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Old 01-06-2014, 11:50 AM   #1
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BAMA Tune - Too Much SPARK? Worried.

I'm currently using BAMA tunes and I had a friend of mine who is familiar with the tuning realm datalog my car the other day. He has noticed that my car had too much spark at WOT. Also to have in mind is that this took place in 35 degree weather which is very cold and could be possible that the system allowed the spark to be higher.

Ultimately, the friend who data logged my car said he'd highly recommend me to contact BAMA to get a less aggressive tune lowering my spark level.

What are y'all opinions on this? Is my transmission in huge danger with the spark level high?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. - I drive a 2014 GT A6
Mods - off road x and cold air intake.
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Old 01-06-2014, 12:29 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by seville View Post
I'm currently using BAMA tunes and I had a friend of mine who is familiar with the tuning realm datalog my car the other day. He has noticed that my car had too much spark at WOT. Also to have in mind is that this took place in 35 degree weather which is very cold and could be possible that the system allowed the spark to be higher.

Ultimately, the friend who data logged my car said he'd highly recommend me to contact BAMA to get a less aggressive tune lowering my spark level.

What are y'all opinions on this? Is my transmission in huge danger with the spark level high?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. - I drive a 2014 GT A6
Mods - off road x and cold air intake.
I don't think there's anything to be worried about. It's definitely possible for you to see 29 degrees of timing on a 2011+ GT. The new 5.0L GT's definitely love timing, I've seen mid to high 20's on my 2011 GT as well.

If you're worried about the tune, feel free to contact the Bama team and we can look into your tune. I always recommend sending in datalogs just so we can check out your tune and see how everything is running. This will allow us to make any necessary changes!

Our Bama Performance tuning specialists are here in the building Monday-Friday from 9AM-5:30PM EST and Saturday 9AM-5:30PM EST. You can hit them up directly at 888.226.9764 and they'll get you squared away!

-Dan
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Old 01-06-2014, 04:38 PM   #3
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I don't think there's anything to be worried about. It's definitely possible for you to see 29 degrees of timing on a 2011+ GT. The new 5.0L GT's definitely love timing, I've seen mid to high 20's on my 2011 GT as well.

If you're worried about the tune, feel free to contact the Bama team and we can look into your tune. I always recommend sending in datalogs just so we can check out your tune and see how everything is running. This will allow us to make any necessary changes!

Our Bama Performance tuning specialists are here in the building Monday-Friday from 9AM-5:30PM EST and Saturday 9AM-5:30PM EST. You can hit them up directly at 888.226.9764 and they'll get you squared away!

-Dan
Dan, you really need to talk to your tuners. 29 degrees of timing is extremely dangerous on the 5.0 and no these engines do not enjoy timing. There is a reason why AM has blown engines. Seriously, please stop.
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Old 01-06-2014, 09:49 PM   #4
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**UPDATE** - Just received the numbers from my friend. 29.5 Degrees on 93 pump gas at 40 degrees temperature outside.
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Old 01-06-2014, 11:50 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by seville View Post
I'm currently using BAMA tunes and I had a friend of mine who is familiar with the tuning realm datalog my car the other day. He has noticed that my car had too much spark at WOT. Also to have in mind is that this took place in 35 degree weather which is very cold and could be possible that the system allowed the spark to be higher.

Ultimately, the friend who data logged my car said he'd highly recommend me to contact BAMA to get a less aggressive tune lowering my spark level.

What are y'all opinions on this? Is my transmission in huge danger with the spark level high?

Thanks in advance.

P.S. - I drive a 2014 GT A6
Mods - off road x and cold air intake.
Holy **** that much timing? Get a Lund tune. He knows what he's doing. No one tunes better than Lund, his name isnt on record holding cars for nothing. If u want a Lund Racing tune buy it from LethalPerformance.com I have two from Lund and they love seeing data logs to dial in your tune to maximize the output SAFELY!
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:06 AM   #6
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I'm sorry, but 29 degrees of timing is not safe by any stretch.
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:49 AM   #7
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I am currently running a bama hybrid tune and after reading this I got a little concerned so I data logged my vehicle as well. I am a complete noob when it comes to tuning and understanding what the values mean. I selected the pids based on the instructions from bama but what values do I need to look at to see how much timing I am pulling? I emailed the file to bama last night so hopefully they will make any corrections if needed but I would like to have a general understanding for myself. Thanks in advance for any and all help and sorry to hijack thread but figured there may be some others that could gain from this as well.

-Josh
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:25 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jayday20 View Post
I am currently running a bama hybrid tune and after reading this I got a little concerned so I data logged my vehicle as well. I am a complete noob when it comes to tuning and understanding what the values mean. I selected the pids based on the instructions from bama but what values do I need to look at to see how much timing I am pulling? I emailed the file to bama last night so hopefully they will make any corrections if needed but I would like to have a general understanding for myself. Thanks in advance for any and all help and sorry to hijack thread but figured there may be some others that could gain from this as well.

-Josh
Email either Lund or another of my favorites and best tuners Shaun at AED and send them a data log they will rip it apart and tell you how unsafe ur tune is.
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Old 01-07-2014, 09:36 AM   #9
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Email either Lund or another of my favorites and best tuners Shaun at AED and send them a data log they will rip it apart and tell you how unsafe ur tune is.

Will they look for free or will I have to pay and if so how much for a revision of my current tune?
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:00 AM   #10
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Dan, you really need to talk to your tuners. 29 degrees of timing is extremely dangerous on the 5.0 and no these engines do not enjoy timing. There is a reason why AM has blown engines. Seriously, please stop.
Let me reiterate.. We target 25-27* of timing when writing our tunes, sometime it could dip into the 27's. However, your knock sensors are completely active so they're going to add and remove timing pretty actively. I don't think it's extremely dangerous for the car to see 29* of timing at WOT with 93" octane on a cold day. However, 29* is a little high but we're not targeting 29*, we're targeting 25-27* and your knock sensors are adding timing because they don't hear knock. Your Coyote most likely won't knock with 28-29 degrees of timing on a 93 Race tune. We can definitely adjust the tune for you though and pull out a little timing, just to be safe!

Also, I'm not sure where you read that Bama is blowing up cars because that is not true. What you may be thinking of is the Cylinder #8 issues that a ton of tuners were experiencing when the 5.0L Coyote platform was first released? Even with that, we're the only company to offer a Cylinder #8 warranty to back up our tunes. We're confident in our tunes and if a customer did have an issue, our warranty would back them up.

I hope this clears things up. Let me know if you have any further questions.

-Dan
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:39 AM   #11
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Let me reiterate.. We target 25-26* of timing when writing our tunes, sometime it could dip into the 27's. However, your knock sensors are completely active so they're going to add and remove timing pretty actively. I don't think it's extremely dangerous for the car to see 29* of timing at WOT with 93" octane on a cold day. 29* is a little high but we're not targeting 29*, we're targeting 25* and your knock sensors are adding timing because they don't hear knock. Your Coyote most likely won't knock with 28-29 degrees of timing on a 93 Race tune.



Also, I'm not sure where you read that Bama is blowing up cars because that is not true. What you may be thinking of is the Cylinder #8 issues that a ton of tuners were experiencing when the 5.0L Coyote platform was first released? Even with that, we're the only company to offer a Cylinder #8 warranty to back up our tunes. We're confident in our tunes and if a customer did have an issue, our warranty would back them up.



I hope this clears things up. Let me know if you have any further questions.



-Dan

Hey dan I shot bama an email last night with my data log, after doing some reading it looks like my afr was spot on but the spark advance was running at 29 during wot will that be something that will be adjusted? Also Is it normal for that value to increase significantly when decelerating? I saw values as high as in the 40's! Like stated in a previous post I am new to all this but I have been reading trying to learn as much as possible.

Thanks,
Josh
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Old 01-07-2014, 02:18 PM   #12
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Hey dan I shot bama an email last night with my data log, after doing some reading it looks like my afr was spot on but the spark advance was running at 29 during wot will that be something that will be adjusted? Also Is it normal for that value to increase significantly when decelerating? I saw values as high as in the 40's! Like stated in a previous post I am new to all this but I have been reading trying to learn as much as possible.

Thanks,
Josh
Yes, we can pull a little timing out of the car for you. However, like I said above we're only commanding 25 degrees of timing. Your knock sensors will add timing if it can take it and will pull some out if you start getting Knock.

Yes, it's also completely normal to see in the 40's while decelerating. Ford actually commands 60 while decelerating across the board, no matter what temperature the cars at or the RPM. That's unrealitic because the PCM is going to cap it below 50 anyway.

I hope this clears things up!

-Dan
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:12 PM   #13
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Thanks a lot Dan that makes me feel better like I said just trying to learn as I am completely new to all this stuff. I been emailing Ryan back and forth and decided to have him pull some timing just for peace of mind. He has been very helpful and informative as well. Now I am just waiting on the new tune to load!

Thanks,
Josh
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:41 PM   #14
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Will they look for free or will I have to pay and if so how much for a revision of my current tune?
AED won't even tune your car without looking at your logs first. Shaun doesn't want to take on someone else headache.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:47 PM   #15
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Let me reiterate.. We target 25-26* of timing when writing our tunes, sometime it could dip into the 27's. However, your knock sensors are completely active so they're going to add and remove timing pretty actively. I don't think it's extremely dangerous for the car to see 29* of timing at WOT with 93" octane on a cold day. 29* is a little high but we're not targeting 29*, we're targeting 25* and your knock sensors are adding timing because they don't hear knock. Your Coyote most likely won't knock with 28-29 degrees of timing on a 93 Race tune.

Also, I'm not sure where you read that Bama is blowing up cars because that is not true. What you may be thinking of is the Cylinder #8 issues that a ton of tuners were experiencing when the 5.0L Coyote platform was first released? Even with that, we're the only company to offer a Cylinder #8 warranty to back up our tunes. We're confident in our tunes and if a customer did have an issue, our warranty would back them up.

I hope this clears things up. Let me know if you have any further questions.

-Dan
The ironic thing is YOU guys were turning off the knock sensors in the beginning to make power thus blowing motors. Your wonderful #8 cylinder warranty was a way to cover up the damage that had been already done. But it was a great marketing ploy I'll give you that.

Also there are tuners out there that have never had a blown motor come out of their tunes. How many have you guys had? I would love to hear the answer on this.
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Old 01-07-2014, 03:59 PM   #16
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BAMA Tune - Too Much SPARK? Worried.

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The ironic thing is YOU guys were turning off the knock sensors in the beginning to make power thus blowing motors. Your wonderful #8 cylinder warranty was a way to cover up the damage that had been already done. But it was a great marketing ploy I'll give you that.

Also there are tuners out there that have never had a blown motor come out of their tunes. How many have you guys had? I would love to hear the answer on this.

+1, I read about that somewhere, if I get a tune, it will either be Steeda or Ford Racing, probably not Bama. Steeda has never blown an engine, and Ford Racing has a 3 year warranty on the tune. I've read about too many problems with their tuning.
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Old 01-07-2014, 04:05 PM   #17
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The ironic thing is YOU guys were turning off the knock sensors in the beginning to make power thus blowing motors. Your wonderful #8 cylinder warranty was a way to cover up the damage that had been already done. But it was a great marketing ploy I'll give you that.

Also there are tuners out there that have never had a blown motor come out of their tunes. How many have you guys had? I would love to hear the answer on this.

Dang, you beat me to it. Whats that saying about a warranty and crap, I thinks its from Tommy Boy?

Dan, you don't tune and by your responses it shows. 29 degrees is terrible and you can still run that much timing with correct A/F. OP, get a different tune, 100 dollars for a new tune is much cheaper than 7k for a new motor.
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Old 01-07-2014, 05:30 PM   #18
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BAMA Tune - Too Much SPARK? Worried.

There's a guy in the mustang source forum that has had a big problem with a bama tune. Perhaps if you use that forum he may be of help.

No AM rep has responded to his issues though. Lots of others have commented however.
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Old 01-08-2014, 08:45 AM   #19
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I know of 2 cars personally that had bama tunes and no other tunes ever installed on the cars and both blew #8 .. and one was tuned in person on AM's dyno in house. And am told both guys to basically pound sand.. they didn't offer one cent to cover their #8 warranty and didnt help either person out.. so I take that #8 warranty ploy and scam with a grain of salt . Like posted earlier good ploy though to manipulate the average Joe.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:21 AM   #20
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The ironic thing is YOU guys were turning off the knock sensors in the beginning to make power thus blowing motors. Your wonderful #8 cylinder warranty was a way to cover up the damage that had been already done. But it was a great marketing ploy I'll give you that.

Also there are tuners out there that have never had a blown motor come out of their tunes. How many have you guys had? I would love to hear the answer on this.
Some of our earliest tunes for 2011+ Mustangs did modify the knock sensor parameters. However, we updated all of those customers in that few week window that were affected by it. That was something that we did over 2 years ago! Before then and ever since then we left the knock sensors fully functional. This was a very early learning curve for the Coyote platform. That's why we've been offering the warranty for so long, but cylinder #8 issues seem to be a topic of the past for the most part.

You have to understand that we do 100 Mustang tunes for every 1 that a competitor tunes. So unfortunately volume is working against us. However, you can find numerous threads were people have said "Bama is a safe alternative and a custom dyno tune will get you closer to the edge". We don't push the limits at all. Our goal is to make the most power that we can safely and consistently deliver. Many other tuners have had cylinder #8 issues, but that's not really our focus. Someone else can call them out.

We've had very few people submit legitimate warranty claims out of the tens of thousands of 2011+ GT's that we've tuned. I hope this clears things up. Feel free to hit me up if you have any further questions.

-Dan

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I know of 2 cars personally that had bama tunes and no other tunes ever installed on the cars and both blew #8 .. and one was tuned in person on AM's dyno in house. And am told both guys to basically pound sand.. they didn't offer one cent to cover their #8 warranty and didnt help either person out.. so I take that #8 warranty ploy and scam with a grain of salt . Like posted earlier good ploy though to manipulate the average Joe.
Anyone that has submitted a legitimate warranty complaint that has met the requirements laid out in the warranty has been covered as we're legally obligated to do. Anyone who says that we aren't standing behind it is likely not sharing a big detail. However, we haven't denied many claims that I know of. If you have a specific person in mind shoot me a PM and I can look further into it.

Thanks and I hope this helps.

-Dan
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:27 AM   #21
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Drop the bama tune buddy. Thats your best bet. And for the person saying the coyotes do not like timing. Obviously you not to sure on what your talking about.
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:44 AM   #22
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Thanks a lot Dan that makes me feel better like I said just trying to learn as I am completely new to all this stuff. I been emailing Ryan back and forth and decided to have him pull some timing just for peace of mind. He has been very helpful and informative as well. Now I am just waiting on the new tune to load!

Thanks,
Josh
You're welcome. I'm glad to hear you've been in contact with Ryan over at Bama he'll definitely get you squared away quickly. He will review your datalogs and make any necessary adjustments for you!

Enjoy your new tune, I'm sure this one will be much better! Let me know how it goes. I would recommend datalogging your new tune and sending it back to Ryan just to make sure everything is in good shape!

-Dan
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:49 AM   #23
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I know of 2 cars personally that had bama tunes and no other tunes ever installed on the cars and both blew #8 .. and one was tuned in person on AM's dyno in house. And am told both guys to basically pound sand.. they didn't offer one cent to cover their #8 warranty and didnt help either person out.. so I take that #8 warranty ploy and scam with a grain of salt . Like posted earlier good ploy though to manipulate the average Joe.
How long ago was this? When did there #8 blow up?
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:52 AM   #24
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You're welcome. I'm glad to hear you've been in contact with Ryan over at Bama he'll definitely get you squared away quickly. He will review your datalogs and make any necessary adjustments for you!



Enjoy your new tune, I'm sure this one will be much better! Let me know how it goes. I would recommend datalogging your new tune and sending it back to Ryan just to make sure everything is in good shape!



-Dan

I plan on doing another log this weekend, the temps are supposed to be up near 60 so figured that would be a good time to collect data. Thanks again Dan!

-Josh
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Old 01-08-2014, 09:57 AM   #25
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How long ago was this? When did there #8 blow up?
Last year.. when the warranties came out.. one of them was tuned by mike Wilson and it was a basic bolt on car long tubes, x pipe , jlt intake and boss manifold. The car wasn't previously tuned and after install of parts drove up on a email tune and dyno tuned in am facility. It lasted probably 4 months before loosing compression in the #8 cylinder. Logging the car before it blew was running somewhere in the neighborhood of 30° + timing , the owner assumed it was ok based on the fact it was tuned in person..
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:06 AM   #26
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Last year.. when the warranties came out.. one of them was tuned by mike Wilson and it was a basic bolt on car long tubes, x pipe , jlt intake and boss manifold. The car wasn't previously tuned and after install of parts drove up on a email tune and dyno tuned in am facility. It lasted probably 4 months before loosing compression in the #8 cylinder. Logging the car before it blew was running somewhere in the neighborhood of 30° + timing , the owner assumed it was ok based on the fact it was tuned in person..
Since AM failed to honor the #8 warranty, how is your buddies law suit going? Any good news to report on the status of the suit or has it not gotten a court date. Being that his engine was destroyed and AM told him too piss off and not honor the warranty, that must of been a easy decision to file a law suit. How is that suit going?
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:10 AM   #27
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I know of 2 cars personally that had bama tunes and no other tunes ever installed on the cars and both blew #8 .. and one was tuned in person on AM's dyno in house. And am told both guys to basically pound sand.. they didn't offer one cent to cover their #8 warranty and didnt help either person out.. so I take that #8 warranty ploy and scam with a grain of salt . Like posted earlier good ploy though to manipulate the average Joe.

How well do you know the guy? Just can't help but to think there is more to the story. I mean if this is true since there is a warranty specifically for number 8 issues AM wouldn't have a leg to stand on so obviously the guy is not telling you something.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:16 AM   #28
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How well do you know the guy? Just can't help but to think there is more to the story. I mean if this is true since there is a warranty specifically for number 8 issues AM wouldn't have a leg to stand on so obviously the guy is not telling you something.
I'm confident the buddy filed a law suit for AM not honoring the the warranty and having his engine blow up. Let's wait and hear the status of this lawsuit.

Now I am catching a very familiar scent here on the forum and not a pleasant scent but a scent of BULL MANURE.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:27 AM   #29
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I know him pretty well. I do know the car was a dd and it only hit the track once or twice after the tune. The car was put back to stock and traded back to ford for a new 13 and the car smoked a bit and when he traded it the dealer didn't know at the time until it went through service. I do know that the old car was repaired by dealership after trade but unsure who ate the bill. The new 13 has only a cat back and will only see a revolution automotive tune per say the owner. The other car just assumed responsibility and built a bottom end and it now has a blower.
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Old 01-08-2014, 10:28 AM   #30
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It's pungent and stings the nostrils!
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:24 AM   #31
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Yup smells like so much BS!! It can't be true cause its am and there steller warranty and awesome canned tunes! I know its hard to believe that a bama tune blew a few motors.. ugh such bs. And even a in person tune from lead calibrator mike Wilson blew a car up.. .man I know crazy huh..
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Old 01-08-2014, 11:27 AM   #32
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Will they look for free or will I have to pay and if so how much for a revision of my current tune?
AED will just look at it and tell u how bad it is or good it is because before even attemoting to tune your car he asks for 2 or 3 data logs to be sure their is no issues before hand with ur car. So yea he will take a gander. AED charges 250 or 200 but god damn is he a great tuner. He and Lund will get u a handfull HP from a dyno tune. They do a good amount of data logging to dial it in perfectly. Im kn my 4th revision to tweak my race and ghost cam tune from Lund.

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Old 01-08-2014, 12:24 PM   #33
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I know him pretty well. I do know the car was a dd and it only hit the track once or twice after the tune. The car was put back to stock and traded back to ford for a new 13 and the car smoked a bit and when he traded it the dealer didn't know at the time until it went through service. I do know that the old car was repaired by dealership after trade but unsure who ate the bill. The new 13 has only a cat back and will only see a revolution automotive tune per say the owner. The other car just assumed responsibility and built a bottom end and it now has a blower.
So, AM blew up the engine, your buddy put it back to stock and traded it in for a 13.
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:34 PM   #34
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Yup smells like so much BS!! It can't be true cause its am and there steller warranty and awesome canned tunes! I know its hard to believe that a bama tune blew a few motors.. ugh such bs. And even a in person tune from lead calibrator mike Wilson blew a car up.. .man I know crazy huh..
Back when the 11's first came out there were some issues with the #8 because it was a learning process with the new coyote engines. That was over 3 years ago and no warranty was in place back then. If buddies engine was destroyed last year then the #8 warranty was long in effect. If Mike Wilson and AM blew up your buddies engine because of the tune then , how is the law suit doing? What's the update on that? I would think your buddy took legal action after having his brand new engine blown up and AM not honoring the warranty for the failure of #8..
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Old 01-08-2014, 12:40 PM   #35
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Back when the 11's first came out there were some issues with the #8 because it was a learning process with the new coyote engines. That was over 3 years ago and no warranty was in place back then. If buddies engine was destroyed last year then the #8 warranty was long in effect. If Mike Wilson and AM blew up your buddies engine because of the tune then , how is the law suit doing? What's the update on that? I would think your buddy took legal action after having his brand new engine blown up and AM not honoring the warranty for the failure of #8..

I can't get past that fact that he traded the car in was he aware of the damage when he traded it? Sounds like he ripped somebody off.
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