By what standards are we measuring speed? An A4 isn't one of the slowest cars out there anyway. His point was that for a four banger awd it was quick so with a awd super charged v8 it would be extremely fast.
+11111 how many threads are there about better traction at te drag? You know how fast a 1/4 mile time would be?
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:11 AM   #51
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takes more hp to turn the extra wheels so technically it would be slower taking traction out of the equation
I think a mustang would be much quicker with an AWD set up
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:17 AM   #52
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By what standards are we measuring speed? An A4 isn't one of the slowest cars out there anyway. His point was that for a four banger awd it was quick so with a awd super charged v8 it would be extremely fast.
Now we've leaped to AWD SC V8. So now the GT will cost as much as. GT500.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:24 AM   #53
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By what standards are we measuring speed? An A4 isn't one of the slowest cars out there anyway. His point was that for a four banger awd it was quick so with a awd super charged v8 it would be extremely fast.
So now we've jumped to a AWD SC V8. Which would cost the same as a GT500.
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Old 03-16-2013, 12:48 AM   #54
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So now we've jumped to a AWD SC V8. Which would cost the same as a GT500.
Exactly. And it would be faster than too
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Old 03-16-2013, 07:33 AM   #55
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. I think it would be a smart move on fords part to offer awd so it could compete against audis, bmws, and every other car that has it right now.
Sorry, but I don't see or want a Ford (let alone a Mustang) to compete with any luxury brands, outside of stats like how the BOSS LS was better than an M3 around the track. And as for "most" AWD cars starting as RWD, maybe the BMWs and Benzes start as RWD but none of those are known for their AWD performance (quite the opposite actually). Most AWD performers are either engineered for it from the get go (Subaru) or converted from FWD (Audi, Mitsubishi and most others).

In summary, keep the Mustang simple. If people want something AWD and V8 from Ford, then maybe we should dream of a Taurus replacement that is merged with the AU Falcon that could potentially offer it as an option.
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Old 03-16-2013, 08:30 AM   #56
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I think the BRZ is a prime example of this debate. Many wanted and thought the BRZ would be AWD and the toyota version would be RWD. Subaru opted for RWD on theirs as well. Having AWD would've drove up the cost of a car that could already cost you almost the price of a Mustang GT. And many consider RWD to be more fun and that's really what this car is about. I've also heard that AWD would've forced them to raise the engine a bit. This car has a very low centre of gravity and they wouldn't want to mess with that.

I personally was hoping the BRZ would have AWD. Having an AWD sport car to drive all year round would be great. And I wouldn't be opposed to Ford or anyone making an affordable AWD sport car. For a Mustang though? Idk, I guess I could see it. Especially with the 2015 supposed to be more "Euro". And I wouldn't be opposed to it personally. RWD would have to be standard and AWD as an option or only on a select model. Will it happen though? Probably not.
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Old 03-18-2013, 10:40 AM   #57
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By what standards are we measuring speed? An A4 isn't one of the slowest cars out there anyway. His point was that for a four banger awd it was quick so with a awd super charged v8 it would be extremely fast.
NO. You guys are just spewing incorrect information. If 2 cars are AWD drive and everything else being the same, the AWD car will be SLOWER. That is a fact. Not an opinion. This is not a debate. You guys are OBVIOUSLY heavily misinformed and have never researched this.

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+11111 how many threads are there about better traction at te drag? You know how fast a 1/4 mile time would be?
A 1/4 time would NOT be much faster if at all.

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I think a mustang would be much quicker with an AWD set up
Simply put? NO.

Example.

If they made 2 Mustangs. Both the same specs except one had AWD these are numbers one could expect. Lets use the S197 for example.

3460 lb RWD Mustang with 300HP dynos 265WHP (The only REAL number that counts)

ADD AWD and AWD drivetrain powerloess and it would be something like this:

3800 lb AWD Mustang with 300HP would dyno about 225-235WHP while ALSO being heavier, taller (more drag).

SO you pin these cars against each other in a 1/4 mile drag. Lets use a typical 1/4 mile run for an S197 stock manual.

the RWD would run 13. 6 with a 1.90 60' foot at 102 MPH

The AWD would run 13.6 with a 1.80 60' foot at 97MPH

The RWD car is faster despite the same time which is apparent in the trap speed. An AWD car SEEMS faster because of it's down low traction but the power its wasted running the AWD drive train through the wheels will slow it down and the weight as well. The RWD is almost 3-4 MPH faster (which is HUGE) and showing it is pulling on the AWD car and caught back to tie it and as the race would go further say 1/2 mile or mile, the Mustang would burn the AWD Mustang worse and worse.

Does it make sense now?

And yes, An A4, ANY GENERATION is one of the slowest cars you can get. The current A4 can run a low 15 or high 14 @ 90 MPH. 90! Showing that it gained most of its speed at the jump and fell flat on its face after 60. A low 15 or high 14 is a SLOW *** car.

A Toyota Camry V6 has gone 14.1s @ 101MPH on an auto by simply punching the gas until the race is over. That is ELEVEN MPH faster than an A4. A simple granny Camry.

AWD cars are NOT faster. They are only 1/4 mile friendly and their trap speed is all the evidence you need to show you how much they suffer.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:08 AM   #58
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NO. You guys are just spewing incorrect information. If 2 cars are AWD drive and everything else being the same, the AWD car will be SLOWER. That is a fact. Not an opinion. This is not a debate. You guys are OBVIOUSLY heavily misinformed and have never researched this.



A 1/4 time would NOT be much faster if at all.



Simply put? NO.

Example.

If they made 2 Mustangs. Both the same specs except one had AWD these are numbers one could expect. Lets use the S197 for example.

3460 lb RWD Mustang with 300HP dynos 265WHP (The only REAL number that counts)

ADD AWD and AWD drivetrain powerloess and it would be something like this:

3800 lb AWD Mustang with 300HP would dyno about 225-235WHP while ALSO being heavier, taller (more drag).

SO you pin these cars against each other in a 1/4 mile drag. Lets use a typical 1/4 mile run for an S197 stock manual.

the RWD would run 13. 6 with a 1.90 60' foot at 102 MPH

The AWD would run 13.6 with a 1.80 60' foot at 97MPH

The RWD car is faster despite the same time which is apparent in the trap speed. An AWD car SEEMS faster because of it's down low traction but the power its wasted running the AWD drive train through the wheels will slow it down and the weight as well. The RWD is almost 3-4 MPH faster (which is HUGE) and showing it is pulling on the AWD car and caught back to tie it and as the race would go further say 1/2 mile or mile, the Mustang would burn the AWD Mustang worse and worse.

Does it make sense now?

And yes, An A4, ANY GENERATION is one of the slowest cars you can get. The current A4 can run a low 15 or high 14 @ 90 MPH. 90! Showing that it gained most of its speed at the jump and fell flat on its face after 60. A low 15 or high 14 is a SLOW *** car.

A Toyota Camry V6 has gone 14.1s @ 101MPH on an auto by simply punching the gas until the race is over. That is ELEVEN MPH faster than an A4. A simple granny Camry.

AWD cars are NOT faster. They are only 1/4 mile friendly and their trap speed is all the evidence you need to show you how much they suffer.
+100

But no one listens. They will try to compare a SC AWD to a stock RWD and say it's faster. It's ridiculous and claim it's faster than a GT500, yeah right.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:16 AM   #59
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+100

But no one listens. They will try to compare a SC AWD to a stock RWD and say it's faster. It's ridiculous and claim it's faster than a GT500, yeah right.
Now, when talking modded, it is a bit more fair since WHP loss numbers from an AWD are already accounted for when dynoing modded cars.

An AWD Mustang is not out of the realm of possibility, nor is it a BAD thing, but definitely not better. It's best attribute is being drivable all year round but if they sold both versions, mod for mod the RWD will always be faster.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:34 AM   #60
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Now, when talking modded, it is a bit more fair since WHP loss numbers from an AWD are already accounted for when dynoing modded cars.

An AWD Mustang is not out of the realm of possibility, nor is it a BAD thing, but definitely not better. It's best attribute is being drivable all year round but if they sold both versions, mod for mod the RWD will always be faster.
Agreed.
My argument was the price point of building an AWD car with the increased HP/Torque to compensate for the additional weight and drivetrain will be very expensive and probably not worth it.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:39 AM   #61
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Agreed.
My argument was the price point of building an AWD car with the increased HP/Torque to compensate for the additional weight and drivetrain will be very expensive and probably not worth it.
The Mustang has already increased in price SIMPLY because of how popular it became since the 3V. It would jump another 5-7k.

I doubt they (or any company) would offer 2 versions of a sports cars since most companies take losses on sports cars. Without V6 sales there is no GT.

So, to have an AWD Stang, the bay and chassis would undergo heavy modifications and it would not be cost effective for anyone to offer an AWD and RWD version of the same sports car.
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Old 03-18-2013, 06:15 PM   #62
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I don't see what the big deal is. It is just a car name. If they want to offer awd let them, just as long as they keep rwd as well. I think it would be a smart move on fords part to offer awd so it could compete against audis, bmws, and every other car that has it right now.
That's all I'm saying.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:36 PM   #63
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That's all I'm saying.
But it isn't as simple as adding RWD. It would be two different cars with the same name.

Additionally, the Mustang does not and will never compete with those cars as they do not even have the same target audience.
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Old 03-18-2013, 09:00 PM   #64
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Someone mentioned awd so they could drive it all year. Why?

I bought a rear wheel drive car for....rear wheel drive. If I couldn't handle rear wheel drive in winter, I would have gotten the Focus ST or Roushcharged Focus.

I get everything else for an AWD Mustang, but that would be the downfall is being forced to have four wheel traction. Now, a 4x4 Mustang wouldn't be as bad lol
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:32 PM   #65
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Dang, this has got everyone's panties in a bunch. I think they should offer an awd mustang, not eliminate the rwd, just have it as an option. I think it would be a smart move on fords part, that way the mustang brand could branch out into other motor sports, where awd is better. I would buy one, even if it wasn't as fast in a straight line as a rwd, it would be better in the corners.
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Old 03-18-2013, 11:34 PM   #66
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You guys are all forgetting about what a Mustang is. It's not supposed to be a car to have amazing traction off the line with regular tires, it's not meant to have that amazing handling through corners, it's meant to have a ton of raw power and be unforgiving. If I wanted AWD I would have gotten an EVO
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Old 03-19-2013, 12:04 AM   #67
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Dang, this has got everyone's panties in a bunch. I think they should offer an awd mustang, not eliminate the rwd, just have it as an option. I think it would be a smart move on fords part, that way the mustang brand could branch out into other motor sports, where awd is better. I would buy one, even if it wasn't as fast in a straight line as a rwd, it would be better in the corners.
So you would pay $50,000 plus for an AWD mustang. Because it would a completely different mustang in addition to the current model. It's not like adding a $6,500 SC and its done. It's a ton and to only sell a handful at a very premium price. Do maybe not such a smart move on Fords part.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:03 AM   #68
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Can you do donuts in an AWD? Can you drift an AWD? Can you burnout an AWD? I think the fact that Mustangs are meant to be simple beasts means they should only be RWD.
Maybe you need to watch ken block...he pretty much does all of that. Also they drift the older GTRs which are awd as well.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:30 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiesrok

So you would pay $50,000 plus for an AWD mustang. Because it would a completely different mustang in addition to the current model. It's not like adding a $6,500 SC and its done. It's a ton and to only sell a handful at a very premium price. Do maybe not such a smart move on Fords part.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 93slowstang

Maybe you need to watch ken block...he pretty much does all of that. Also they drift the older GTRs which are awd as well.
An AWD Mustang would be like a carbon fiber Mustang...a crazy amount of money, not really very cost efficient, probably not get fully used, and most people would either never see it or wouldn't realize what it is.

Still, pretty cool.

Note: although I would never buy one, and I do not really want one, it seems like a cool idea. For a performance vehicle, i prefer over steer. I have only, spiritedly, driven 4x4s, no awds, and I find understeer is more common- which on a track I would rather spin out than slide off the course.
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:53 AM   #70
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You can spend $50,000 on a new mustang today. They should make a all carbon fiber awd mustang! It would be like the Bugatti, just cheaper.
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