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Old 07-09-2014, 12:02 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by TrackPak View Post
THEN EVERY GT MUSTANG IS MAPPED FOR 87

BECAUSE THE DEALER ALWAYS FILLS THE FIRST TANK FOR FREE WITH

( u guessed it ) 87 Octane

Very probable.


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Old 07-09-2014, 12:27 AM   #37
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Very probable.


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Dude. Then that's saying every GT will be mapped according to the ambient temp that's off the lot.

Not everyone is a dip shiit when it comes accommodating for changes in parameters.

I'm sure the engineers are able to come up with dynamic re calculations based on changing variable. 1st graders might not but I'm sure pro engineers are capable enough.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:29 AM   #38
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The 5.0 has knock sensors and can adjust itself based on the gas you put in whether it's 93 or 87, it will see the small change and accommodate for it.


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Old 07-09-2014, 07:45 AM   #39
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Yes, I have seen my past 3.7 adjust for 93 Octane over the long run, but very little difference. I have been putting 93 in my 2013 now since I have had it in March. I noticed in the 98 degree temps last month the engine had pulled timing down low and didn't have as much low grunt. It came back but still seemed missing something.

For *****s and Giggles last night after seeing this post, I pulled the battery and put it in learn mode and drove hard for 20 mins. Seems like a large change in low end by butt dyno, yes probably like 10 or less Fpbs but I noticed it. Granted also it was learning in cooler night air as well.

The 3.7V6 I had I was experimenting with tunes all the time, so it was always learning. I haven't tuned the GT yet and when I do it will be the Ford Track Key tune for Warranty reasons. I spent the cash I had saved up to repair the V6 if needed on the upgrade to the 5.0 Premium.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:50 AM   #40
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420hp 11:1 compression performance engine and ppl are asking if running 87 is fine. Lol. Yeah it'll run, mainly because Ford knows ppl are cheap asses and will run 87 even if they say you can only run 93 so they plan for that. Car de-tunes itself for 87 octane, will run optimal on 93 and that is that. If you are so concerned with paying for premium and looking at gas mileage then buy a V6 that gets 30+ and takes 87 just fine.

Ppl never cease to amaze me.
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:03 AM   #41
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Like I said in my first post...... You bought a car with 420 horsepower and high compression.

Use premium.


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Old 07-09-2014, 09:18 AM   #42
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Like I said in my first post...... You bought a car with 420 horsepower and high compression.

Use premium.


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Lol yeah I know YOU said that and a few others. But I just can't wrap my head around someone paying the $$$ for a Coyote and then putting regular in it. Like... what is the point?
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Old 07-09-2014, 09:32 AM   #43
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Lol yeah I know YOU said that and a few others. But I just can't wrap my head around someone paying the $$$ for a Coyote and then putting regular in it. Like... what is the point?

I think when people understand the significance of a 11.0:1 compression ratio and how octane affects it they will finally see why they should run as high octane as they can get.


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Old 07-09-2014, 09:33 AM   #44
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Lol $30k+ for a car but cheap out on gas.


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Old 07-09-2014, 09:49 AM   #45
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I even used premium in my 10.5:1 V6 as I wanted good gas with Techron and other cleaners in it.
I can remember when 10.5:1 in the old days needed 97+ octane and 11:1 needed SunoCo 104
I only put good tier one brand 93 in my Coyote since I have had it.
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Old 07-09-2014, 10:21 AM   #46
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Kind of an "apples and oranges" comparison here, because it gets abused more than any of your Mustangs, but I have a 5000 pound truck with an extremely high mileage (400k), high compression engine (10.5-11:1, never cc'd) that I dump, mostly, the cheapest regular fuel that I can find into. I've been doing that for 17 years, since I built the engine
That truck will still put a bus length on every Harley that has had the guts to give it a try, and a hell of a lot of other various vehicles.

I still say, for how the OP of this thread is using his car, running 87 octane will be more than adequate and that his engine will outlast a lot of you guy's who are using premium all of the time.
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Old 07-09-2014, 10:51 AM   #47
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Apparently know one has ever heard of static compression.
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Old 07-09-2014, 11:30 AM   #48
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Apparently know one has ever heard of static compression.
You had to complicate this didn't you Grabber.
That engine that I just described has been machined to address the problem that I think you're eluding to.
To run a high compression 460 on pump.gas they need to be "zero decked" to improve the "quench" that they receive on the intake stroke, thus lowering cylinder temperature. This raises the compression ratio but lowers the combustion temperature enough to more than make up for the raised CR.
The computer in that truck isn't very sophisticated, and won't back off timing, so that's how I did it.
The engine management systems of today are much more forgiving.
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:25 PM   #49
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Apparently know one has ever heard of static compression.

Your engine's static compression ratio is easily calculated if you know six measurements or volumes:
  • Bore-- The diameter of the cylinder bore
  • Stroke-- The distance the piston travels in the cylinder
  • Deck Height-- The distance between the top of the cylinder bore and the top of the piston, when the piston is at TDC (Top Dead Center, or at its highest position
  • Compressed thickness of the head gasket-- Usually 0.040", but varies with gasket manufacturer and application
  • Piston top volume-- If the piston is dished, domed, or dimpled, that has an affect on compression ratio.
  • Combustion chamber volume-- How much open space is in the head above the cylinder
The last item is what you are missing Stray Bullet?
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Old 07-09-2014, 12:27 PM   #50
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snip...
The computer in that truck isn't very sophisticated, and won't back off timing, so that's how I did it. The engine management systems of today are much more forgiving.
What is your total BTDC timing at full advance?
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:47 PM   #51
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Bear in mind, that engine was built in 97 so the specifcs are a little fuzzy now. The combustion chambers are 92-97 cc's but quite a bit of material was removed from the heads, so much that the intake manifold had to be machined down to fit the engine. The pistons are flat tops with two valve reliefs cut into them.
The timing? I can't remember what the total is but the initial is set at 15 degrees.

This engine was kinda built backwards. It's better to use smaller chambered heads but I had to have an engine that would easily pass emissions testing so that's the way that I built it.
It works very well like that and detonation is almost non-existent on 87 octane fuel except for very hot days when the engine is under extremely high loads. If I'm towing something heavy, I'll top off the fuel tanks with 91 octane and that takes care of the pinging.
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:19 PM   #52
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Bear in mind, that engine was built in 97 so the specifcs are a little fuzzy now. The combustion chambers are 92-97 cc's but quite a bit of material was removed from the heads, so much that the intake manifold had to be machined down to fit the engine. The pistons are flat tops with two valve reliefs cut into them.
The timing? I can't remember what the total is but the initial is set at 15 degrees.

This engine was kinda built backwards. It's better to use smaller chambered heads but I had to have an engine that would easily pass emissions testing so that's the way that I built it.
It works very well like that and detonation is almost non-existent on 87 octane fuel except for very hot days when the engine is under extremely high loads. If I'm towing something heavy, I'll top off the fuel tanks with 91 octane and that takes care of the pinging.
Sounds like it was well thought out those years ago Bullet, its a well built 460 it seems. About 525hpr on 10:1 compression is what the older forums are showing building like you say, are these DOVE heads? They also talk about high compression pistons making it go to 10.5:1. Sounds like your flat tops are about right for that being your decked?

Next would be cam timing effecting detonation; what you have is a well built motor perfect for such pump gas I bet, assume no towing load as you point out. Awesome motor, but as you say a Oranges to Applies, I am glad I got to hear about it anyway. I learned a few things today about the 460.
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Old 07-09-2014, 02:42 PM   #53
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Sounds like it was well thought out those years ago Bullet, its a well built 460 it seems. About 525hpr on 10:1 compression is what the older forums are showing building like you say, are these DOVE heads? They also talk about high compression pistons making it go to 10.5:1. Sounds like your flat tops are about right for that being your decked?

Next would be cam timing effecting detonation; what you have is a well built motor perfect for such pump gas I bet, assume no towing load as you point out. Awesome motor, but as you say a Oranges to Applies, I am glad I got to hear about it anyway. I learned a few things today about the 460.
No. I used the updated EFI heads. This engine is, basically, a copy of the 600hp crate 460 that Ford racing used to sell. With the DOVE heads and a solid lifter cam, it should have right around that 600 horsepower number.
It makes a, seemingly, boring truck fun to drive. I've owned it since brand new (23 years) and I never get tired of driving it.
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