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Old 09-18-2014, 10:01 AM   #1
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Cobra Jet Manifold SAFE OR RISK?

Is the CJM safe or a risk for a stock coyote engine? I'm going to put Long Tube headers and a X pipe on soon, but first I was wondering would it be safe to use it for street use? What RPMs are not safe on a stock engine? I heard a ton of people use it and havn't heard of any problems. Inform me, thanks.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:07 AM   #2
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Plenty of guys are running it without issue. Having said that if I felt I could benefit from one I'd have it but I don't think it's an upgrade for the cost over a Boss Intake.

There are two factors here to contemplate.
To really get the benefit of it you should be shifting @ 7900-8000 which is a few 1000 rpm more than the Boss Intake need. This is where oil pump gears become a must. RPM's are a killer for these motors just as much as power is. Also the fact that you have a manual transmission is a negative since the MT82 doesn't like high RPM shifts

Who do you plan on having it tuned by?
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:10 AM   #3
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Cobra Jet Manifold SAFE OR RISK?

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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
Plenty of guys are running it without issue. Having said that if I felt I could benefit from one I'd have it but I don't think it's an upgrade for the cost over a Boss Intake.

There are two factors here to contemplate.
To really get the benefit of it you should be shifting @ 7900-8000 which is a few 1000 rpm more than the Boss Intake need. This is where oil pump gears become a must. RPM's are a killer for these motors just as much as power is.

Who do you plan on having it tuned by?

Not sure, was going to get a tuned at a shop in San Antonio called "Two Ten Performance" they have many engine swaps and specialize in mustangs. (They're a mustang shop)..Any suggestions if not them for tuning? Also...I heard benefits are 4-8K. I mean.. I wouldn't really risk hitting 8K RPMs with stock internals. I would probably stop around 7.3K or whatever I would feel safe at.
EDIT: I plan on getting a MGW short throw shifter as well after the intake manifold.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:12 AM   #4
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Another slow car in the works. If you want to go fast go to lethal. two ten is good but they are far from lethal.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:15 AM   #5
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Another slow car in the works. If you want to go fast go to lethal. two ten is good but they are far from lethal.

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Lethal Performance in San Antonio, Okay.. Can you explain how they are better than two ten performance? I just want to know whats the difference. Thanks Rap. Appreciate it!
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:16 AM   #6
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Mine saw massive gains, i was outrunning fully bolted and dyno tuned bosses in my 3.31 M6 GT.
I was tuned by Shaun@AED and in my personal opinion he did a fantastic job with power and driveability.
The oil pump gears were a bit nerve racking... i typically shifted my car around 7500, but thats still quite a few more rpm than you get with the GT manifold, so the massive gains are still there.
If you have good DOT4 fluid, and remove the helper spring, i was banging gears all day long at 7500 and occasionally 7800.
I did notice a loss of low end torque. The 3.31s probably didnt help, but it was certainly gone. The car never felt like it was struggling, it wasnt like massive turbo lag, but some oomph under 3000 was gone.
Also, if you compare the cost of going max effort Boss (Boss IM, CAI, TB) to the CJ, its really only a $200-$300 difference. People just get hung up on the high up front costs of the CJ.
DO NOT pay retail for the CJ, find a Ford Racing rep ( i used steve@tasca on SVTp) and got my set up like $400 off retail.
The CJ is awesome, and far and above what a Boss IM is.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:17 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by TrevorB3 View Post
Lethal Performance in San Antonio, Okay.. Can you explain how they are better than two ten performance? I just want to know whats the difference. Thanks Rap. Appreciate it!

They are actually in schertz.
They have built my car from the ground up. Shawn is there tunner and is amazing at what he does.
Danny is the owner and as cool as they get.

If you want to be fast go to lethal.

210 is good just they leave alot on the table.



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Old 09-18-2014, 10:19 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Rapinator126 View Post
They are actually in schertz.
They have built my car from the ground up. Shawn is there tunner and is amazing at what he does.
Danny is the owner and as cool as they get.

If you want to be fast go to lethal.

210 is good just they leave alot on the table.



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Damn alright! Do they do installs as well or just strictly tuning? What tune should I go with for what I'm dealing with?

Long tubes, x pipe, cjm, cj intake, cj tb,

Car is for street purposes and occasionally the track.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:20 AM   #9
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I swear by the boss. I have yet to come across a cobra jet 5.0 than can beat me on motor.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:20 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
Plenty of guys are running it without issue. Having said that if I felt I could benefit from one I'd have it but I don't think it's an upgrade for the cost over a Boss Intake.

There are two factors here to contemplate.
To really get the benefit of it you should be shifting @ 7900-8000 which is a few 1000 rpm more than the Boss Intake need. This is where oil pump gears become a must. RPM's are a killer for these motors just as much as power is. Also the fact that you have a manual transmission is a negative since the MT82 doesn't like high RPM shifts

Who do you plan on having it tuned by?
My understanding was that the boss needs to get up to 7500 ish to he taken advantage of and the cj 8100+? Doesn't seem to be much info out there on what rpm is "safe" for a stock coyote that I've seen. I've asked that question myself. At what rpm are we seeing the oil pump hears become a problem? My a6 shifts about 7550 and haven't had any issues.... So far... Knock on wood!

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:22 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by TrevorB3 View Post
Damn alright! Do they do installs as well or just strictly tuning? What tune should I go with for what I'm dealing with?

Long tubes, x pipe, cjm, cj intake, cj tb,

Car is for street purposes and occasionally the track.
Yes they install also.
They built my motor and everything done on my car is done by them


Just bring it up there and they will take it from There.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:23 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Mine saw massive gains, i was outrunning fully bolted and dyno tuned bosses in my 3.31 M6 GT.
I was tuned by Shaun@AED and in my personal opinion he did a fantastic job with power and driveability.
The oil pump gears were a bit nerve racking... i typically shifted my car around 7500, but thats still quite a few more rpm than you get with the GT manifold, so the massive gains are still there.
If you have good DOT4 fluid, and remove the helper spring, i was banging gears all day long at 7500 and occasionally 7800.
I did notice a loss of low end torque. The 3.31s probably didnt help, but it was certainly gone. The car never felt like it was struggling, it wasnt like massive turbo lag, but some oomph under 3000 was gone.
Also, if you compare the cost of going max effort Boss (Boss IM, CAI, TB) to the CJ, its really only a $200-$300 difference. People just get hung up on the high up front costs of the CJ.
DO NOT pay retail for the CJ, find a Ford Racing rep ( i used steve@tasca on SVTp) and got my set up like $400 off retail.
The CJ is awesome, and far and above what a Boss IM is.
I think you're being generous on the comparison in costs between the Boss Intake and the CJ Intake. You can get a used Boss Intake used pretty cheap and don't even need a throttle body.

What were your track times with the CJ Intake?

And remember you removed the CJ Intake for a reason.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:27 AM   #13
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I swear by the boss. I have yet to come across a cobra jet 5.0 than can beat me on motor.
That's it in a nutshell. Lots of guys are claiming big power gains with the CJ over the Boss but no one has yet to prove it at the track which is where I like to look at the data.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:28 AM   #14
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I heard that the CJM is not so driver friendly for street use, and some people got it 'ported'. Any one care to explain what this means, how much it costs, and the advantages/disadvantages are? Thanks!
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:31 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by TrevorB3 View Post
I heard that the CJM is not so driver friendly for street use, and some people got it 'ported'. Any one care to explain what this means, how much it costs, and the advantages/disadvantages are? Thanks!
I just got off the phone with Danny. We were discussing my new setup. Surprise everyone lol.

I let him know about your car so give him a call.



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---------- Post added at 10:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
That's it in a nutshell. Lots of guys are claiming big power gains with the CJ over the Boss but no one has yet to prove it at the track which is where I like to look at the data.
I know that. I'm just going by personal experience.



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Old 09-18-2014, 10:31 AM   #16
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I just got off the phone with Danny. We were discussing my new setup. Surprise everyone lol.

I let him know about your car so give him a call.



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Sure, can you give me a number to call him directly? I'm at work right now. I would most definitely be going to him in the upcoming weeks.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:36 AM   #17
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:36 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
I think you're being generous on the comparison in costs between the Boss Intake and the CJ Intake. You can get a used Boss Intake used pretty cheap and don't even need a throttle body.

What were your track times with the CJ Intake?

And remember you removed the CJ Intake for a reason.
That is why i compared max effort, which includes IM + TB + CAI, and also said not to buy retail. My CJ was $530 brand new. I did remove it for a reason, it was more drag race oriented, and like i said, the rims and tires i bought with that money will serve me better on the road course.

My track times were also nothing special, but the car was a street car. 3.31 + CJ + lack of launching skills means it was never anything special. My first time out with the CJ i went for broke and slammed the 1-2 shift and got straight sideways... i always kinda ***** footed it after that since i never was out there to break hearts or records, i just wanted to have fun. 12.3 @ 117 was my PB (2.0 60'), but thats nothing to gloat about haha, the car was a monster in street races though... i also stopped street racing, live in GF told me i needed to grow up at some point, so the CJ also served me no purpose just driving to and from work, so that also justified selling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
That's it in a nutshell. Lots of guys are claiming big power gains with the CJ over the Boss but no one has yet to prove it at the track which is where I like to look at the data.
Plenty of people in the 10s trapping mid 120s all motor with the CJ, you're just not looking hard enough.

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Originally Posted by TrevorB3 View Post
I heard that the CJM is not so driver friendly for street use, and some people got it 'ported'. Any one care to explain what this means, how much it costs, and the advantages/disadvantages are? Thanks!
I cleaned up the casting on mine, which wasnt ugly, but left a little to be desired. I wouldnt call what i did "porting," more "smoothing," but a couple of people have actually removed material and seen more gains. I was worried about losing more torque doing that so i decided against it. The car is PLENTY streetable though, very smooth and easy on / off throttle. The only time it sucked was in the parking garage at like 5-10 mph, but even a stock TB car has issues at those speeds (in a m6 at least).

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I swear by the boss. I have yet to come across a cobra jet 5.0 than can beat me on motor.

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Correct me if i'm wrong, but you have a boss motor correct? That alone makes a HUGE difference lol but i'm sure i dont need to tell you that. I sold my CJ to my Buddy with a boss, and tuned by the same place, on the same dyno he picked up 50 whp with the CJ and E85 over his 93 Boss tune. Wish we had straight pump gas numbers, but i'd bet money MOST of that was the CJ.

He and i would run dead even on the street with identical mods: Both hard shorty headers, cat deletes, TB, CAI... The only time i would edge ahead is when i could hold a gear out longer (3.31 vs 3.73) and only end up maybe 1 car ahead from 40 - 140. The Boss motor really is a step above the GT.
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:43 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post



Correct me if i'm wrong, but you have a boss motor correct? That alone makes a HUGE difference lol but i'm sure i dont need to tell you that. I sold my CJ to my Buddy with a boss, and tuned by the same place, on the same dyno he picked up 50 whp with the CJ and E85 over his 93 Boss tune. Wish we had straight pump gas numbers, but i'd bet money MOST of that was the CJ.
.
It's a built motor. Manley rods Diamond pistond, higher compression. E85 and a few other tricks.
But yes you are right for the most part lol.


I will be swapping to the cobra jet though.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #20
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This guy lol
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:54 AM   #21
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Sure, can you give me a number to call him directly? I'm at work right now. I would most definitely be going to him in the upcoming weeks.
210-656-5220. He will be expecting your call, tell him James sent you.

My car will be back in there right after I get back from up north. Thats what me and him were setting up today. Complete 180 degree turn in our build

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:55 AM   #22
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It's a built motor. Manley rods Diamond pistond, higher compression. E85 and a few other tricks.
But yes you are right for the most part lol.


I will be swapping to the cobra jet though.

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I forgot the name of it.. but theirs a part for the CJ intake to bring the max RPMs to (7700RPM) to MAX (8000). That's highly not recommended correct, unless you have a built motor?
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:56 AM   #23
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210-656-5220. He will be expecting your call, tell him James sent you.

My car will be back in there right after I get back from up north. Thats what me and him were setting up today. Complete 180 degree turn in our build

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Forsure, I'll call him off work! How much do they charge for installs? Are they cheap or a bit pricey?
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:56 AM   #24
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I forgot the name of it.. but theirs a part for the CJ intake to bring the max RPMs to (7700RPM) to MAX (8000). That's highly not recommended correct, unless you have a built motor?
The high pulse ring? That's only for autos.

But if you want to spin to 8k you need billet oil gears.

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Old 09-18-2014, 10:57 AM   #25
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The high pulse ring? That's only for autos.

But if you want to spin to 8k you need billet oil gears.

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Alright, so nothing recommended for just a CJ intake, no forged internals or nothing special to hold it? I should be fine on stock motor?
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Old 09-18-2014, 10:57 AM   #26
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Needed to get past the hardcode limit on the Autos, its the pulse ring. Not needed on standards. Ford Racing Mustang TI-VCT High RPM Competition Pulse Ring M-12A227-CJ13 (11-14 5.0L) - Free Shipping

It also just depends on how high you want to spin it. Its not like the thing will just break your motor because its on there... I shifted at 7500 and never had problems, did the occasional 7800, did 1 8000 lol but others have consistently done 7800 on both Boss and CJ manifolds. Its all up to you.
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:01 AM   #27
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Alright, so nothing recommended for just a CJ intake, no forged internals or nothing special to hold it? I should be fine on stock motor?
Oil pump gears. And you will be ok.

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Old 09-18-2014, 11:05 AM   #28
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Oil pump gears. And you will be ok.

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ID:	166378 That? And can I use the CJM without that for like 2 weeks or does it need it ASAP?
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:07 AM   #29
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No this

http://www.jpcracing.com/tss-5-0-billet-oil-pump-gears/


You can, just depends on if your going to be spinning to 8k on a daily basis

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Old 09-18-2014, 11:45 AM   #30
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I forgot the name of it.. but theirs a part for the CJ intake to bring the max RPMs to (7700RPM) to MAX (8000). That's highly not recommended correct, unless you have a built motor?
FRPP High RPM Pulse Ring
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Old 09-18-2014, 11:47 AM   #31
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210-656-5220. tell him James sent you.

Did we just find our Rapinator's name? Lol



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Old 09-18-2014, 12:00 PM   #32
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I think we did.
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Old 09-18-2014, 12:09 PM   #33
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The high pulse ring is only needed for a auto.



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Old 09-19-2014, 03:47 PM   #34
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Here is a good read comparing all the different manifolds. Notice the Cobra Jet gains over the Boss Intake were really minimal.
JPC Racing Compares all Three Ford Intake Manifolds for the Coyote 5.0L Engine | NMRA
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Old 09-19-2014, 04:52 PM   #35
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The high pulse ring is only needed for a auto.



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Should I get the Ford Racing Boss 302 Valve Springs as well?
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