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Old 04-22-2013, 10:59 AM   #36
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I just got off the phone with bama and im going to do some data logging, im also going to do some pulls at a dyno, how much you think theyll charge me for a pull?
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:04 PM   #37
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50 bucks for 2 pulls seems common.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:22 PM   #38
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On the 13 stang, we have the rear flap, usually with my stock tires theyre would be rubber residue left from the track day...and no i would not warm them up, now on the invo, there was no tire residue left what so ever, you think next time i should heat these babys
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:30 PM   #39
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Extra Rolling Diameter and weight will always play a factor.
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Old 04-22-2013, 03:15 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano View Post
On the 13 stang, we have the rear flap, usually with my stock tires theyre would be rubber residue left from the track day...and no i would not warm them up, now on the invo, there was no tire residue left what so ever, you think next time i should heat these babys
Testing like that can be hard to do because there are so manny variables but it is doable. Try launching at a consistent RPM like 1500 (throwing random #s) a few times with no burn then a few more times with a burn... Totally ignore the tree also and focus on consistent launch RPM otherwise your not going to get consistent results. Your 60' should tell the tale if the burn is helping or not... You probably know all this already but I figured its worth saying for anyone that may dig this thread up some time down the line.
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Old 04-22-2013, 04:16 PM   #41
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I went last night to the track and either my bama tune sucks or my tires are too heavy because i ran slower than stock.
My stock base auto 5.0 , 3.15 gears had the 18 inch rims with all season tires when stock.

Stock i ran:
60ft: 2.066
Speed:66.35
330ft: 5.555
Vehicle Speed: 86.33
Time 8.410
This was traction on, auto super stock.

Last night i ran on
Bmr lca
Bmr lca brackets
Bama Race tune
Catdelete with x pipe
20/35/275 front nitto invo
20/35/295 rear nitto invo

Droped to 25 pounds of air on the rear tires
Traction on
Best slip of the night

60ft: 2.166
Speed: 66.48
330ft: 5.657
Vehicle speed 84.61
Time: 8.509

I ran consistent 8.5 but my speed was slower than stock?????
I honestly think its my rims or that this tune sucks!

What do you guys think i should, compare total wieght of my stock rims to the new ones, run it on stock rims to see if its the tune or not? Or are the mods i have done on the car are too little to even perform better.which would make no ****ing sense because the car is tuned!
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There is also the possibilty which came to me today that maybe i should launch at less rpm that i was launching before.
Which rpm should i be launching at?
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Well idk if your in miami, but i went in December, it was about 70 degrees and barely much humidity.
Last night was much higher in degrees and the humidity was outrages! it rained right after i left.

Traction wasn't good, these tires are brand brand new and i wasnt launching that high in rpm.
I went to homestead speedway
OzzyLiriano,

I can completely understand your disappointment. Nobody wants to run a slower time after upgrading their Mustang, and I don't blame them!

However, for someone who's experienced at the drag strip, I think it's very clear why the time slips weren't as quick as before..

You mentioned the humidity was low and temperatures around 70* during your stock run, but the other night was humid and much hotter. The largest factor in this equation is Air Density. A large change in Air Density will drastically reduce the power of any engine!

Also, 60' times are everything when it comes to drag racing. Cutting a worse 60" from excessive wheel spin is an easy way to lower your ET and MPH! With the additional low end power of our Bama Performance tunes, you'll certainly have to ease the launch more. Some of AM's fastest times at the track were launched off of idle (street tires). Anything more and we easily lost traction.

On top of that, you're running a heavier wheel and thinner sidewall tire. I realize the Nitto Invo's are much sticker than factor tires, but a flexible sidewall is even more important in a situation like this.

Lastly... practice, practice, practice! Can't stress enough how much more seat time improve your times. Not to mention make you more consistent.

Hope these tips help you out with your next run. I think with the right conditions and proper driving, you'll be surprised what your Mustang can do over stock!

Shane
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Old 04-22-2013, 06:49 PM   #42
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Testing like that can be hard to do because there are so manny variables but it is doable. Try launching at a consistent RPM like 1500 (throwing random #s) a few times with no burn then a few more times with a burn... Totally ignore the tree also and focus on consistent launch RPM otherwise your not going to get consistent results. Your 60' should tell the tale if the burn is helping or not... You probably know all this already but I figured its worth saying for anyone that may dig this thread up some time down the line.
Yes i spoke to a guy and he also told me to launch at idle and he see what numbers i do, and start launching from there higher and higher rpm

---------- Post added at 05:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:45 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by AMShaneLesky View Post

OzzyLiriano,

I can completely understand your disappointment. Nobody wants to run a slower time after upgrading their Mustang, and I don't blame them!

However, for someone who's experienced at the drag strip, I think it's very clear why the time slips weren't as quick as before..

You mentioned the humidity was low and temperatures around 70* during your stock run, but the other night was humid and much hotter. The largest factor in this equation is Air Density. A large change in Air Density will drastically reduce the power of any engine!

Also, 60' times are everything when it comes to drag racing. Cutting a worse 60" from excessive wheel spin is an easy way to lower your ET and MPH! With the additional low end power of our Bama Performance tunes, you'll certainly have to ease the launch more. Some of AM's fastest times at the track were launched off of idle (street tires). Anything more and we easily lost traction.

On top of that, you're running a heavier wheel and thinner sidewall tire. I realize the Nitto Invo's are much sticker than factor tires, but a flexible sidewall is even more important in a situation like this.

Lastly... practice, practice, practice! Can't stress enough how much more seat time improve your times. Not to mention make you more consistent.

Hope these tips help you out with your next run. I think with the right conditions and proper driving, you'll be surprised what your Mustang can do over stock!

Shane
Thanks man, im in the hunt to find some drag radials and rims, my uncle gave me some but they dont fit my car. Ill check out your site soon, ive been talking to alot of ppl after friday night and they mentioned everything you said, i appreciate your help and like always you guys have the best customer service.
Im also sending alex my data logging just to make everything is good.
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:41 PM   #43
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No question the DA is a factor here but the performance is still weak, even taking that into account. This is a mid-13s performance in the 1/4, which is pathetic for one of these cars.

This is a race tune. No way, no how my 91 octane super-safe canned Ford Procal tune should even be in the same ballpark, much less 4+ mph faster by the eighth in a similar car in similar conditions (humidity is a big factor at my track, too).
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:57 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by rebeltx

Testing like that can be hard to do because there are so manny variables but it is doable. Try launching at a consistent RPM like 1500 (throwing random #s) a few times with no burn then a few more times with a burn... Totally ignore the tree also and focus on consistent launch RPM otherwise your not going to get consistent results. Your 60' should tell the tale if the burn is helping or not... You probably know all this already but I figured its worth saying for anyone that may dig this thread up some time down the line.
Good advice
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Old 04-22-2013, 07:58 PM   #45
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No question the DA is a factor here but the performance is still weak, even taking that into account. This is a mid-13s performance in the 1/4, which is pathetic for one of these cars.

This is a race tune. No way, no how my 91 octane super-safe canned Ford Procal tune should even be in the same ballpark, much less 4+ mph faster by the eighth in a similar car in similar conditions (humidity is a big factor at my track, too).
Thats what im thinking, i mean what is the average times for these 5.0 stock at the 1/8 with stock wheels...havent seen faster than 8.3, but with a tune i shouldve gone atleast 8.0, when i said i was tuned all my friends laughed at me, there was ppl with aed tune and lund tune running 7.9 and 7.11, all stock, just tune.
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Old 04-22-2013, 08:40 PM   #46
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There's no doubt your choice of rims/tires and the DA factor in here; I just can't see it being the whole equation, unless you had the most colossal brain fart and forgot entirely how to drive your own car (tough to imagine having trouble here with an automatic car).

The advice to walk it out of the hole on those wagon wheels and gripless tires is totally sound, though.

M/T, Nitto, etc. all make a 20" drag radial though....might work ok since you have a soft-geared juice box.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:08 PM   #47
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There's no doubt your choice of rims/tires and the DA factor in here; I just can't see it being the whole equation, unless you had the most colossal brain fart and forgot entirely how to drive your own car (tough to imagine having trouble here with an automatic car).

The advice to walk it out of the hole on those wagon wheels and gripless tires is totally sound, though.

M/T, Nitto, etc. all make a 20" drag radial though....might work ok since you have a soft-geared juice box.
Idk man i want to dyno, which numbers should i be at with my setup?
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:08 PM   #48
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410-420rwhp with stock wheels and tires on there.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:10 PM   #49
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410-420rwhp with stock wheels and tires on there.
Would my wheels affect a dyno pull?
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:17 PM   #50
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410-420rwhp with stock wheels and tires on there.
ehhh maybe. The auto doesn't have a 1:1 gear ratio like the manual. Closest is .08 so its numbers will be slightly off from a manual. A manual with those mods would show around 410-420. Not saying autos are bad, just because of the gearing they will show different numbers.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:22 PM   #51
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ehhh maybe. The auto doesn't have a 1:1 gear ratio like the manual. Closest is .08 so its numbers will be slightly off from a manual. A manual with those mods would show around 410-420. Not saying autos are bad, just because of the gearing they will show different numbers.
You know i met with a couple of guys and they shared a lot of knowledge, will share soon....but im asking if my rims will affect the dyno pulls compared to using my stock wheels...lets just these ppl have stock coyote engines and are running 10.40, yes slicks but the guy told me we worry too much about hp, we forget a lot of the suspension and tires and components that transfer the power from engine to the wheels
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:25 PM   #52
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Any mass you add to the wheels is effectively a minus in the power delivered to the rollers. More meaningful is whether it is close to factory diameter, as that affects overall gearing. Gearing doesn't alter real power but it does affect acceleration hugely.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:31 PM   #53
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You know i met with a couple of guys and they shared a lot of knowledge, will share soon....but im asking if my rims will affect the dyno pulls compared to using my stock wheels...lets just these ppl have stock coyote engines and are running 10.40, yes slicks but the guy told me we worry too much about hp, we forget a lot of the suspension and tires and components that transfer the power from engine to the wheels
This! I've said it many times and I'll say it again - if I could go back I wouldn't have wasted any money on adding power until I had my suspension done and a decent set of wheels and tires. It's all a waste since the stock 412-420 HP is more than enough to overwhelm the stock suspension and narrow tires.
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Old 04-22-2013, 10:32 PM   #54
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Any mass you add to the wheels is effectively a minus in the power delivered to the rollers. More meaningful is whether it is close to factory diameter, as that affects overall gearing. Gearing doesn't alter real power but it does affect acceleration hugely.
This, but also too you have to keep in mind, without a stock pull it is kinda a guessing game. Unless your numbers end up being real bad, it might be hard to say there is a problem without a stock pull to compare it too.

Just seeing stock 5.0 stangs running on dynos we've seen 20+ HP differences. These can come from the dyno type to each car being slightly different etc.

Plus, I always love to remind people of the Toyota Supra. The supra was well known for being easy to push 1000HP to the wheels. The funny part was that you could have a 1000HP supra run 7s on the 1/4 Mile and a 1000HP supras that would run 13s. So generally when you saw a 1000HP supra for sale for cheap, it wasn't a 7s supra. lol.
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Old 04-23-2013, 12:10 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano

You know i met with a couple of guys and they shared a lot of knowledge, will share soon....but im asking if my rims will affect the dyno pulls compared to using my stock wheels...lets just these ppl have stock coyote engines and are running 10.40, yes slicks but the guy told me we worry too much about hp, we forget a lot of the suspension and tires and components that transfer the power from engine to the wheels
The guy knew what he was talking about.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:14 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano View Post

You know i met with a couple of guys and they shared a lot of knowledge, will share soon....but im asking if my rims will affect the dyno pulls compared to using my stock wheels...lets just these ppl have stock coyote engines and are running 10.40, yes slicks but the guy told me we worry too much about hp, we forget a lot of the suspension and tires and components that transfer the power from engine to the wheels
There are at least a handful of us that have been preaching this for quite some time.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:40 AM   #57
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He asked me how far i wanted to go drag racing, as in how much i wanted to spend, he said the car was too nice to mess up, i answered truthfully, not that far, i want a 11 sec car....you know how that story goes lol...but this is whats next on my list.
Set of dr
One piece drive shaft
K member
Breaks
Installing the suspension parts once i ha e everything together
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:54 AM   #58
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He asked me how far i wanted to go drag racing, as in how much i wanted to spend, he said the car was too nice to mess up, i answered truthfully, not that far, i want a 11 sec car....you know how that story goes lol...but this is whats next on my list.
Set of dr
One piece drive shaft
K member
Breaks
Installing the suspension parts once i ha e everything together
Oh shyt and gears!
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:51 AM   #59
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11 sec in a coyote is easy. Get lcas with relo brackets, uca with mount, decent springs, and slicks, and you'll be in the 11's no problem. O yea and tune. 3.15 is a good gear for the auto
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:10 AM   #60
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I would add an upper control arm (UCA) and UCA mount to that list. Your going to need every bit of help you can get when trying to get the power down. Especially with the drive shaft because you will be more likely to shock the tires loose at launch. You may be ok with a non adjustable UCA if you plan on keeping stock ride height. Big plus with an adjustable UCA is being able to dial in pinion angle properly. Either way, the harder bushings and less flex of an aftermarket UCA and mount would be beneficial.

If your after some affordable wheels to put radials on you can usually find some on Craig's list if you look hard and look often. Another option is swap meets, mustang clubs, and just asking around at the strip...

Good luck
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Old 04-23-2013, 09:09 AM   #61
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I put a 28"X10X16 Hoosier slick on some charming 00 base Mustang wheels. At 7.5" they are a touch narrow but, air down the tire and it's fine. Those rims were pretty much free.

I have a 3.73 car and I want to take a touch of gear out of it to stay in 4th through the stripe and ease the launch shock. We'll see how the car responds in May when the track opens. I pulled out 12.6s on ancient radials last year so, I'm shooting for 11s, full weight this year, fully optioned premium car.

You really need to think through all the things that you do and not just throw parts at the thing. It's about using minimal tech to get the results you want. I went shifter bracket first, Procal tune (for street, mainly), Roush UCA, new tires/wheels and now simple poly LCAs. I think I can do 11s or close to it, with this alone. I'm in under 900 bucks total, so far with alot better street manners and mileage thrown in.
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:49 AM   #62
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11 sec in a coyote is easy. Get lcas with relo brackets, uca with mount, decent springs, and slicks, and you'll be in the 11's no problem. O yea and tune. 3.15 is a good gear for the auto
Careful. There is a guy on here with an auto and 3.73 and FI who will tell you that you are wrong! Lol.

I agree 3.15 is good for the auto. Maybe to 3.31.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:22 PM   #63
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I feel like this thread is getting repetitive, he already has an "11 second car" as his projected mph in the 1/4 would be the same mph a 11 second car would run. It's obvious, here, that he's not getting the acceleration off of the line that he needs to. He can trap what could be an 11 second run all day, but until he cuts a 60ft in the less than 2 second range he isn't going to get there. His 3:15 gear ratio isn't going to hurt him in getting an 11 second run, and any gear ratio that is taller (3:73s, 4:10s, etc.) would only promote wheel spin off the line. There are formulas for net HP and some of the physics/ engineering majors will know what I am talking about. If he wants a "dyno run" he could take it to the track and crunch the numbers based off his weight, track length, and trap speed to see how much power his car is putting out. However, not an ounce of that matters unless that power is on the pavement.
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Old 04-23-2013, 03:38 PM   #64
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I feel like threads like this are repetitive, since it's already well established and clearly documented what is needed for an 11 second car.
Fixed that for ya.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:04 PM   #65
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Can anyone suggest, this being any auto drivers, which rpm you guys are launching, but please state your mods, and i will consider the uca, i will drop one inch soon, so adjustable would be the way to go right?

---------- Post added at 07:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:01 PM ----------

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Careful. There is a guy on here with an auto and 3.73 and FI who will tell you that you are wrong! Lol.

I agree 3.15 is good for the auto. Maybe to 3.31.
So i leave the gears alone at 3.15
Mods to be done:
0ne piece drive shaft
Uca
Drag radials.
Install my suspension
Right?
Im emailing bama today, should i post up my data logging? Any of yall familiar with reading these?
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:09 PM   #66
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If your staying n/a and getting drag radials there is no way I would stay with the 3.15 gears...3.73
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Old 04-24-2013, 08:57 AM   #67
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I feel like this thread is getting repetitive, he already has an "11 second car" as his projected mph in the 1/4 would be the same mph a 11 second car would run. It's obvious, here, that he's not getting the acceleration off of the line that he needs to. He can trap what could be an 11 second run all day, but until he cuts a 60ft in the less than 2 second range he isn't going to get there. His 3:15 gear ratio isn't going to hurt him in getting an 11 second run, and any gear ratio that is taller (3:73s, 4:10s, etc.) would only promote wheel spin off the line. There are formulas for net HP and some of the physics/ engineering majors will know what I am talking about. If he wants a "dyno run" he could take it to the track and crunch the numbers based off his weight, track length, and trap speed to see how much power his car is putting out. However, not an ounce of that matters unless that power is on the pavement.
Well, there's no totally legit way to project 1/8 mph into 1/4 mile mph then backwards-map 1/4 ET. However, roughly based on his previous best run, the car is still about a 13 second pass in the 1/4 so, while the "11 second car" may be partly disappearing in a cloud if tire smoke at the front end, it also looks like it got a few horses out in the pasture right now, as the previous best pass data would approximate 108 mph 1/4 which is a joke for a "race tune" and on the low side to reach 11s.
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Old 04-24-2013, 01:58 PM   #68
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Well, there's no totally legit way to project 1/8 mph into 1/4 mile mph then backwards-map 1/4 ET. However, roughly based on his previous best run, the car is still about a 13 second pass in the 1/4 so, while the "11 second car" may be partly disappearing in a cloud if tire smoke at the front end, it also looks like it got a few horses out in the pasture right now, as the previous best pass data would approximate 108 mph 1/4 which is a joke for a "race tune" and on the low side to reach 11s.
I understand your point there, but you can get very close because a couple of the variables do not change like distance and weight. Albeit, 108mph would be low for an 11 second run, I've seen 100 mid-low 12 second runs at 108mph and I've seen an high 11 second run at 112mph. The issue he is running into, is that the distance from when he stops spinning to the finish is not a consistent number, and there is no real way to calculate that. I was, more-less trying to make him feel better about his car with the post I made above. Sounds like he needs to data log a 1/4 mile run and send that in. That's what I always did with my lightning because they get to fine tune all the WOT points and set the timing accordingly off the line for a nice 60ft.
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:04 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by ZLwhat View Post

I understand your point there, but you can get very close because a couple of the variables do not change like distance and weight. Albeit, 108mph would be low for an 11 second run, I've seen 100 mid-low 12 second runs at 108mph and I've seen an high 11 second run at 112mph. The issue he is running into, is that the distance from when he stops spinning to the finish is not a consistent number, and there is no real way to calculate that. I was, more-less trying to make him feel better about his car with the post I made above. Sounds like he needs to data log a 1/4 mile run and send that in. That's what I always did with my lightning because they get to fine tune all the WOT points and set the timing accordingly off the line for a nice 60ft.
I am planning to do that if am tells me nothing is wrong, I'm ordering some drag wheels this week, if I don't run 7s I'm taking it to a dyno. Miami is never cold, yes it was colder and less humid but dammit I got some nice wide tires compared to the stocks and in my opnion, blaming my 20s that comined wiegh less than 100 pounds is bs....I did send them my data logs and I hope they fix it
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Old 04-24-2013, 02:07 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano View Post
I am planning to do that if am tells me nothing is wrong, I'm ordering some drag wheels this week, if I don't run 7s I'm taking it to a dyno. Miami is never cold, yes it was colder and less humid but dammit I got some nice wide tires compared to the stocks and in my opnion, blaming my 20s that comined wiegh less than 100 pounds is bs....I did send them my data logs and I hope they fix it
I don't believe for a min unless they are forged that your four 20s weigh less than 100 lbs with the tires on them. Maybe without the tires. I would believe they weigh around 120ish though.
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