New Stang mod confusion - Mustang Evolution

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Old 08-12-2013, 05:20 AM   #1
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New Stang mod confusion

Hey guys, I apologize if this type of post has been answered 1000 times but I couldn't find answers that suited my specific questions.

I ordered a '14 GT in April and will take delivery on it in september when I get back from deployment. It's a GT Premium, Track Pack, Recarros. I have budgeted myself $2500-3000 for mods I want to order before I even put a mile on the Stang. It will be a daily driver that won't see any track in the foreseeable future. That being said, I still want to smash most things on the road and take it on road trips through twisty mountain roads.

Right now I have in my "cart" Borla Type S cat back, Ford Racing shocks, struts, springs (1" drop), GT 500 strut mounts, camber bolts, LCA. I've debated getting the Ford Racing handling kit but my question is, is that overkill for what I'll be using the car for?

Also, I want a tuner bad but I'm afraid of messing something up and it not being covered by warranty. I just don't know enough about tuners or modding a sports car as this is my first one. I've always owned trucks. I'm a jet mechanic so I can do most of the work myself, minus a few applications I won't have tools for. Up to $3000 for mods is my budget. Am I heading in the right direction? I'm open to criticism and any input would help me. Thank you guys in advance.
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Old 08-12-2013, 07:42 AM   #2
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As a word of advice, unless your cool with your dealership techs and maintenance managers....hate to break it to ya but NO GOOD will come from modding it within warranty time frame. I have had nothing but problems. It's best to go to a modification friendly dealership.

Also, who cares about the approval of what others think of what mods you wanna do first. Majority of people on these forums will most likely agree with your mods. Don't take this second paragraph as me putting you down, but GO WITH YOUR GUT ON MODS. If you like it and its a show piece, like axleback mufflers or a mid pipe, different hood or anything really;
majority of people on this forum have already done those same mods you have described.

I SAY GO FOR IT IT'S YOUR CAR!

As far as the shock setup goes, FRHP is just a re-badged eibach system that's all. And you most likely will not need camber bolts, frankly I think they are useless for "ALMOST ALL" vehicle suspensions. You might wanna look into a different camber plates as well, considering GT500 camber plates are a hunk of junk. Any other camber plate will do
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:07 AM   #3
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Thanks for your response drax. I totally agree and will do what I think is best for my car. I guess I was looking for more "don't do that, before this, because..." For instance, some people install 90mm tbs on a NA motor with stock headers, etc. A total waste of money. If I were making a mistake in that reguard, I'd like feedback. Just want to clean up the rear end a little and be able to put the existing power to the ground more efficiently. You are correct though, voiding the warranty is not a road I want to travel with limited funds. Cheers though!
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:49 AM   #4
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The tuner brings all of your other mods together and let's you get the most out of then. Ex. CAI, full exhaust, etc...

The down side is that if anything happens to your engine or trans or anything along those lines the dealership COULD deny the warranty work and blaim it on the tune that you installed. And yes they can tell that you have tuned it even if you return it to the stock tune.

Hope that helped. Most people including me are not worried about the loss of warranty and went with a Bama performance tune from AM. They have never been known to have a tune that caused a problem, they are not the most powerful tunes but they are the most reliable.
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Old 08-12-2013, 10:53 AM   #5
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two things are at issue with what you're saying:

1. You want to modify before you turn a mile. This is a mistake. Try the car out for a few thousand, let everything loosen up and start working the way it's supposed to, illuminate any issues the car might have and have them corrected either through judicious modification or warranty service.

2. Basically, be prepared to face a big hassle regarding warranty service if you change anything from factory, full stop. People will tell you a lot of airy bull**** about how the dealer/Ford has to "prove" this and that, and they can't deny your warranty but in practical terms they can likely outlast your frustration tolerance and finances if they wish to make an issue out of serving your warranty. It might not go down that way but, it also is not even close to being outside the realm of possibility. If warranty is a concern, don't mod or at least only do quickly and easily removable stuff like shifter brackets, LCAs etc.

You'll be surprised what the car is capable of as it is or with a judicious selection of a few cheap mods. See my sig.
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Old 08-12-2013, 11:01 AM   #6
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I have to agree with 5LHO and do the mods you want, since it is your car. One more piece of advice, once you start modding it is very hard to stop. I've probably dropped 7K into my car since I got it on april 1st, its like a drug it is addictive. I first said that I was only gonna do a full exhaust and an intake manifold, but once I did I had to do more, then more and I'm hooked. I think it's better than drugs cause I get a rush every time I add a new part to my IMPORT EATER.
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Old 08-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by BigBry0311 View Post
I have to agree with 5LHO and do the mods you want, since it is your car. One more piece of advice, once you start modding it is very hard to stop. I've probably dropped 7K into my car since I got it on april 1st, its like a drug it is addictive. I first said that I was only gonna do a full exhaust and an intake manifold, but once I did I had to do more, then more and I'm hooked. I think it's better than drugs cause I get a rush every time I add a new part to my IMPORT EATER.
I love your car BTW
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Old 08-12-2013, 04:11 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Crewchief15 View Post
Hey guys, I apologize if this type of post has been answered 1000 times but I couldn't find answers that suited my specific questions.

I ordered a '14 GT in April and will take delivery on it in september when I get back from deployment. It's a GT Premium, Track Pack, Recarros. I have budgeted myself $2500-3000 for mods I want to order before I even put a mile on the Stang. It will be a daily driver that won't see any track in the foreseeable future. That being said, I still want to smash most things on the road and take it on road trips through twisty mountain roads.

Right now I have in my "cart" Borla Type S cat back, Ford Racing shocks, struts, springs (1" drop), GT 500 strut mounts, camber bolts, LCA. I've debated getting the Ford Racing handling kit but my question is, is that overkill for what I'll be using the car for?

Also, I want a tuner bad but I'm afraid of messing something up and it not being covered by warranty. I just don't know enough about tuners or modding a sports car as this is my first one. I've always owned trucks. I'm a jet mechanic so I can do most of the work myself, minus a few applications I won't have tools for. Up to $3000 for mods is my budget. Am I heading in the right direction? I'm open to criticism and any input would help me. Thank you guys in advance.
I have the Ford Racing Handling Pack. That gives you the Front Tower Strut also. You don't need the Strut Mounts, Camber Plates or Lower Control Arms.

5LHO suggests that you drive it for awhile BEFORE you do any mods. +100. Even wait for your first oil change. I had software update before I started modding. First oil change at 2500 miles. I was over at the dealership and went back to the parts department. I stopped and asked the mechanic who said, you done a little work under here. I smiled and said thanks.

Get a list of some of the mods and have a chat with the Service Manager. Take a list and ask him what's ok and not. This will VARY from dealerships. Mine just shrugged his shoulders and said it's your car.

Go slow so you will be able to evaluate what you have done. Do your suspension first, then move on to the exhaust. IF YOUR DOING THE SUSPENSION, DO THAT ALL AT ONCE. LOT OF WORK, SINCE YOUR ALREADY THERE, DO THAT PART TOTALLY.

Check with your smog requirements in your state of residence. Then look for a good CAI and Tuner. Don't worry about your gas mileage yet. Yours will be different simply because elevation, brand and octane used, temperature and HEAVY FOOT!

BigBry0311 says he is over 7k. That is very easy to do.

Hope this helps. As you will learn, you can ask one question and get a variety of answers and opinion.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:57 PM   #9
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CrewChief, I ordered the same, with the exception of Recaros. If I had it to do over again, I'd first choose to get rid of the stock shifter. It's junk. I'll be swapping my OEM for an MGW soon. If you can't consistently hit the gears, horsepower and handling mods are useless. Just my opinion.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:01 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
two things are at issue with what you're saying:

1. You want to modify before you turn a mile. This is a mistake. Try the car out for a few thousand, let everything loosen up and start working the way it's supposed to, illuminate any issues the car might have and have them corrected either through judicious modification or warranty service.

2. Basically, be prepared to face a big hassle regarding warranty service if you change anything from factory, full stop. People will tell you a lot of airy bull**** about how the dealer/Ford has to "prove" this and that, and they can't deny your warranty but in practical terms they can likely outlast your frustration tolerance and finances if they wish to make an issue out of serving your warranty. It might not go down that way but, it also is not even close to being outside the realm of possibility. If warranty is a concern, don't mod or at least only do quickly and easily removable stuff like shifter brackets, LCAs etc.

You'll be surprised what the car is capable of as it is or with a judicious selection of a few cheap mods. See my sig.
What facts do you have to back up opinion #2 or is it just your opinion?
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:35 PM   #11
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What facts do you have to back up opinion #2 or is it just your opinion?
It ain't opinion. I've been there, done that. I had two small warranty issues and they were served quickly and without a lot of fuss.

But when my MT 82 decided to out of nowhere, no racing, no mods, start whining like a supercharger at 3500 miles, it took me a month of negotiating and convincing to get them to accept there was a problem and finally open the box. When they did, they found massive devastation precipitated by the cause I'd told was the precipitating failure a month before.

Now, I teach auto shop and I'm an experienced negotiator. I have been heavily involved with negotiating 3 collective agreements in the last ten years for my union. I am not going to be intimidated or tricked into anything and it took every trick I knew to get Ford to hold up their end.

Now, since, the trans has been alright, just a few new rattles that I'm deeming not worth chasing down. Could it go differently elsewhere? Sure but, it is most definitely not out of the realm of possibility it won't.
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Old 08-13-2013, 12:56 AM   #12
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I have an 11gt/cs that has quite a few mods never had a problem with mine but my car is not a dd I've had a 93 race tune from bama since 2k it now has 9 but as far the very first mod I would do is a m.g.w. shifter with out a doubt then from there it's up to you I did the shifter first because I hate missing gears and the stock shifter is crap
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Old 08-13-2013, 01:50 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Crewchief15 View Post
Hey guys, I apologize if this type of post has been answered 1000 times but I couldn't find answers that suited my specific questions.

I ordered a '14 GT in April and will take delivery on it in september when I get back from deployment. It's a GT Premium, Track Pack, Recarros. I have budgeted myself $2500-3000 for mods I want to order before I even put a mile on the Stang. It will be a daily driver that won't see any track in the foreseeable future. That being said, I still want to smash most things on the road and take it on road trips through twisty mountain roads.

Right now I have in my "cart" Borla Type S cat back, Ford Racing shocks, struts, springs (1" drop), GT 500 strut mounts, camber bolts, LCA. I've debated getting the Ford Racing handling kit but my question is, is that overkill for what I'll be using the car for?

Also, I want a tuner bad but I'm afraid of messing something up and it not being covered by warranty. I just don't know enough about tuners or modding a sports car as this is my first one. I've always owned trucks. I'm a jet mechanic so I can do most of the work myself, minus a few applications I won't have tools for. Up to $3000 for mods is my budget. Am I heading in the right direction? I'm open to criticism and any input would help me. Thank you guys in advance.
First of all, thank for your service sir.

I just picked up a 2014 Track Pack about a month ago. First of all, the car is already fast as $h1t, from day 1. Faster than most things you will come across on the highway. Speed won't be your main concern for now, no tuner needed. The 3.73 gears and Coyote Power will keep you entertained and having a good ole time for at least a little while. You will instantly fall in love with it. This is my 3rd Mustang and I have learned quite a few things about them and about modding them so far.

First thing, put at least a good 1k miles on it before you start modding, this will give you a little time to become intimate with the car and find out what things about it that you like, love, dislike, and absolutely hate. Change the things you hate first. It won't take long for you to figure out $2-$3k for mods won't get you very far. Like the other guy said, modding is extremely addictive. Always something that you will want that will quickly turn into a need (lol). Look for used parts. GT owners seem to have short term and long term modification plans, swapping and selling parts often.

FRPP are good quality but way over priced. You want to find out who makes those parts for them and buy that stuff. Save the FRPP money for mechanical upgrades that keep your warranty in tact.

As far as the track package goes, there are some things that suck about it. First, the suspension is no good. Sucks for a DD. Very high up and bouncy, fragile to top it off. I already broke mine and haven't done any auto x or track runs, just the occasional straight line fun.

The people in forum are not joking about service problems or warranty issues. Look for my next post on the Track Pack Suspension issue, there are defects on these cars, Ford Service Bulletins on defective parts that need to be fixed before you take delivery or you will have to fight with them later to have it fixed. Ford Service is absolutely the worst. They won't fix their own broken, defective stuff on brand new cars before or after they sell it to you. I was looking to get the gf a new Ford for her but now we are looking into other cars. This is a constant complaint I see over and over. Ford Dealers do not want to honor their manufacturer warranty. You would never guess that such a big company would have so many problems taking care of their own loyal customers who come back again and again to buy Mustangs and encourage others to buy American made Fords, but I guess they choose nickel and dime arguments to save a buck rather than keep their loyal customers. After having many issues with my 2011 3.7 and now problems with my 3 week old 2014 GT, this is probably the last modern Mustang or Ford anything that I will ever buy. I will have to keep this one forever and self warranty the car (Fix it myself lol).

Back on topic. Suspension is a priority in these cars. They don't look right or handle properly until they get at least a 1" drop. I had the Eibach Pro kit in my 11 Mustang, same or similar to the FRPP kit. Noticeable improvement in appearance and handling. Great for a DD like you have in your plans, doesn't make the ride harsh. The only issue I had was that after only a few thousand miles, I started to get strut noise from the front end. I always worried about it getting worse, and that was with Steeda heavy duty usm's.

On a side note, the Track Package Suspension is NOT the same as the regular GT. There was a break down of parts on another forum. It appears to be a combination of parts from other Mustangs. Make sure you contact whoever you are purchasing parts from and confirm that you are ordering the correct parts.

I notice a lot of GT owners recommend Koni Yellow Shocks/Struts. I haven't looked into them yet but you may want to before you purchase FRPP kit.

The stick shifter is miserable, change it asap.

The base stereo sucks, Brembo wheels are a$$ ugly, rest of the car could use some appearance mods. Looks pretty plain stock. Up to you how you feel about those things.

Exhaust is too mild, axle backs needed.

Use at least 89 or 91octane from a premium gas station (Shell, Chevron).

MPG in the city is terrible w/ 3.73 gears, let know what you get.

That's my piece. I hope you got something helpful out of it.
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Old 08-13-2013, 02:50 AM   #14
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Red Stallion, thank you for taking the time and thought to reply. I really appreciate it and I can tell I'm going to love the Mustang community. I think with all this time on my hands waiting to get back and take delivery, I've got in over my head researching parts lol. Clearly I won't have the fastest Mustang in the street so I've decided to take everyone's advice and take it slow. Probably axle back and shifter then chill on it. I know that wheel gap is going to bother the s*** out of me though lol. I've always wanted to buy/order a Mustang with every option I want. I'm finally in a spot financially where I can do that and I'm just over excited I guess.

Everyone,
Thank you all for your responses. I really didn't expect people to respond to "noob" posts. Chancing Ford not honoring my warranty for a few more horse and tighter turns I've decided isn't worth it. I need to learn how to drive it properly first I suppose. Again, thank you for your time. I'll be stalking these forums regularly so you'll see me around. ; ) Also, anyone in the Charleston, SC area?
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Old 08-13-2013, 03:04 AM   #15
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No problem. There are some lowering springs that offer a mild drop that makes big difference in appearance and handling without making the ride rough. Eibach Pro's, for example, don't require shock's, struts, mounts. Would be a good start, but I don't know which one of these will work

---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 AM ----------

For the track pack.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:38 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
It ain't opinion. I've been there, done that. I had two small warranty issues and they were served quickly and without a lot of fuss.

But when my MT 82 decided to out of nowhere, no racing, no mods, start whining like a supercharger at 3500 miles, it took me a month of negotiating and convincing to get them to accept there was a problem and finally open the box. When they did, they found massive devastation precipitated by the cause I'd told was the precipitating failure a month before.

Now, I teach auto shop and I'm an experienced negotiator. I have been heavily involved with negotiating 3 collective agreements in the last ten years for my union. I am not going to be intimidated or tricked into anything and it took every trick I knew to get Ford to hold up their end.

Now, since, the trans has been alright, just a few new rattles that I'm deeming not worth chasing down. Could it go differently elsewhere? Sure but, it is most definitely not out of the realm of possibility it won't.

So if there were no mods the issue was your Dealers willingness to fix a defect rather that laying it on a modification?

Its my opinion that a modification will only cause you a warranty problem, if the mod is some way was related to the cause of the failure. Also, again just my opinion but the dealer you are working with is a huge part of it. I have bought several new cars from the same dealer and they treat me right.
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Old 08-13-2013, 06:34 AM   #17
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CrewChief, I ordered the same, with the exception of Recaros. If I had it to do over again, I'd first choose to get rid of the stock shifter. It's junk. I'll be swapping my OEM for an MGW soon. If you can't consistently hit the gears, horsepower and handling mods are useless. Just my opinion.

From one aviation serviceman to another, Thank You for your military service!
Great advice! Thank you as well for your service.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:25 AM   #18
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So if there were no mods the issue was your Dealers willingness to fix a defect rather that laying it on a modification?

Its my opinion that a modification will only cause you a warranty problem, if the mod is some way was related to the cause of the failure. Also, again just my opinion but the dealer you are working with is a huge part of it. I have bought several new cars from the same dealer and they treat me right.
Don't disagree on the dealer playing a big part in this. The default position was "no" but, eventually, through working my way through channels, I got a higher up to say "yes" and help me. At first, they did try every tactic to get me to go away. Delay, draw incorrect conclusions, blame the victim, everything. For example, they tried to say that the aftermarket shift knob was an "aftermarket shifter" and that was why my trans sounded like a straight-cut Hewland. I was firm, not rude and kept working up the channels until I convinced a higher up to advocate for/with me.

Your opinion is predicated upon the conception that they will actually do what they are supposed to do and not do what is in their short-term best interest. Unwise to make that assumption.

The internal bureaucracy at Ford is brutal. it takes forever to get anything done or any decisions made. This is by far the most effective tactic the company has in avoiding paying out expensive warranty claims. They just drag their feet until the customer becomes frustrated or goes broke fighting.
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Old 08-13-2013, 05:54 PM   #19
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I agree about the FRHP. I was going to buy the same package as my first mod along with wheels and tires but did extensive research and found I could get same quality or better parts for just $300 more. I would also agree about the MGW shifter. I can't stress enough how bad the shifters on these cars are. I did that mod first before ANYTHING ELSE. It's a big game changer. It doesn't have to be a MGW, but I cant begin to tell you how much better anything else is to the factory one. I am also modding my car to do the same as you. A balanced car. Cutting corners but also a good drag racer. So I'm just as interested in this thread as you are.
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Old 08-17-2013, 03:34 AM   #20
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Hey guys, I apologize if this type of post has been answered 1000 times but I couldn't find answers that suited my specific questions.

I ordered a '14 GT in April and will take delivery on it in september when I get back from deployment. It's a GT Premium, Track Pack, Recarros. I have budgeted myself $2500-3000 for mods I want to order before I even put a mile on the Stang. It will be a daily driver that won't see any track in the foreseeable future. That being said, I still want to smash most things on the road and take it on road trips through twisty mountain roads.

Right now I have in my "cart" Borla Type S cat back, Ford Racing shocks, struts, springs (1" drop), GT 500 strut mounts, camber bolts, LCA. I've debated getting the Ford Racing handling kit but my question is, is that overkill for what I'll be using the car for?

Also, I want a tuner bad but I'm afraid of messing something up and it not being covered by warranty. I just don't know enough about tuners or modding a sports car as this is my first one. I've always owned trucks. I'm a jet mechanic so I can do most of the work myself, minus a few applications I won't have tools for. Up to $3000 for mods is my budget. Am I heading in the right direction? I'm open to criticism and any input would help me. Thank you guys in advance.
Saw this thread, and thought I'd offer my $.02

Before you spend anything on mods, drive your car and get to know it. It's strengths and weaknesses will reveal themselves in time, and you'll develop a sense on where your mod money should go. For example, don't assume you'll hate the MT82, or that you immediately need to replace your suspension. Depending on your driving style and tastes, you may be fine with both (and that's okay).

Good luck in any event.
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Old 08-17-2013, 07:11 AM   #21
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Saw this thread, and thought I'd offer my $.02

Before you spend anything on mods, drive your car and get to know it. It's strengths and weaknesses will reveal themselves in time, and you'll develop a sense on where your mod money should go. For example, don't assume you'll hate the MT82, or that you immediately need to replace your suspension. Depending on your driving style and tastes, you may be fine with both (and that's okay).

Good luck in any event.
Yeah, you are definitely right. I think I'm just over excited about getting the vehicle. All this time waiting for delivery and can do nothing and research and look at others' builds. I'm going to error on the side of caution. Patience or not, that exhaust is getting swapped out ASAP. Thanks though!
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:00 AM   #22
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There are are really only a few things that are "musts" in my book with this car, especially when it's optioned with factory performance stuff like yours:

A shifter bracket of some type for the manual cars

A set of mufflers that make the car sound right to you.

Some method of containing the wheelhop on the MT cars.

All these are easy to do, have limited risk, are low buck and are easily reversible, if desired.
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2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:05 AM   #23
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There are are really only a few things that are "musts" in my book with this car, especially when it's optioned with factory performance stuff like yours:

A shifter bracket of some type for the manual cars

A set of mufflers that make the car sound right to you.

Some method of containing the wheelhop on the MT cars.

All these are easy to do, have limited risk, are low buck and are easily reversible, if desired.
I'm having trouble deciding between the Borla Type S catback or axle back. Do you know if there is a significant difference in sound? I like that low, deep growl. I have no problem paying the difference in price but if I don't have to, there's I'd rather not.
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Old 08-17-2013, 10:31 AM   #24
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I dunno. I'd start with the mufflers and work from there; I tend to favour an old, somewhat out of fashion engineering principle of using minimum technology to achieve desired outcomes.

This car is difficult to tune for sound. It's not a pushrod, wedge head, inline valve engine but people still want it to sound like one, at least a bit.

There's no real power in whatever choice you make so it's all about the auditory experience.
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2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
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Old 08-18-2013, 09:32 AM   #25
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FWIW, I really like the FRHP; mine, dealer-installed after 2 oil changes (with 8qts!) and 6000 miles. Shocks/dampers are adjustable and I do plan to take it to the track this year. Also like the FRPP Touring axle-backs for not-too loud awesome Borla sound (stainless cans should continue to look good for years). Easy self-install using ramps. Anyone wants the take-offs, PM me. CHEAP
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Old 08-18-2013, 10:13 AM   #26
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I think the GT500 standard cans are made of stainless, too. Granted, it's the 409 crap but, it does have to meet 100,000 mile durability tests that oems typically use for exhaust components.

I painted the bodies of the mufflers flat black with BBQ paint. I couldn't stand seeing the back plate of the cans under the bumper.
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2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
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Old 08-18-2013, 02:50 PM   #27
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Ill post a little more when Im at a computer, but I've had my transmission replaced after it blew even with a whipple. Its dealer dependent.
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Old 08-19-2013, 12:00 AM   #28
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FWIW, I really like the FRHP; mine, dealer-installed after 2 oil changes (with 8qts!) and 6000 miles. Shocks/dampers are adjustable and I do plan to take it to the track this year. Also like the FRPP Touring axle-backs for not-too loud awesome Borla sound (stainless cans should continue to look good for years). Easy self-install using ramps. Anyone wants the take-offs, PM me. CHEAP
8.5 quarts lol
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