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Old 11-08-2013, 05:34 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by 14rs3roush View Post

That's definitely not true...when the bottle is empty there is a big drop off in power
When your gas tank is empty there is a big drop off in power also.
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Old 11-08-2013, 05:52 AM   #107
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When your gas tank is empty there is a big drop off in power also.
That would apply to most cars...good observation.
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Old 11-08-2013, 06:09 AM   #108
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That would apply to most cars...good observation.
Just stating the obvious. Everyone who does not like nitrous probally got there *** drug by a nitrous car. My favorite cars to beat are other mustangs actually. They are just as bad as gm owners
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:17 AM   #109
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Small corrections...it's Roush and Phase 2, or 3 is what I think you meant to say.

---------- Post added at 05:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 AM ----------

I was told by one of the Roush techs that the stock Coyote is good to about 650 crank HP...after that you will be driving on borrowed time until something gives...that time is dependent on how hard you push it and how often.

People like to push the power but like I said with stock internals and transmission , rear end , drive shaft etc... you are taking a huge gamble rebuilding a motor or transmission is not cheap 500rwhp = around 600 to 650 at the crank.

---------- Post added at 05:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 AM ----------

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That's definitely not true...when the bottle is empty there is a big drop off in power





Exactly I like having power ALL the time.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:21 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by gladiatoro View Post


People like to push the power but like I said with stock internals and transmission , rear end , drive shaft etc... you are taking a huge gamble rebuilding a motor or transmission is not cheap 500rwhp = around 600 to 650 at the crank.
500 rwhp is not 600-650 at the crank. On a manual 500 would be about 560-575.

---------- Post added at 08:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:20 AM ----------

The transmission/ rear end are perfectly fine at 500, 600, 700 I will be testing them out at 800+ sometime in jan-feb
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:53 AM   #111
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500 rwhp is not 600-650 at the crank. On a manual 500 would be about 560-575.
You may be using very optimistic drivetrain power loss numbers...with your numbers you only lose 11-13% of the crank HP. Most engine builders and dyno operators use rough numbers of 15% for a manual and 18-20% for an automatic...so the 600-650 crank HP is reasonably accurate to get 500 or slightly more at the wheels, I think that's what he was trying to say. It's not an exact science by any stretch, but just a general rule of thumb. Each car and its drivetrain will absorb different amounts of the HP.
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:56 AM   #112
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Get the 150 shot NX wet system it come with 35, 50, 75, 100, 125, 150 shot jets. It comes with the safety features needed so you don't blow up your motor. That's what i'm getting when the warrantee runs out. I don't do a lot of WOT on the streets if I do it's usually just 0-60. The only time I will use the system is at the strip. I go there about twice a month May threw September. But when the warrantee is out and if the motor blows. Then I'm going forged and 200 shot minimum.

Wet system is the best way to go.
I agree with this, im in a push rod 5.0 but I started out with 50, then to 75 then moved up to 100 feeling, learning the car, how it handles and what felt safe imho...but felling instant rough 100 horse power when I floor it is a amazing feeling with out going with the HUGE pills 100 shot is crazy difference.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:07 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by 14rs3roush View Post
You may be using very optimistic drivetrain power loss numbers...with your numbers you only lose 11-13% of the crank HP. Most engine builders and dyno operators use rough numbers of 15% for a manual and 18-20% for an automatic...so the 600-650 crank HP is reasonably accurate to get 500 or slightly more at the wheels, I think that's what he was trying to say. It's not an exact science by any stretch, but just a general rule of thumb. Each car and its drivetrain will absorb different amounts of the HP.


Correct in a auto equipped mustang 20 % roughly parasitic loss is to be expected and standard 15 %or so 20% on 600 hp at the crank = around 500 rwhp . So 600 crank Hp would be a safe number to follow and should keep the car in one piece depending on driving habits of course , like I said you can push the envelope on your stock mustang but you have to ask yourself , do you feel lucky , well do you punk ... lol...
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:11 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by gladiatoro View Post



Correct in a auto equipped mustang 20 % roughly parasitic loss is to be expected and standard 15 %or so 20% on 600 hp at the crank = around 500 rwhp . So 600 crank Hp would be a safe number to follow and should keep the car in one piece depending on driving habits of course , like I said you can push the envelope on your stock mustang but you have to ask yourself , do you feel lucky , well do you punk ... lol...
My understanding was that the factory coyote engine can safely handly no more 625 rwhp. Therefore 500 rwhp was cake. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong!
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:14 AM   #115
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My understanding was that the factory coyote engine can safely handly no more 625 rwhp. Therefore 500 rwhp was cake. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong!
The stock Coyote can safely handle upto 650 HP at the CRANK...so around 520-550 at the rear wheels. It's easy to get the two mixed up.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:18 AM   #116
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Perhaps the 5.0 is can handle more Hp , not sure , but I found this on the 4.6 L.
Although I know guys who are running 600Hp+ at the crank with no problems with the 4.6 , it is however a BIG gamble without going forged internals and that runs around 5 k not cheap. Even with forged internals things can break , less chance of course but I would think one can run 600 RWHP all day .

What Break's in 2005-2011 Ford Mustangs - Hot Rod Magazine

---------- Post added at 07:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:16 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by 14rs3roush View Post
The stock Coyote can safely handle upto 650 HP at the CRANK...so a little over 500 at the rear wheels. It's easy to get the two mixed up.


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Old 11-08-2013, 09:21 AM   #117
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The mt-82 does not loose 15% through the drivetrain. You are talking about something you know nothing about
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:27 AM   #118
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5.0L Four-VALVE DOHC
Base power on the Mustang's new standard V8 is 412 hp and 390 lb-ft at the flywheel. So far Burcham is making 750 hp at the wheels at 8,000 rpm on a stock motor with no problems. Svinicki says the engines have been very durable so far. Others aren't so fortunate.
Con rods break (600 to 650 hp): At the CRANK HP ,Expect the rods to still be a weak link. Overall strength appears to fall somewhere between the three-valve and the Shelby 5.4L four-valves. Although he's not yet broken any rods personally, Burcham has already received reports of some failures.
Piston disintegration (nitrous or high boost): The pistons remain hypereutectic, so don't expect them to last long under high boost or a big nitrous shot. On the other hand, special oil jets enhance pin oiling, making them marginally better than previous three-valve pistons.
Crankshaft: The new 5.0 motors now use forged cranks. No problems so far. Ti-VCT problems (more than 6,500 rpm): At present, Comp is leaning toward a kit to lock out the factory Ti-VCT (Twin-independent Variable Cam Timing) actuation when running serious cams.
Fuel system: On the new 52-psi fuel system, it may be harder to alter system pressure and delivery characteristics than before.
Block: With quality rods and good forged pistons, the Coyote's improved aluminum block can easily support 1,500 hp.

Read more: What Break's in 2005-2011 Ford Mustangs - Hot Rod Magazine
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:31 AM   #119
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The wink link on the pistons is the ring glands. I have blown a stock coyote. Mine and my buddys both went at similar power levels. Both were the ring glands. And the stock block will not handle 1500hp. The block will have to be sleaved b4 it can even get close to that level reliably
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:33 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by gladiatoro View Post
5.0L Four-VALVE DOHC Base power on the Mustang's new standard V8 is 412 hp and 390 lb-ft at the flywheel. So far Burcham is making 750 hp at the wheels at 8,000 rpm on a stock motor with no problems. Svinicki says the engines have been very durable so far. Others aren't so fortunate. Con rods break (600 to 650 hp): At the CRANK HP ,Expect the rods to still be a weak link. Overall strength appears to fall somewhere between the three-valve and the Shelby 5.4L four-valves. Although he's not yet broken any rods personally, Burcham has already received reports of some failures. Piston disintegration (nitrous or high boost): The pistons remain hypereutectic, so don't expect them to last long under high boost or a big nitrous shot. On the other hand, special oil jets enhance pin oiling, making them marginally better than previous three-valve pistons. Crankshaft: The new 5.0 motors now use forged cranks. No problems so far. Ti-VCT problems (more than 6,500 rpm): At present, Comp is leaning toward a kit to lock out the factory Ti-VCT (Twin-independent Variable Cam Timing) actuation when running serious cams. Fuel system: On the new 52-psi fuel system, it may be harder to alter system pressure and delivery characteristics than before. Block: With quality rods and good forged pistons, the Coyote's improved aluminum block can easily support 1,500 hp. Read more: What Break's in 2005-2011 Ford Mustangs - Hot Rod Magazine
Did they swap to forged cranks in 2013?
I know the '12 v6 had a forged crank, and the GT had a powder forged or something like that? (I don't remember what it was called"
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:36 AM   #121
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All the 11-14 5.0 have forged cranks.

---------- Post added at 10:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:35 AM ----------

People who have never been on the inside of a coyote or had one blow. Shouldn't give there opinions.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:47 AM   #122
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Rapinator...did this thread touch a sensitive nerve? It's ok.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:51 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by 14rs3roush View Post
Rapinator...did this thread touch a sensitive nerve? It's ok.
No bc how many of yall actually have had exp? Most of yall dont know a dam thing and are giving advice that is not true

---------- Post added at 10:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

Just like the 11-14 stage 3 roush needs a tune horribly. A stock roush rs3 will get walked by a full exhaust/bolton coyote. And a cam only 06 c6
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:52 AM   #124
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Take a breath. Relax.
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:53 AM   #125
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Take a breath. Relax.
Lol
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:56 AM   #126
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Rapinator...did this thread touch a sensitive nerve? It's ok.
Bottom line the more Hp you run the higher risk of engine failure , it really is THAT SIMPLE. Or in other words GREED KILLS lol...
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Old 11-08-2013, 09:58 AM   #127
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Bottom line the more Hp you run the higher risk of engine failure , it really is THAT SIMPLE. Or in other words GREED KILLS lol...
Exactly, so choose your HP level wisely
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #128
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Exactly, so choose your HP level wisely




That's why I'm going to be a bit conservative with my mustang 550-600 hp at the crank is enough for me for a daily driver... I want her to last.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:01 AM   #129
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I agree...that's more than enough to have fun!
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:04 AM   #130
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I agree...that's more than enough to have fun!
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:26 AM   #131
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I agree...that's more than enough to have fun!
Depends. On what you consider fun. 550 at the tires is the minimum I would want

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:26 AM ----------

Tires not crank
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:27 AM   #132
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The mt-82 does not loose 15% through the drivetrain. You are talking about something you know nothing about
^ This. They loose around 12-13%. I believe automatics are closer to 18%.
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Old 11-08-2013, 10:29 AM   #133
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^ This. They loose around 12-13%. I believe automatics are closer to 18%.
Correct
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:21 AM   #134
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I think rapinators problem with this thread is the misinformation. There are probably 100+ guys in this forum running upwards of 600RWHP on their blown coyotes and daily driving them everyday with zero issues. They aren't answering in this thread probably because of the responses it is getting. My car right off the showroom floor dynoed at 374rwhp and had 412hp at the crank, so what percentage of drivetrain loss is that?

The rods being the weak link is wrong, the crank being the weak link is wrong and nobody uses a aluminum block for a 1500hp application that I know of without some serious modifications to it. From what I have seen, read, and witnessed the pistons are the first to go in these cars. These cars were designed to rev high and be effecient in the upper rpm range but their compression and lack of superior parts to keep cost down are what keep them from being amazing. I seriously doubt you couldn't make 1000hp on a coyote motor with stock heads, forged lower, and a power adder. They are completely different than the 2v, 3v, and 4vs of the past. Most 2v cars can't even get out of their own way without cams and a blower and the same goes for some 3v cars.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:39 AM   #135
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I think there are a lot of race teams that would like to have your drivetrain efficiency of losing only 9%... Lol
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:41 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by mystang50 View Post

I agree with this, im in a push rod 5.0 but I started out with 50, then to 75 then moved up to 100 feeling, learning the car, how it handles and what felt safe imho...but felling instant rough 100 horse power when I floor it is a amazing feeling with out going with the HUGE pills 100 shot is crazy difference.
Those hp numbers per shot are rwhp.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:47 AM   #137
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I think there are a lot of race teams that would like to have your drivetrain efficiency of losing only 9%... Lol
Dyno your rs3. The reason you loose so much is bc of the crapy roush tune.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #138
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Dyno your rs3. The reason you loose so much is bc of the crapy roush tune.
Wow...I did touch a nerve...that was never my intent and I apologize if it upsets you.
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Old 11-08-2013, 11:54 AM   #139
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Wow...I did touch a nerve...that was never my intent and I apologize if it upsets you.
No bc of your lack of knowledge. My 5.0 did 377 bone stock
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Old 11-08-2013, 12:27 PM   #140
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Race teams do have less. That's why they drop weight in the car, forged wheels, lightweight driveshaft and flywheel...etc. all promotes HP/weight ratio
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