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Old 04-20-2013, 05:42 PM   #1
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Not a Happy Camper

I went last night to the track and either my bama tune sucks or my tires are too heavy because i ran slower than stock.
My stock base auto 5.0 , 3.15 gears had the 18 inch rims with all season tires when stock.

Stock i ran:
60ft: 2.066
Speed:66.35
330ft: 5.555
Vehicle Speed: 86.33
Time 8.410
This was traction on, auto super stock.

Last night i ran on
Bmr lca
Bmr lca brackets
Bama Race tune
Catdelete with x pipe
20/35/275 front nitto invo
20/35/295 rear nitto invo
Droped to 25 pounds of air on the rear tires
Traction on
Best slip of the night

60ft: 2.166
Speed: 66.48
330ft: 5.657
Vehicle speed 84.61
Time: 8.509

I ran consistent 8.5 but my speed was slower than stock?????
I honestly think its my rims or that this tune sucks!

What do you guys think i should, compare total wieght of my stock rims to the new ones, run it on stock rims to see if its the tune or not? Or are the mods i have done on the car are too little to even perform better.which would make no ****ing sense because the car is tuned!
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Old 04-20-2013, 05:55 PM   #2
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There is also the possibilty which came to me today that maybe i should launch at less rpm that i was launching before.
Which rpm should i be launching at?
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:11 PM   #3
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You're new rims are probably quite a few lbs heavier than your stock 18's. A few extra lbs on the car won't hurt much, but if those lbs are on the wheels, then it will definitely be noticed. Also going from 18's to 20's slowed you down as well.

How was your traction both times?

If you still have your stock 18's, throw them on and go back to the track.

Other things to factor in is the conditions of both days. How was the weather? How was the track prepped? Both of those can have quite a noticeable impact on your times.

By the way, which strip did you go to?
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vik912 View Post
You're new rims are probably quite a few lbs heavier than your stock 18's. A few extra lbs on the car won't hurt much, but if those lbs are on the wheels, then it will definitely be noticed. Also going from 18's to 20's slowed you down as well.

How was your traction both times?

If you still have your stock 18's, throw them on and go back to the track.

Other things to factor in is the conditions of both days. How was the weather? How was the track prepped? Both of those can have quite a noticeable impact on your times.

By the way, which strip did you go to?
+11. If you can, next time you go to the track take your stock rims with you. Make a few runs on the new rims, then switch over to the stock ones. Launch at the same rpms both ways, and that will tell you how much a difference your stock rims vs new are making.
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Old 04-20-2013, 06:34 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vik912 View Post
You're new rims are probably quite a few lbs heavier than your stock 18's. A few extra lbs on the car won't hurt much, but if those lbs are on the wheels, then it will definitely be noticed. Also going from 18's to 20's slowed you down as well.

How was your traction both times?

If you still have your stock 18's, throw them on and go back to the track.

Other things to factor in is the conditions of both days. How was the weather? How was the track prepped? Both of those can have quite a noticeable impact on your times.

By the way, which strip did you go to?
Well idk if your in miami, but i went in December, it was about 70 degrees and barely much humidity.
Last night was much higher in degrees and the humidity was outrages! it rained right after i left.
Traction wasn't good, these tires are brand brand new and i wasnt launching that high in rpm.
I went to homestead speedway.

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Eturner View Post

+11. If you can, next time you go to the track take your stock rims with you. Make a few runs on the new rims, then switch over to the stock ones. Launch at the same rpms both ways, and that will tell you how much a difference your stock rims vs new are making.
Yeah but i mean i went from the stock 8 inch wide crappy tires to almost more than a foot of rubber! Didnt think i even needed to compare. Now when i get my work schedule straighten out, im going to dyno and run with the stock andddd launch at less rpms

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------

What do yall think is the time i should be running with mods that i have.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:26 PM   #6
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20's suck to drag with. Best times I could do with my 20's were 11.2 at 129 but I was pushing 615RWHP. Doesn't help I'm a crappy driver at the dragstrip.
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Old 04-20-2013, 07:35 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano View Post

Well idk if your in miami, but i went in December, it was about 70 degrees and barely much humidity.
Last night was much higher in degrees and the humidity was outrages! it rained right after i left.
Traction wasn't good, these tires are brand brand new and i wasnt launching that high in rpm.
I went to homestead speedway.

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------



Yeah but i mean i went from the stock 8 inch wide crappy tires to almost more than a foot of rubber! Didnt think i even needed to compare. Now when i get my work schedule straighten out, im going to dyno and run with the stock andddd launch at less rpms

---------- Post added at 05:34 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:33 PM ----------

What do yall think is the time i should be running with mods that i have.
Yeah, I'm just up in Fort Lauderdale.

The fact that you're current tires are wider than your stock ones, that helps. However, you now have a lower profile tire than before. A lower profile means shorter and stiffer sidewall. Stiffer sidewall = less traction.

I'm sure you're slower times are due to the conditions being a lot worse on your second go around, and due to your 20" rims.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:04 PM   #8
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That is pretty bad for your set-up. I'd imagine at the rate you were headed you would have run a 13.2-13.5 in the 1/4. A friend of mine just ran a 11.89 and he has:

6 speed auto
3:15s
Jon Lund tuning
Pypes off road X
Borla s types
Air raid CAI
BMR rear everything lol
15" dark stars with Hoosiers (stock fronts)
Spare and everything in trunk removed

I think he trapped 116 so there's still more room in there for improvement et wise. I'd imagine your wheels aren't helping any, but your car should be faster regardless.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:14 PM   #9
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That's hard to take I'm sure...but like some said maybe the different tire size hurt a lit...I know stock I ran about the same with a 8.42 and went other day after I got a bama race tune and cai and ran a 8.20 but traction was a lot worse..
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vik912 View Post
Yeah, I'm just up in Fort Lauderdale.

The fact that you're current tires are wider than your stock ones, that helps. However, you now have a lower profile tire than before. A lower profile means shorter and stiffer sidewall. Stiffer sidewall = less traction.

I'm sure you're slower times are due to the conditions being a lot worse on your second go around, and due to your 20" rims.
also with this, a silly question is, was the tire pressure checked before going and also while the tires were cool and not been driven on for a few hours?

I noticed this with my MT Street Comps, it went from 40 degrees out to 55 and my traction didn't seem to improve, almost felt worse. I've been keeping my tires around 35 PSI and checked them and of course they were higher at 39 PSI due too the warmer weather. 40PSI is max pressure for my tires, no wonder I was having trouble. Promptly lowered the PSI and had improved traction drastically.

just wondering since it was a warmer day as you said, if your PSI was off.
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Old 04-20-2013, 09:53 PM   #11
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All of these are good ideas, heavier wheels, lower profile tires means less sidewall, DA (both humidity and temp). But one thing I remember which you didn't mention (not because I think you're lying but you honestly probably just didn't know) is your Koni yellows. While these are great for road courses these are a far less than ideal damper for the drag strip. They do not allow for proper weight transfer to the rear and could be a large part of the reason your 60' is worse
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:14 PM   #12
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Yep, that's rough....I'm at 8.2 at 89 best on my 6mt 3.73 BBP car, full weight, all options but glass roof. That's a BIG mph hit, even for adding 20s. There should be more in the car than that, unless the DA was K2 level that day.

Procal tune, Roush upper and a Steeda bracket at the time only mods on mine, on tore up 7 year old 26" BFG DRs that'd barely hold a 1.9 60' best. I'm blowing out the back door at 12.6 at 112. I think there's an 11 in it, or close to, as it is, with a real tire.

I know it's not the same car, same day, same trans, blah but, that should give you a comparator of a really mild setup. Sounds like Bama "race" = fail here.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 20125.0 View Post
That's hard to take I'm sure...but like some said maybe the different tire size hurt a lit...I know stock I ran about the same with a 8.42 and went other day after I got a bama race tune and cai and ran a 8.20 but traction was a lot worse..
Out of the whole id agree traction was A LOT WORSE

---------- Post added at 09:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:35 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by nosympathy View Post

also with this, a silly question is, was the tire pressure checked before going and also while the tires were cool and not been driven on for a few hours?

I noticed this with my MT Street Comps, it went from 40 degrees out to 55 and my traction didn't seem to improve, almost felt worse. I've been keeping my tires around 35 PSI and checked them and of course they were higher at 39 PSI due too the warmer weather. 40PSI is max pressure for my tires, no wonder I was having trouble. Promptly lowered the PSI and had improved traction drastically.

just wondering since it was a warmer day as you said, if your PSI was off.
I usually am at 35 psi, dropped to 20 last night

---------- Post added at 09:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:36 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by GrabberBlue5.0 View Post
All of these are good ideas, heavier wheels, lower profile tires means less sidewall, DA (both humidity and temp). But one thing I remember which you didn't mention (not because I think you're lying but you honestly probably just didn't know) is your Koni yellows. While these are great for road courses these are a far less than ideal damper for the drag strip. They do not allow for proper weight transfer to the rear and could be a large part of the reason your 60' is worse
I haven't done niether the one inch drop, nor koni, nor panhard bar, nor steeda mounts,...just did bmr lca and brackets....
Why?
Remember my 5000 post about my front toooo low, well my 5.0 is my dd and im not doing those mods till i gwt my dd at the end of the summer, like i stated on the first post, i have those mods

---------- Post added at 09:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
Yep, that's rough....I'm at 8.2 at 89 best on my 6mt 3.73 BBP car, full weight, all options but glass roof. That's a BIG mph hit, even for adding 20s. There should be more in the car than that, unless the DA was K2 level that day.

Procal tune, Roush upper and a Steeda bracket at the time only mods on mine, on tore up 7 year old 26" BFG DRs that'd barely hold a 1.9 60' best. I'm blowing out the back door at 12.6 at 112. I think there's an 11 in it, or close to, as it is, with a real tire.

I know it's not the same car, same day, same trans, blah but, that should give you a comparator of a really mild setup. Sounds like Bama "race" = fail here.
Too be honest i did a performance tune with out the cat deletes and i beat my buddys 5.0 by a full car, before it was tie tie tie....that being said, i hear a leak in my jba o/xpipe i installed, which was tuned with the x pipe and race tune, and i felt like i lost that kick, i have yet to race my bud but idk man im calling am Monday
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:51 PM   #14
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20s' won't hurt you to this extreme...my guess, tune.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:54 PM   #15
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You mentioned LCA brackets, what mounting hole did you use? When you do a burnout does your rear end raise up substantially? If you used the lowest mounting hole (technically for lowered cars according to most) then there is a good chance your shocking the tires loose when you get on it from the line. The new LCA's would compound this issue. Even with the wider tire, your side wall has little give to it as someone mentioned, making it that much easier to break the tires free. If your in the lower hole on the mount I would bring it up one hole. try with TCT off as well (break+hold TCT), launch low and roll into throttle till about 2500-3k then pedal to metal... I honestly don't think there is a tune issue but have Bama talk you thru a data log just to be safe. I think you have great times hidden in your car but with the mods you describe the car will be acting very very different and you just need to feel it out... Start writing down things that you did each run on the back of time slips EX: TCT off, short burn, 1500 launch, spun off line... These are just random numbers and stuff but you could gather that you need to lower launch RPM, do a better burn or lower tire pressure... Go try... Make notes & compare results.

I go a little overboard, I have spread sheets and a note book I use. Recording everything you can think of and making note of mods and comparing results. I even had a camera pointed at my tach at one point for working shift point. I record EVERY run and compare. People say I'm a little crazy about it but the numbers don't lie as my times consistently drop.
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Old 04-20-2013, 10:58 PM   #16
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if you didn't lower why did you do relocation brackets? Further more what hole did you put the LCA in of the 3 available? I am hoping you are going to say the top of the three. That is for stock ride height. If it is in the middle or bottom hole that might be part of your issue.

---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:57 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by rebeltx View Post
You mentioned LCA brackets, what mounting hole did you use? When you do a burnout does your rear end raise up substantially? If you used the lowest mounting hole (technically for lowered cars according to most) then there is a good chance your shocking the tires loose when you get on it from the line. The new LCA's would compound this issue. Even with the wider tire, your side wall has little give to it as someone mentioned, making it that much easier to break the tires free. If your in the lower hole on the mount I would bring it up one hole. try with TCT off as well (break+hold TCT), launch low and roll into throttle till about 2500-3k then pedal to metal.
ehh sorta beat me to asking. Though see above for correct usage of the holes.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:10 PM   #17
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We're still not addressing the fact the car is slow mph-wise. Even completely blowing the launch shouldn't hit mph that hard. It dropped nearly 2 mph over previously and is 4+ mph slower than my milder setup. That's sure starting to sound like a tune issue.

Exhaust leaks won't help...nor will leaving the TC on at the track though.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:16 PM   #18
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I think there could be some suspension tuneing needed. And he just needs to feel the car out still. That's allot of mods from stock, it's going to take some learning

---------- Post added at 11:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 PM ----------

I would still have Bama data log you. Surely wouldn't hurt
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:26 PM   #19
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Also the nitto invo tires are not drag slicks and by dropping the PSI out of the ideal range which probably is about 35PSI you are actually destroying your traction. Don't set them to 25PSI. If you want to lower the PSI like that go get some good racing slicks.
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:29 PM   #20
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get some gears and put some drag radials on your stock 18 inch wheels and you will run upper-mid 7s not bad for a $1000 I had m/t drag radials small ones in fact (245-40-18) and 3.73 gears, automatic tranny, cai, bama tune and ran best of 7.6x @ 93. 1/8th mile of course
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Old 04-20-2013, 11:34 PM   #21
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With your current mods I would think 8.2-8.3... you really did nothing to help your traction with 20" wheels even if they are wider...control arms are more for wheel hop which I doubt you had with the auto, your bama tune should be fine mine was spot on..but it's always best to data log to get it perfect...good luck with the obsession...oh and if you haven't already take out that anchor called a spare tire...lol it's worth a little
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:49 AM   #22
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I have basically the same mods minus the 20" s mine has the stock cs rims and I picked up 5mph in the eight that's with copious amounts of spinning

---------- Post added at 01:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:44 AM ----------

Edit I thought he had a full catback I have the full 3" catback with deleate mine also has an airaid
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:15 AM   #23
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The best way to launch on the stock converter is off idle. But your trap speed shows there's a problem with the tune.
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Old 04-21-2013, 07:03 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano View Post

I haven't done niether the one inch drop, nor koni, nor panhard bar, nor steeda mounts,...just did bmr lca and brackets....
Why?
Remember my 5000 post about my front toooo low, well my 5.0 is my dd and im not doing those mods till i gwt my dd at the end of the summer, like i stated on the first post, i have those mods
As much as you posted about them I thought you had already done them, nevermind about what I said lol
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Old 04-21-2013, 11:59 AM   #25
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get some gears and put some drag radials on your stock 18 inch wheels and you will run upper-mid 7s not bad for a $1000 I had m/t drag radials small ones in fact (245-40-18) and 3.73 gears, automatic tranny, cai, bama tune and ran best of 7.6x @ 93. 1/8th mile of course
With the bama tune if im going to change the rims, and they have no sensor, do i have to tune for the size of rim im installing?

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------

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With your current mods I would think 8.2-8.3... you really did nothing to help your traction with 20" wheels even if they are wider...control arms are more for wheel hop which I doubt you had with the auto, your bama tune should be fine mine was spot on..but it's always best to data log to get it perfect...good luck with the obsession...oh and if you haven't already take out that anchor called a spare tire...lol it's worth a little
I will next time lol and thanks

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by godsdisciple85 View Post
With your current mods I would think 8.2-8.3... you really did nothing to help your traction with 20" wheels even if they are wider...control arms are more for wheel hop which I doubt you had with the auto, your bama tune should be fine mine was spot on..but it's always best to data log to get it perfect...good luck with the obsession...oh and if you haven't already take out that anchor called a spare tire...lol it's worth a little
I will next time lol and thanks

---------- Post added at 10:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------

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As much as you posted about them I thought you had already done them, nevermind about what I said lol
Yeah i know, i just honestly will mess up the front, if i ever do, ill change it to roush splitter or modify the one i have, but cant do it till im driving less on it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:00 PM   #26
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With the bama tune if im going to change the rims, and they have no sensor, do i have to tune for the size of rim im installing?

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------



I will next time lol and thanks

---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:57 AM ----------



I will next time lol and thanks
That might be why...if your tire size is enough different it will throw your speedo off. You can correct this with a tune. Doesn't mean it is the case always.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:01 PM   #27
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Very true. Is that not one of the questions when getting a new tune?
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by rebeltx View Post
You mentioned LCA brackets, what mounting hole did you use? When you do a burnout does your rear end raise up substantially? If you used the lowest mounting hole (technically for lowered cars according to most) then there is a good chance your shocking the tires loose when you get on it from the line. The new LCA's would compound this issue. Even with the wider tire, your side wall has little give to it as someone mentioned, making it that much easier to break the tires free. If your in the lower hole on the mount I would bring it up one hole. try with TCT off as well (break+hold TCT), launch low and roll into throttle till about 2500-3k then pedal to metal... I honestly don't think there is a tune issue but have Bama talk you thru a data log just to be safe. I think you have great times hidden in your car but with the mods you describe the car will be acting very very different and you just need to feel it out... Start writing down things that you did each run on the back of time slips EX: TCT off, short burn, 1500 launch, spun off line... These are just random numbers and stuff but you could gather that you need to lower launch RPM, do a better burn or lower tire pressure... Go try... Make notes & compare results.

I go a little overboard, I have spread sheets and a note book I use. Recording everything you can think of and making note of mods and comparing results. I even had a camera pointed at my tach at one point for working shift point. I record EVERY run and compare. People say I'm a little crazy about it but the numbers don't lie as my times consistently drop.
I put it on the highest hole, im not dropped.
I honestly was very disappointed with the race tune, like i stated before, i lost that kick that the performance tune i had done before the xpipe. i have to race a buddy of mine to see if its tune or not. or maybe im freaking out, i beat numerous cars that i thought my car wouldnt have a chance, it atleast made me feel better inside. But still i want to improve numbers, its a about a grand in mods that didnt help, im sure ppl understand why im frustrated.
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:23 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by OzzyLiriano View Post
With the bama tune if im going to change the rims, and they have no sensor, do i have to tune for the size of rim im installing?
The TPMS sensors have nothing to do with the tune. In fact an SCT tuner can't even turn them off. With regards to tire size they can be changed in the tuner yourself provided Bama didn't lock you out from being able to do it.
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:00 PM   #30
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The TPMS sensors have nothing to do with the tune. In fact an SCT tuner can't even turn them off. With regards to tire size they can be changed in the tuner yourself provided Bama didn't lock you out from being able to do it.
Okay cool thanks
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:15 PM   #31
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The TPMS sensors have nothing to do with the tune. In fact an SCT tuner can't even turn them off. With regards to tire size they can be changed in the tuner yourself provided Bama didn't lock you out from being able to do it.
Okay cool thanks
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Old 04-21-2013, 01:44 PM   #32
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I agree but the worst that will happen is your speedo will be off I wouldn't worry about it and just go check a tire calculator to find out how many mph it's off so you can keep that in mind
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:39 PM   #33
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I put it on the highest hole, im not dropped.
I honestly was very disappointed with the race tune, like i stated before, i lost that kick that the performance tune i had done before the xpipe. i have to race a buddy of mine to see if its tune or not. or maybe im freaking out, i beat numerous cars that i thought my car wouldnt have a chance, it atleast made me feel better inside. But still i want to improve numbers, its a about a grand in mods that didnt help, im sure ppl understand why im frustrated.
I feel your pain.... I did 3.73 gears, times drop. LCA and brackets, time drops. Springs & tune, times drop. Then I put over 700 into a drive shaft and gain .3 and consistent times become nearly imposable...... Talk about aggravation. I tried new tires and still spin all of first and slam second so hard that it takes all I have to keep the car from getting side ways. Now I'm shifting into 2nd early but still have traction issues
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Old 04-22-2013, 02:13 AM   #34
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I feel your pain.... I did 3.73 gears, times drop. LCA and brackets, time drops. Springs & tune, times drop. Then I put over 700 into a drive shaft and gain .3 and consistent times become nearly imposable...... Talk about aggravation. I tried new tires and still spin all of first and slam second so hard that it takes all I have to keep the car from getting side ways. Now I'm shifting into 2nd early but still have traction issues
.3 on a drag strip is huge, I was .24 off a world record and chased it for 10+ years. Never got any closer.
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Old 04-22-2013, 09:24 AM   #35
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Your telling me... I am in the process of ordering from diamond wheels. Then I'm going to put some M/T's on there. Hopefully that will get the times down below what I was running before.
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