Edelbrock supercharger for the 2010 4,6 3V gt - Mustang Evolution

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Old 03-30-2014, 01:38 PM   #1
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Cool Edelbrock supercharger for the 2010 4,6 3V gt

Good day, new to this, I just ordered a edelbrock superchager stage 2, and kind of wondering what will the actual hp at the heels be. Also if you guys could help I'm looking to see how wide of a tire can I mount on my 20* 10 on the rear and still have them inside the fenders. Any and all help is greatly appreciated


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Old 03-31-2014, 04:04 PM   #2
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Hi, I have 295's /30/ with 20" rims and they just fit inside the fender wall.
Check out my profile , A stage 2 edelbrock kit depending on the tuner
and company up to 600 Hp crank which is 480 RWHP that is with the
Brenspeed kit , but you are really pushing the stock car with this
as long as your not on the throttle all the time you should be ok.
Most say 450RWHP is about the limit for a stock drivetrain set up
especially the motor . A stage 2 will have a psi boost of around 11psi to
13psi depending on elevation.
again pushing the limit there but like said you should be ok if
you don't race it , quarter mile it , or keep redlining it.

I'm in the process of doing the same thing although I may just draw the
limit at 400 RWHP and a boost of 5 psi or 500Hp at the crank
, then later forge the internals THEN bring the boost up to 17 PSI
and that equates to around 700+ Hp Crank . That would be the safe
way to do it. But you have to ask yourself do you feel luck , well do you
punk ha....
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Old 04-01-2014, 08:55 AM   #3
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Nothing's worse than popping a big blower on and having to moderate your foot to keep the spinny bits inside the engine. That's the problem with the 4.6, it's made of glass inside so asking for more than 100 horse over stock is completely crossing fingers and touching the lucky unicorn horn.

Like has been said, 450 is about where stuff starts to get all melty. A very carefully crafted tune might be ok but it can blow at less, too.

Forge and build the engine for boost and the sky's the limit but, stock is severely limited on what can be done reliably.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
Nothing's worse than popping a big blower on and having to moderate your foot to keep the spinny bits inside the engine. That's the problem with the 4.6, it's made of glass inside so asking for more than 100 horse over stock is completely crossing fingers and touching the lucky unicorn horn.

Like has been said, 450 is about where stuff starts to get all melty. A very carefully crafted tune might be ok but it can blow at less, too.

Forge and build the engine for boost and the sky's the limit but, stock is severely limited on what can be done reliably.


400 RWHP would be safe anymore and yeah your taking a chance.
If you have the dough forge and blow that being said the stage 1
kit is about right 466 crank hp but I would say 500 crank hp is fine.
Which equals to roughly 400 rwhp like I said taking into account
a 18% drive train loss with auto.
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Old 04-01-2014, 11:37 PM   #5
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Fack dude, you keep throwing these numbers around like there's some kind of magic formula. People don't use the same numbers/formulas/bumf to "calculate" HP increases everywhere and that stage 1 kit is plenty to fry a stock 4.6, if the tune's even slightly off.
..and % driveline loss...really? So a 500 horse cars consumes more power to push its driveline than 400 horse car? It's nonsense, always has been.

Real engines and real situations don't work like this. Educate yourself, really, and get your hands dirty on some of this stuff. I've been doing this stuff for over 30 years and it's blue-sky thinking like what you are doing that ends up with a car busted in the driveway, every time. Wouldn't say it if I hadn't done it, multiple times.
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:03 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
Fack dude, you keep throwing these numbers around like there's some kind of magic formula. People don't use the same numbers/formulas/bumf to "calculate" HP increases everywhere and that stage 1 kit is plenty to fry a stock 4.6, if the tune's even slightly off.
..and % driveline loss...really? So a 500 horse cars consumes more power to push its driveline than 400 horse car? It's nonsense, always has been.

Real engines and real situations don't work like this. Educate yourself, really, and get your hands dirty on some of this stuff. I've been doing this stuff for over 30 years and it's blue-sky thinking like what you are doing that ends up with a car busted in the driveway, every time. Wouldn't say it if I hadn't done it, multiple times.
If you have a safe tune KEY word SAFE TUNE and good fuel you should be fine . If you talk to JDM, those guys have lots of Saleen S/C cars running over 550 RWHP on the 4.6 3V WITHOUT A SINGLE FAILURE. Do your homework FIRST before you insult me.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:14 AM   #7
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No offense, man but you ain't Jdm or saleen, nor am I. But your thinking here and elsewhere, suggests you don't really understand engines, FI or haven't done too much of this before. There's a or more to building durability at high power than slapping a blower on and a "safe" tune.

Maybe I'm wrong, you know what you're doing and I'm reading something into your posts that isn't reflective of reality.

I thought about it some more and I thought I'd toss this bone your way, to help me see your thinking:

Do you understand the durability differences between setting up an engine for a positive displacement blower over a centrifugal style? Which hits harder and demands more careful attention to the rotating assembly?
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Old 04-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
No offense, man but you ain't Jdm or saleen, nor am I. But your thinking here and elsewhere, suggests you don't really understand engines, FI or haven't done too much of this before. There's a or more to building durability at high power than slapping a blower on and a "safe" tune.

Maybe I'm wrong, you know what you're doing and I'm reading something into your posts that isn't reflective of reality.

I thought about it some more and I thought I'd toss this bone your way, to help me see your thinking:

Do you understand the durability differences between setting up an engine for a positive displacement blower over a centrifugal style? Which hits harder and demands more careful attention to the rotating assembly?
No doubt a positive displacement blower would hit harder and would
demand more careful attention yes , I have been reading lots on the
e-force as I plan to install one soon of course one always gets greedy
and wants more power but a low boost of 5psi should be no problem
in fact I read many times that v8 engines prefer a little boost pressure
and run smoother . No doubt you have way more experience than me
with engines I have owned a lot of cars but since this is my first supercharged
application I am in new territory . That being said the tune edelbrock
offers with the stage 1 kit I'm sure is safe for now all I'm adding is the competition air intake this is a gain of 30 hp so for a total of 493 crank Hp at a low boost like I said of 5psi. Question do you think a boost a pump which
I already own would be needed at this low boost level ?

Any more and forging would be the way to go no doubt just to have a happy
engine.
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Old 04-03-2014, 12:23 PM   #9
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Old 04-03-2014, 01:54 PM   #10
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Ok, first, stop assuming crank hp is somehow magically dialed down to safety because the driveline consumes some power to drive it. A bad tank of gas or tuning malfunction can still pop any motor, even in the "safe" zone.

Around 500 like you describe is pushing a 4.6 hard, regardless of whether it seems like low boost or not. Boost isn't any measure of safety, it's just a measure of restriction in the engine. 5 psi on a dohc 5.0 and a 3v are massively different in cfm and power production.

I hate boost a pumps, even the new ones which are a lot better. It's just not sensible to jack up voltage and expect consistent pressure and volume from the same pump. Remember, pressure and volume are inverse.
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
Ok, first, stop assuming crank hp is somehow magically dialed down to safety because the driveline consumes some power to drive it. A bad tank of gas or tuning malfunction can still pop any motor, even in the "safe" zone.

Around 500 like you describe is pushing a 4.6 hard, regardless of whether it seems like low boost or not. Boost isn't any measure of safety, it's just a measure of restriction in the engine. 5 psi on a dohc 5.0 and a 3v are massively different in cfm and power production.

I hate boost a pumps, even the new ones which are a lot better. It's just not sensible to jack up voltage and expect consistent pressure and volume from the same pump. Remember, pressure and volume are inverse.
So what do you recommend not SUPERCHARGE the motor at all ? Or
only SUPERCHARGE if the motor has been forged ? I understand 500 Hp
at the crank means the motor is producing 500 Hp and has to deal
with that increase , Look at the Shelby Gt 500's they are all boosted
no doubt they are forged from the factory though and the 2013 produces an amazing 662 Hp The older ones 500-550Hp. And from what I have
read the stage 1 e-force does not need a boost a pump it is designed to
handle that much power which is advertised at 466 Hp , no doubt the tune adjusts the
pump voltage somehow to compensate for increased fuel demands.
Thanks for the tips though .
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Old 04-03-2014, 07:49 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by gladiatoro View Post
So what do you recommend not SUPERCHARGE the motor at all ? Or
only SUPERCHARGE if the motor has been forged ? I understand 500 Hp
at the crank means the motor is producing 500 Hp and has to deal
with that increase , Look at the Shelby Gt 500's they are all boosted
no doubt they are forged from the factory though . And from what I have
read the stage 1 e-force does not need a boost a pump it is designed to
handle that much power which is 466 , no doubt the tune adjusts the
pump voltage somehow to compensate for increased fuel needs.
Thanks for the tips though .
1- the gt500's are not forged.
2- you will need a boost a pump. Your stock fuel pump will not support a 150hp + on its own.
3- you honestly honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
4- go ahead and put it on since you said you already have it, and get it tuned and go with it.

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Old 04-03-2014, 07:53 PM   #13
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1- the gt500's are not forged.
2- you will need a boost a pump. Your stock fuel pump will not support a 150hp + on its own.
3- you honestly honestly have no clue what you are talking about.
4- go ahead and put it on since you said you already have it, and get it tuned and go with it.

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That's why I'm trying to figure out the best plan of action , and yes it's my first supercharged muscle car that being said I'm trying to figure out if I should
forge before I throw on my SUPERCHARGER or just go with low boost for now.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:00 PM   #14
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That's why I'm trying to figure out the best plan of action , and yes it's my first supercharged muscle car that being said I'm trying to figure out if I should
forge before I throw on my SUPERCHARGER or just go with low boost for now.
You will be fine with up to 450hp at the tires on stock motor with a good tune.

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Old 04-03-2014, 08:10 PM   #15
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You will be fine with up to 450hp at the tires on stock motor with a good tune.

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That's what I hear over and over again I guess I am just cautious
as a blown up motor is not something I want to deal with. 450rwhp = about 550 at the motor. That sounds pretty good to me for now. I can always forge later and increase boost then. I'll use my Kenne Bell boost a pump even though some people don't like them I think they are fine from what I have read.

Thanks.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:12 PM   #16
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That's what I hear over and over again I guess I am just cautious
as a blown up motor is not something I want to deal with. 450rwhp = about 550 at the motor. That sounds pretty good to me for now. I can always forge later and increase boost then. I'll use my boost a pump even though some people don't like them I think they are fine from what I have read.

Thanks.
Boost a pump is needed as larger injectors are also. They are perfectly fine to use

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Old 04-03-2014, 08:22 PM   #17
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You know you are biting deep into the durability safety margin on the stock engine. Nobody wants to hear it but that's reality. Want insurance? Forge now. Want to take a chance and accept that you may nuke the motor a lot sooner than you might if you left it? Turn up the boost and see what shakes loose.

I've used every kind of power adder there is, across multiple platforms. I love strapping a low boost supercharger on a stock engine and just magnifying the already good stock properties. I won't do it on a motor with known fragility if I feel I can't control my own greed very well.

You haven't even mentioned once a systems approach here. The rest of the driveline isn't going to like this jump in power too much. It's not insta-blow but, you'll be wanting a new clutch pretty soon and the suspension has to be built up some to take this shyt as well.

Tunes don't alter pump voltage, btw, they just adjust the injector pulsewidth and firing timing to accommodate the additional oxygen in the chamber. That's how engines make power, with fuel, not air. You will need bigger injectors and a boost a pump, minimum here.
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Old 04-03-2014, 08:41 PM   #18
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Back when I had my 3v it was 435 at the tires on stock motor. 40k hard miles, i sold it and got 28k for it. Still ran just as hard

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Old 04-03-2014, 10:51 PM   #19
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You know you are biting deep into the durability safety margin on the stock engine. Nobody wants to hear it but that's reality. Want insurance? Forge now. Want to take a chance and accept that you may nuke the motor a lot sooner than you might if you left it? Turn up the boost and see what shakes loose.

I've used every kind of power adder there is, across multiple platforms. I love strapping a low boost supercharger on a stock engine and just magnifying the already good stock properties. I won't do it on a motor with known fragility if I feel I can't control my own greed very well.

You haven't even mentioned once a systems approach here. The rest of the driveline isn't going to like this jump in power too much. It's not insta-blow but, you'll be wanting a new clutch pretty soon and the suspension has to be built up some to take this shyt as well.

Tunes don't alter pump voltage, btw, they just adjust the injector pulsewidth and firing timing to accommodate the additional oxygen in the chamber. That's how engines make power, with fuel, not air. You will need bigger injectors and a boost a pump, minimum here.
Thanks for the advice .... your knowledge is appreciated.


---------- Post added at 08:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapinator126 View Post
Back when I had my 3v it was 435 at the tires on stock motor. 40k hard miles, i sold it and got 28k for it. Still ran just as hard

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Good to know again thanks.

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Old 04-04-2014, 01:18 AM   #20
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Guys I was not trying to start a war about supercharging the 4.6 on myStang, was only trying to gather knowledege from the experts (you guys). I know there is an amount of risk involved,I just received all the parts yesterday, loking to start the assembly as soon as Uncle Sam gives me a chance LOL.
another subject; I'm presently running 20*10 in the back with 275's, how much wider could I go and still keep the tires under the fenders? Thank a lot everybody for your help on this. These forums rock! keep the Stangs strong
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Old 04-08-2014, 12:41 PM   #21
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Guys I was not trying to start a war about supercharging the 4.6 on myStang, was only trying to gather knowledege from the experts (you guys). I know there is an amount of risk involved,I just received all the parts yesterday, loking to start the assembly as soon as Uncle Sam gives me a chance LOL.
another subject; I'm presently running 20*10 in the back with 275's, how much wider could I go and still keep the tires under the fenders? Thank a lot everybody for your help on this. These forums rock! keep the Stangs strong
I have 295's on my rear tires 295/30 with 20 inch rims and they just fit.
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