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Old 07-28-2013, 11:51 PM   #1
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Bbk 90mm throttle body

I already have a BbK Cold air and I was thinking about adding the 90mm throttle body....is it worth the 549.99 ...and how much of an increase in hp should i see with the two combined???
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:53 PM   #2
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90mm? Thats maf size. I thought highest they made was 78mm.

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------

As for hp gain a tb and cai should get you 20hp tuned
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Old 07-28-2013, 11:58 PM   #3
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90mm? Thats maf size. I thought highest they made was 78mm.

---------- Post added at 12:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 AM ----------

As for hp gain a tb and cai should get you 20hp tuned
They make a 85mm and a 90mm the factory is 80mm....seems like a lot of money for a couple more ponies...
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:00 AM   #4
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Thats a pretty big tb. Doesnt seem necessary unless you're sucking in massive amounts of air flow
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Old 07-29-2013, 12:11 AM   #5
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90mm TB is pretty big for NA, this would be a supporting mod
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:38 AM   #6
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I've heard that neither the 85 nor 90mm TBs are worth the cost for the relatively small increase in HP, (as a standalone mod).
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:01 AM   #7
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Unless you have FI and are trying to squeeze every last horse power out of your car then there is no reason to buy a new TB
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Old 07-29-2013, 08:19 AM   #8
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Dang bro a 90mm? Unless you are supercharged and have a bunch of internal upgrades there is no point of having that on there. You wont feel much difference besides throttle response without all the other induced air toys. A CAI with a performance filter and a 75mm TB will give you the kick you need. Thats just my opinion though bro.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by PonyBoy415 View Post
I already have a BbK Cold air and I was thinking about adding the 90mm throttle body....is it worth the 549.99 ...and how much of an increase in hp should i see with the two combined???
I've heard both ways on this. Technically anything that opens up air flow to the engine will help create more horsepower. I'm not sure about it being "worth it" but that is a opinion made by someone who either owns or doesn't own it. If I wanted one, I'd buy it just for that reason only. I can guarantee you that throttle response would be much better than the stock throttle body which is already 80mm by the way. However, the throttle body is nowhere near the best cost-for-performance gain out there considering your current mods. If you had a supercharger I could see you wanting to upgrade the stock throttle body, because a 80mm throttle body would be a restriction compared to a 90mm. While NA, your engine can only suck in so much air, regardless of how open the intake is.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:18 AM   #10
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So what should my next mod be.....I have a cai and axle backs already...I was thinking tb and coil kit...your opinions are greatly appreciated !!
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:41 AM   #11
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I've heard both ways on this. Technically anything that opens up air flow to the engine will help create more horsepower....While NA, your engine can only suck in so much air, regardless of how open the intake is.
Actually "technically" the first statement is untrue but the last statement is.

Airflow dynamics in an engine are very complex. It's not the drain in your shower here. In no way is it ever as simple as "anything that opens up flow makes HP." it's the same kind of limited, linear thinking that cliches, "Oh, an engine is just a big air pump..." Drives me nuts.

Making HP is a function of designing a system that works together. the engine the stock TB is attached to, like ZL says, can only ingest so much air, based on displacement, cam timing, manifold and plenum volume, exhaust flow characteristics, head design, valve type and cut, etc. etc. etc.

Mess with one piece of this puzzle, (particularly on a modern engine) and you can cause problems, especially when you're talking changing a critical hard part like the TB w/o consideration for the other parts of the system. Why electronic tuning works on a modern engine is it allows for tuning the entire engine management package to optimize the hard parts there by diminishing the safety and regulatory limits imposed on stock programming.

You didn't gain much from your CAI mod either, unless you tuned for it and the TB is another expensive journey in wasted money, unless you build the rest of the engine and the tuning around it.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:47 AM   #12
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Actually "technically" the first statement is untrue but the last statement is.

Airflow dynamics in an engine are very complex. It's not the drain in your shower here. In no way is it ever as simple as "anything that opens up flow makes HP." it's the same kind of limited, linear thinking that cliches, "Oh, an engine is just a big air pump..." Drives me nuts.

Making HP is a function of designing a system that works together. the engine the stock TB is attached to, like ZL says, can only ingest so much air, based on displacement, cam timing, manifold and plenum volume, exhaust flow characteristics, head design, valve type and cut, etc. etc. etc.

Mess with one piece of this puzzle, (particularly on a modern engine) and you can cause problems, especially when you're talking changing a critical hard part like the TB w/o consideration for the other parts of the system. Why electronic tuning works on a modern engine is it allows for tuning the entire engine management package to optimize the hard parts there by diminishing the safety and regulatory limits imposed on stock programming.

You didn't gain much from your CAI mod either, unless you tuned for it and the TB is another expensive journey in wasted money, unless you build the rest of the engine and the tuning around it.
I do plan to get a tuner also for these parts...I just want as much as I can get without having to buy a supercharger....I don't race the car and I don't drive it that much but I would like to have 500hp out the wheels without the aid of a supercharger or turbo setup....
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:02 AM   #13
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Are you seriously hearing what you're saying? 500 wheel hp, NA?

You will need a FULLY BUILT top to bottom NA engine to get that. It's definitely possible but, you will pay out the *** for this.

Then you say you don't race the car but will essentially be turning the engine into a fully race-prepared setup you won't use.

I get the feeling you're kind of new at this. Trust me on this one, from experience: If you want a fun, low-stress, big power mod that can easily meet your goals with tons of room to grow, a centrifugal supercharger is for you. It'll be minimally 1/2 the price of building your dream NA engine, you can stick it on in a weekend and the tune that comes with it will blow 500 horse wide open and never look back.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:10 AM   #14
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Are you seriously hearing what you're saying? 500 wheel hp, NA?

You will need a FULLY BUILT top to bottom NA engine to get that. It's definitely possible but, you will pay out the *** for this.

Then you say you don't race the car but will essentially be turning the engine into a fully race-prepared setup you won't use.

I get the feeling you're kind of new at this. Trust me on this one, from experience: If you want a fun, low-stress, big power mod that can easily meet your goals with tons of room to grow, a centrifugal supercharger is for you. It'll be minimally 1/2 the price of building your dream NA engine, you can stick it on in a weekend and the tune that comes with it will blow 500 horse wide open and never look back.
Thanks for the advice I appreciate it
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:22 AM   #15
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No problem. Apologies if I sound short but, if I can save one guy from going through all the expensive experimenting I've gone through in 30+ years of doing this, it's time well spent.

The centri is easier on the driveline, matches the coyote's power production curve nicely and a solid kit like a Paxton can support ~1000 hp so 5-600 is low boost, low heat, low stress easy-peasy. It feels really cool, trust me. Anyone with a modest tool set and a bit of wisdom of the hands can install this at home.
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Old 07-29-2013, 01:16 PM   #16
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My buddy runs a vortech super charger on his 2011 5.0. The car was built for the drag strip. It puts down 700hp at the rears! Runs 9.82's all day long. He's running the STOCK (80mm) throttle body and intake manifold FOR A REASON!
Save your $$ for a good set of long tube headers with a matching mid pipe. You can get a nice set of stainless power LT's and matching mid pipe for about 850$ shipped! With a decent tune your looking at 20-30 rwhp with LT's over stock.
The new larger TB has to be tweaked in the tune as well. From what I understand its kind of a PITA!?
Just my 2 cents
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Old 07-29-2013, 02:44 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post

Actually "technically" the first statement is untrue but the last statement is.

Airflow dynamics in an engine are very complex. It's not the drain in your shower here. In no way is it ever as simple as "anything that opens up flow makes HP." it's the same kind of limited, linear thinking that cliches, "Oh, an engine is just a big air pump..." Drives me nuts.

Making HP is a function of designing a system that works together. the engine the stock TB is attached to, like ZL says, can only ingest so much air, based on displacement, cam timing, manifold and plenum volume, exhaust flow characteristics, head design, valve type and cut, etc. etc. etc.

Mess with one piece of this puzzle, (particularly on a modern engine) and you can cause problems, especially when you're talking changing a critical hard part like the TB w/o consideration for the other parts of the system. Why electronic tuning works on a modern engine is it allows for tuning the entire engine management package to optimize the hard parts there by diminishing the safety and regulatory limits imposed on stock programming.

You didn't gain much from your CAI mod either, unless you tuned for it and the TB is another expensive journey in wasted money, unless you build the rest of the engine and the tuning around it.
This post is full of great information, but don't confuse my generalization of airflow restriction with linear thinking. If more airflow proved to have value in terms of performance gain then it would not be sought after. Engines are not pumps at all, but they do create vacuum. Unfortunately no vacuum is infinite other than space, so an engine faces restrictions due to all the variables mentioned above. Alot of the drive-by-wire throttle bodies are pre-calibrated and although there may be no significant horsepower gain, you have still created a larger space for intake air to pass through. If the air has no bend/restriction to the combustion chambers then there is a greater chance for more air to be present. More air+more fuel=more power. That was my only point. Now if you ask me if I would spend $600 on a throttle body? No way! Not even if I had a supercharger.
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:46 PM   #18
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So with everything being said I'm going to save all my pennies for a Roush Stage 1 Supercharger along with their full suspension upgrade...I won't waste any more money on mods till after....
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Old 07-29-2013, 06:52 PM   #19
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Good choice. I bought the 85mm on an impulse buy, it was a late night or too many drinks..or both.. I'd rather have put that money towards some drag wheels, but live & learn.
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:54 PM   #20
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If I can give one more piece of advice....spend some of your money up front now getting the suspension in order out back to take the power you're going to put down. That means at least an upper control arm, lowers, maybe relocation brackets, if you plan on lowering. That stuff's relatively cheap, the benefit is immediate and it will help you later, too.

Put down what you have before trying for more power. You'll be surprised what the thing can do with no added power.
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:53 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ZLwhat View Post
I've heard both ways on this. Technically anything that opens up air flow to the engine will help create more horsepower. I'm not sure about it being "worth it" but that is a opinion made by someone who either owns or doesn't own it. If I wanted one, I'd buy it just for that reason only. I can guarantee you that throttle response would be much better than the stock throttle body which is already 80mm by the way. However, the throttle body is nowhere near the best cost-for-performance gain out there considering your current mods. If you had a supercharger I could see you wanting to upgrade the stock throttle body, because a 80mm throttle body would be a restriction compared to a 90mm. While NA, your engine can only suck in so much air, regardless of how open the intake is.
The larger throttle body will decrease throttle response in this setup
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Old 07-30-2013, 04:11 PM   #22
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The larger throttle body will decrease throttle response in this setup
I have the 85mm tb and its alot more responsive than the 80mm and you can feel the difference on acceleration with it, not alot but its alot better then the factory 80mm.
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Old 07-31-2013, 05:30 AM   #23
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Thread cleaned up, lets stop acting like kids
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Old 08-01-2013, 01:46 AM   #24
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A good tuner can make the most of either size aftermarket TB. I'm running a Ford Racing 90mm on my Boss 302 intake, with a JLT CF CAI. I did not lose response, and gained a consistent 40 rwhp throughout the entire range of 4000-7800 rpm. A future power adder would definitely love it too...
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:19 AM   #25
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A good tuner can make the most of either size aftermarket TB. I'm running a Ford Racing 90mm on my Boss 302 intake, with a JLT CF CAI. I did not lose response, and gained a consistent 40 rwhp throughout the entire range of 4000-7800 rpm. A future power adder would definitely love it too...
This is all true and mirrors what I said earlier. It's about a system and making the parts work together.

This isn't what the OP was suggesting, though. He was just going to pop it on behind his cold air. This isn't going to do anything to justify the expense.
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Old 08-01-2013, 10:51 AM   #26
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You have to retune with any TB upgrade, regardless of what's advertised.
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Old 03-28-2014, 05:05 PM   #27
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I did replace my 80 mm TB with the 90 mm from BBK

This came after Air aid, Borla Exhaust (attack) and Hypertech tuning set for premium fuel.

I was encouraged when I saw that the Air aid fits 'taper' on the filter side of the TB (air aid reducer adaptor had to be cut shorter & taper).great for air flow patterns.

took 2-3 hours on the road for the setup to figure out how to use the new part. Then, I had 2 runs of 200 miles at 26 mi/gal each. Never could do that before at the same speed. This is 5% or more on gaz mileage. And my low end torque feels stronger.

sold !!

I look forward to some dyno testing.
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