Help diagnose! TCS / Traction Lights - Mustang Evolution

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Old 05-20-2013, 08:09 PM   #1
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Exclamation Help diagnose! TCS / Traction Lights

First off let me say hello and I'm new to the forums!

I bought a 2014 GT 5.0 Manual BASE model about 3 weeks ago. I love this car. I have about 1K miles on it now. Always puts a smile on my face when I drive it. This is my first mustang. I know a good bit about electronics and cars as I work on both for the Air Force.

First let me give you some pre-information. When I get a new car the first two weeks are the clutch break in, motor sound orientation, and shift point acclimation. The third week I learn the clutch-less shifting points for emergencies.

Well this is the third week and I have learned all the clutch-less shift points. I mostly was under 30 MPH because base speed limits are slow. Today however I went off base and did some clutch-less shifting. Everything went well, smooth and no grinding. About 1 full up shift all the way through to six gear the traction control off light and the loss of traction light came on and stayed on. The Advance track off button did nothing when pressed. So I began using the clutch again to see if maybe I activated a sensor by clutch-less shifting. Lights stayed on. So I shut the car off and turned it back on, lights gone. Keep in mind the drive-ability or performance did not change with the lights on. So I pressed on using the clutch. About 20 min later I thought I'd experiment with clutch-less shifting again to see if that what caused it. Sure enough one cycle through the gears later the lights were back on. Same thing just shut off the car and turned it back on. Lights had no effect on the cars performance or drive-ability.

Fast forward to going home, I used the clutch all the way home and the lights never came on. The advance track off button worked only when the lights were off, as normal. I did a small bit of clutch-less shifting under 30 MPH on the way home, no lights as usual.

So it sounds as if 4-6th gear clutch-less cause this problem to occur. There are no check engine lights, and no DTC's. It's like the car is just giving an information type code with those two lights when I clutch-less shift 4-6th.

What do you guys think? I can't think of what would cause this unless there is a sensor that checks RPM vs clutch and gets activated if the clutch is never pressed but the RPM's go up and down with shifts?

Sorry for a lengthy post and any insight would be appreciated before I take it back to the dealer and lose my car for a couple days.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:28 PM   #2
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First, Hey! I'm a USAF vet, good to see another Airman around these parts. I used to terrorize the areas around Hurlburt Field and Eglin in my old SRT4, before PCSing to Aviano and then separating.

Second, I do a fair amount of clutchless shifting in mine. I've not ever seen this issue, though, and I sometimes go clutchless both up and down the gearbox.

Maybe it's something new with the '14s?

Does it do it when you turn off all the assists and go clutchless? You know, brakes and hold the traction control button for 5 seconds? I rarely leave the garage without turning mine off unless it's wet or snowy. Could be a reason that I've never seen this.

Good luck!
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:34 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Rynarok View Post
First, Hey! I'm a USAF vet, good to see another Airman around these parts. I used to terrorize the areas around Hurlburt Field and Eglin in my old SRT4, before PCSing to Aviano and then separating.

Second, I do a fair amount of clutchless shifting in mine. I've not ever seen this issue, though, and I sometimes go clutchless both up and down the gearbox.

Maybe it's something new with the '14s?

Does it do it when you turn off all the assists and go clutchless? You know, brakes and hold the traction control button for 5 seconds? I rarely leave the garage without turning mine off unless it's wet or snowy. Could be a reason that I've never seen this.

Good luck!
I did 5.5 years at Hurlburt before PCS'ing to Illinois. I'll try your suggestion tomorrow or the day after. We got monster storms rolling in so the mustang is in the garage and I'm taking the minivan to work.
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:40 PM   #4
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I fail to see the benefits of clutch-less shifting. Especially in, so called, emergency situations. Just because its possible, doesn't mean it's good for the car. I'm sure there's sensors in place to throw some sort of light, these cars have more sensors and artificial intelligence than most science fiction writers of the past could only dream about. The MT-82 transmission is well known for being one of the weak points in our chassis, why put it through anymore unnecessary torture? Just make sure when you take it to the dealer to complain and have them diagnose the problem, you fully disclose that your trying shift frequently without the clutch. I'd almost pay to see and hear their reaction. I think I'll go to dealer and inquire why my check engine and oil light is on, it couldn't be due to me only putting 4 quarts into her to save money. I mean it's good oil and I don't drive her that hard. Wtf?
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Old 05-20-2013, 08:46 PM   #5
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I fail to see the benefits of clutch-less shifting. Especially in, so called, emergency situations. Just because its possible, doesn't mean it's good for the car. I'm sure there's sensors in place to throw some sort of light, these cars have more sensors and artificial intelligence than most science fiction writers of the past could only dream about. The MT-82 transmission is well known for being one of the weak points in our chassis, why put it through anymore unnecessary torture? Just make sure when you take it to the dealer to complain and have them diagnose the problem, you fully disclose that your trying shift frequently without the clutch. I'd almost pay to see and hear their reaction. I think I'll go to dealer and inquire why my check engine and oil light is on, it couldn't be due to me only putting 4 quarts into her to save money. I mean it's good oil and I don't drive her that hard. Wtf?
Only emergency where it will pay off is if the clutch goes out in some way. You are right though they will be like dafaq?

Other than tractor trailer drivers most people don't even know you can shift without the clutch. And done right is actually less harsh than using the clutch constantly.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by DWC_SmOziLLa View Post
I fail to see the benefits of clutch-less shifting.
I do it to feel spiffy it's a cool feeling when you know that you know the revs and transmission speed well enough to reliably pull it off.

I don't think there is much in the way of benefits to it other than saving some clutchplate wear and tear. You do risk wearing down your syncros if you are fail at it.

He's right, though. Mostly you'll find semi-trailer drivers doing this as it is a common technique to float those transmissions. It skips the whole doubleclutching that is otherwise required. Source: I've got a few uncles who are truckers. I learned from them and straight murdering my first car's transmission.
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:26 PM   #7
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Clutchless shifting huh? Hmm.. (Gordito is learning to drive a manual transmission still...)
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Old 05-20-2013, 09:30 PM   #8
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Hell of a car to learn in, lol! Best method is to just drive the damn thing. Work your way up to big city traffic, go racing (legally? *ahem*) drive through the hills and learn to start and stop on an incline. Turn the radio off and just listen to the engine and transmission. They're a better teacher than anyone.

Back to OP though, I'm fairly sure shutting off the nannies will result in it ignoring his shifting habits. I haven't turned up anything with my google search that indicates otherwise.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:26 AM   #9
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Welcome Airman.
Shifting without the clutch is not a good idea when you have a ching Chang transmission in the car. Loosening the clutch with out warning is like being struck by lighting, it happens, but it is very rare.
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Old 05-21-2013, 11:36 AM   #10
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You're more likely to create an emergency than avoid one by doing clutchless shifting on a non-sequential gearbox. This also isn't an unsychronized truck trans.

It's really hard on shift dogs, shifter, forks and gears and sends heavy shock loads through the driveline if mishandled even slightly. Transmissions are a lot more expensive than clutches.

Stop and drive the car the way it is intended to be driven.
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