Adjustable or non adjustable LCAs???? - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 11-28-2014, 08:09 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eric5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kerper
Region: Florida
Posts: 328
Adjustable or non adjustable LCAs????

AM has a sale on the adjustable SR performance LCAs and I'm looking into buying a set since I just got my SR springs in but wasn't sure if it's necessary or if there was any point in getting the adjustable over the non adjustable control arms so if someone could clear this up for me Id appreciate it.


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Eric5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-28-2014, 08:15 PM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
WhiteCali5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Beckley
Region: West Virgina
Posts: 1,396
Go for non adjustable man. Only go for adjustable uppers. No need to adjust the lowers. I didn't know either and hey had the eibach adjustable loweres on sale before and I got those. Then I was informed I didn't need adjustable ones so I sold them and got the bmr hammer tones. I think they're cheaper anyway n proven reliable. Don't forget relocation brackets


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
WhiteCali5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 08:21 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eric5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kerper
Region: Florida
Posts: 328
Relocation brackets are a must? Im not too great at suspension I'm still learning as you can tell lol


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Eric5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-28-2014, 08:54 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
WhiteCali5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Beckley
Region: West Virgina
Posts: 1,396
They were recommended to me by some guys on here that've done suspension stuff for a while. I think if you're lowered they should be put on there but make sure as I don't know 100% yes or no


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
WhiteCali5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 08:58 PM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eric5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kerper
Region: Florida
Posts: 328
Thanksc


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Eric5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:30 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
I think if you do relocation brackets you should have adjustable lowers. Reason is that not all brackets line up perfectly and the length between stock location and brackets is a little different. The lower adjustable will allow you to adjust your front to back geometry of the rear axle assuring a straight rear axle.

Why are you replacing lower control arms to begin with?
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:31 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
WhiteCali5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Beckley
Region: West Virgina
Posts: 1,396
I was told to buy relocation brackets but not adjustable lowers. That's what everyone told me. Seems to work fine


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
WhiteCali5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:40 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCali5oh View Post
I was told to buy relocation brackets but not adjustable lowers. That's what everyone told me. Seems to work fine


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
Why did you buy relocation brackets?
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 09:43 PM   #9
Registered Member
Regular
 
DallasStang77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas
Region: Texas
Posts: 1,842
The perfect alignment of the LCA is parallel to the ground with the suspension fully loaded.

If the drop is less than 2" then the level of the LCA may not be perfectly parallel.

I have a 2" drop and the non-adjustables were a perfect fit on the FRPP reloc bracket in the middle hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
DallasStang77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:10 PM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eric5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kerper
Region: Florida
Posts: 328
So I can buy non adjustable without getting the relocation brackets?


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI

---------- Post added at 11:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:09 PM ----------

And why not get better LCAs? They seem to be rather inexpensive.


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Eric5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:10 PM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStang77 View Post
The perfect alignment of the LCA is parallel to the ground with the suspension fully loaded.

If the drop is less than 2" then the level of the LCA may not be perfectly parallel.

I have a 2" drop and the non-adjustables were a perfect fit on the FRPP reloc bracket in the middle hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
Did it move your rear axle at all?
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 10:12 PM   #12
Registered Member
Regular
 
WhiteCali5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Beckley
Region: West Virgina
Posts: 1,396
Bmr is very good. I paid 189$


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
WhiteCali5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2014, 11:28 PM   #13
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,705
As was mentioned by BJ, when you lower the car 2" or more you change the angle of the pinion as well as the distance between the front lower mount and the rear lower mount of your lower control arm, it may only be 1/4", but it still changes it.
Look at it this way, draw two arcs, one through the center of the stock location lower arm at the front and at the rear..........now lower the suspension 2" and see where the front and rear lower mount is on the arc..........I can guarantee they will not be in the same location, as will your pinion angle.
I will be relocating my lower control arms (as I did on my 97 Cobra) and although I'm not sure where the pinion angle will be I will most likely also install the Whiteline upper and lower adjustable control arms, the same reason I installed the Whiteline adjustable panhard bar. Setup from the factory the 13/14 Mustangs come off the line with a bias (rear axle 1/4" or more) to the drivers side. To get it centered is essential for autocross or serious corner carving (not so much for street duty) and mine is now dead center after adjusting it after putting the Sportline springs in and letting them settle after 300 miles of driving...............IMHO
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 01:06 AM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
As was mentioned by BJ, when you lower the car 2" or more you change the angle of the pinion as well as the distance between the front lower mount and the rear lower mount of your lower control arm, it may only be 1/4", but it still changes it.
Look at it this way, draw two arcs, one through the center of the stock location lower arm at the front and at the rear..........now lower the suspension 2" and see where the front and rear lower mount is on the arc..........I can guarantee they will not be in the same location, as will your pinion angle.
I will be relocating my lower control arms (as I did on my 97 Cobra) and although I'm not sure where the pinion angle will be I will most likely also install the Whiteline upper and lower adjustable control arms, the same reason I installed the Whiteline adjustable panhard bar. Setup from the factory the 13/14 Mustangs come off the line with a bias (rear axle 1/4" or more) to the drivers side. To get it centered is essential for autocross or serious corner carving (not so much for street duty) and mine is now dead center after adjusting it after putting the Sportline springs in and letting them settle after 300 miles of driving...............IMHO
Yeah I understand. I was just wondering why guys made the changes. Was it because of necessity or because someone said you have to do this. My experience setting up solid axle cars has shown me to make adjustments one at a time and because it needs to be addressed. If you want your mustang to handle well the first order is throw out the panhard and put in an adjustable watts link. From there you can start to make changes as necessary. You may find that after the watts that lca's or relocation brackets are not necessary. If you do need to address lca's putting in non adjustable lowers takes away the ability to square up your rear axle or make subtle changes in rear end geometry. My idea is to set up the car by how it feels and reacts to me and my driving style. Throwing a bunch of parts on just because just isn't a good way to go at it.IMHO. Definitely not taking a shot at you hope it didn't come off like that I'm and old school guy too with a few laps around the track.
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 11:40 AM   #15
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJay View Post
Yeah I understand. I was just wondering why guys made the changes. Was it because of necessity or because someone said you have to do this. My experience setting up solid axle cars has shown me to make adjustments one at a time and because it needs to be addressed. If you want your mustang to handle well the first order is throw out the panhard and put in an adjustable watts link. From there you can start to make changes as necessary. You may find that after the watts that lca's or relocation brackets are not necessary. If you do need to address lca's putting in non adjustable lowers takes away the ability to square up your rear axle or make subtle changes in rear end geometry. My idea is to set up the car by how it feels and reacts to me and my driving style. Throwing a bunch of parts on just because just isn't a good way to go at it.IMHO. Definitely not taking a shot at you hope it didn't come off like that I'm and old school guy too with a few laps around the track.
I certainly agree about changing one thing at a time, (and no offense taken, everyone goes about tackling suspension setups differently, if not it would be a pretty boring world),if you don't you could produce some unwanted characteristics and spend a lot of time chancing your tail.
The one thing my 2014 has is wheel hop, and it can be severe in first and second gears,(another reason I want to deep six the two piece drive shaft). One way to eliminate this (an old drag racers trick from some 40 years ago) is to change the pinion angle(increase the pinion angle), and one way to do that is to relocate the lower control arms.
20 years ago when I got my 97 Mustang Cobra and did a number of mods to produce more HP/TQ, in first and second gear you could slid the car sideways under hard acceleration and if you shifted at WOT the rearend would try and meet the front. After relocating the lower control arms further under the axle (increasing the pinion angle) the car would just squat and go dead straight even under WOT.
When building hot rods (pre 1950) a lot of guys use the Land Rover Watts setup, it's cheap and easily adapted to early cars. I will agree that a Watts set up is better than a Panhard setup, but I'm just not willing to spend that kind of money. As you said, you want to set the car up for your driving style, and with the money I'd spend on the Watts I can setup the complete rear suspension for my driving style. When I first looked at Watts for the 14 I really liked the Whiteline, it is most like the Land Rover style and a little cheaper than the others, although the ultra fine adjustments are not there, it really looks nice and doesn't hang down very far, using the stock panhard mounting for the rods.
I love suspension work and the rewards that follow.
Back in the day I started with a Kenny Brown panhard bar and lower control arm brackets.................he and I went around and around because of the mounting on the 97, I had to reinforce the trunk tire well, and he kept telling me I was adjusting it wrong. That was 20 years ago..............and I still hold "A warm spot in my heart for him".
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 12:29 PM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
DallasStang77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas
Region: Texas
Posts: 1,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJay View Post
Did it move your rear axle at all?

Yes the drop shifted the rear. Had to readjust it with the adjustable panhard bar.

Other than that the relocation bracket perfectly aligned the LCA parallel to the ground on the middle hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
DallasStang77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 12:35 PM   #17
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStang77 View Post
Yes the drop shifted the rear. Had to readjust it with the adjustable panhard bar.

Other than that the relocation bracket perfectly aligned the LCA parallel to the ground on the middle hole.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
Have you checked the pinion angle?
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 01:05 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
My thinking may be off but relocation brackets can push or pull the rear axle forward or push it back depending on location changing overall wheel base length and changing pinon angle. Why I like adjustable lowers with the relocation brackets is you can correct for this along with being able to square the rear axle. If your gonna spend the money you should have the adjust-ability to correct. I know I'm spitting hairs but that's how I see it.

I'm still wondering why the stuff was installed (relocation brackets, solid control arms) not trying to be a dick just curious.
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 01:32 PM   #19
Registered Member
Regular
 
DallasStang77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas
Region: Texas
Posts: 1,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Have you checked the pinion angle?

I read before I eventually installed the UCA that the stock 2 piece drive shaft is very tolerant of varying drive line angles and many people on various forums have run a stock UCA with up to 2" drop without chatter. I can't remember what the measurement was but I was told it wasn't far off spec.

My mechanic friend explained to me that although it's recommended to make the adjustments to your car it's not absolutely necessary. He affirmed that just suspension travel on bumps and dips or carrying a full load of people and some cargo would effectively lower the car 1-1.5" and if the drive line was unable to withstand the off angle there would be a lot of warranty work on these cars through the years. So Ford's design is tolerant of pinion angle being off.

When I had a shop swap out the axle gears just recently like a month and a half ago I asked them specifically if the rear differential looked ok or were there signs of damage. They told me the stock gear looked fine and there were no leaks despite driving on the stock UCA for over a year and some change.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
DallasStang77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 04:53 PM   #20
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStang77 View Post
I read before I eventually installed the UCA that the stock 2 piece drive shaft is very tolerant of varying drive line angles and many people on various forums have run a stock UCA with up to 2" drop without chatter. I can't remember what the measurement was but I was told it wasn't far off spec.

My mechanic friend explained to me that although it's recommended to make the adjustments to your car it's not absolutely necessary. He affirmed that just suspension travel on bumps and dips or carrying a full load of people and some cargo would effectively lower the car 1-1.5" and if the drive line was unable to withstand the off angle there would be a lot of warranty work on these cars through the years. So Ford's design is tolerant of pinion angle being off.

When I had a shop swap out the axle gears just recently like a month and a half ago I asked them specifically if the rear differential looked ok or were there signs of damage. They told me the stock gear looked fine and there were no leaks despite driving on the stock UCA for over a year and some change.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
It was just a question. I think the Ford spec is like 2.7 degrees down angle at the trans yoke, and 2.6 degrees up angle at the pinion
The one thing to keep in mind (as I've built cars from scratch) is that the trans yoke should be a down angle (negative) and the pinion should be an up angle (positive), and as long as they closely match each other you should be fine. I've always looked at 3 degrees negative at the trans yoke and 3 degrees positive at the pinion as being a good starting point. This is just something to keep in mind. Also, if the driveshaft was to be angled to the left or right really doesn't hurt, as long as it's within spec of the U joint. If you were to have 3 degrees negative at the trans yoke and say 7 degrees positive on the pinion I doubt you would see any wear on the ring and pinion gears, but the possibility of pinion bearing failure and or U joint failure over a period of time would be inevitable especially if a lot of HP/TQ is applied like a WOT burnout or launch.
I have heard some of my drag buddies say the two piece Mustang driveline leaves a lot to be desired when you reach 500RWHP, and most of these guys have switched to a one piece driveline. I have never used a two piece driveline, but would think they would be weaker than a one piece driveline. But if you are not making 500+RWHP it should matter..........although at some point I will go with a one piece as I don't care for the two piece design.
Just one more piece of the puzzle and something good to know when you start changing suspension pieces.............IMHO
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 07:40 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
hobo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Raleigh
Region: North Carolina
Posts: 142
FWIW, I have the FRPP handling kit on my 2013 GT with Track Package. Love my new Pilot Sports over stock P-Zero tires, but I wanted to increase traction even more in the rear so I got the BMR aluminum box "street" LCAs with poly bushings & relocation brackets. Used the middle hole in those. This moved the slightly higher-in-rear LCA angle to slightly lower in rear. I had the rear of the car on ramps, chocked the tires and the BMR LCAs fit perfectly in place of the stock units. When the dealer replaces my ring and pinion this week, they'll install my non-adjustable BMR upper control arm (in red, so I'll remember to lube it) and BMR bracket (has two holes). The Mustang has the ability to auto-adjust for slight pinion angles via the CV joint in the shaft.

Hope this helps someone who might have a similar setup -- no adjustments were needed, no adjustable arms used.
hobo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2014, 11:57 PM   #22
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eric5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kerper
Region: Florida
Posts: 328
Is it necessary to get LCA with a 1.5' drop? Strictly daily driver/no track use what so ever


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Eric5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2014, 04:40 AM   #23
Registered Member
Regular
 
hobo1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Raleigh
Region: North Carolina
Posts: 142
From my experience and what I've read, no, not at all. The FRPP drop (1.25") didn't impact anything on mine for over two years - not even front tire wear pattern. My main reason for swapping was to help with squeaking, but it was the panhard bar. The second reason was to "upgrade" for improved traction on hard launches.
Also, BMR and others will tell you you're reducing unsprung weight, but by the time you add relocation brackets to improve the angle for a dropped Mustang, you're heavier than stock. I found the stock take-offs to be plenty strong (very heavy steel with a fold on each edge) and the rubber in good shape with a design to help absorb minor lateral forces -- something I don't expect the BMRs with poly bushing to support. But that's part of firming it all up for what some feel is a better ride. From what I "hear" that means more vehicle noises will be transferred inside the vehicle. With only a couple drives so far, can't say it's any louder, but I do feel what I'd describe as a one-piece rear now. The axle isn't as "live" as it was.
hobo1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2014, 09:56 AM   #24
Registered Member
Regular
 
Eric5oh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Kerper
Region: Florida
Posts: 328
Thank you because I didn't think there was any reason I absolutely had to get them and Im aware I would be getting better launches although the stock system is fine for what I'm doing


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Eric5oh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2014, 10:10 AM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric5oh View Post
Thank you because I didn't think there was any reason I absolutely had to get them and Im aware I would be getting better launches although the stock system is fine for what I'm doing


2013 Sterling Grey GT/Brembo package/upper and lower Billet grill/SR/J&M adjustable panhard bar/Roush axel back/AEM CAI
Your on the right track now! Change them if your driving style requires it.
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SR rear control arms Adjustable & Non-Adjustable mooseruler Mustang DIY and Technical 10 12-17-2014 09:27 PM
Adjustable and non adjustable rear control arms? mooseruler 2011-2014 Mustang GT 3 11-19-2014 06:51 AM
bmr relocation brackets and non-adj lcas? fastJ 2011-2014 Mustang GT 15 06-13-2014 10:27 AM
Wanted: '11+ Adjustable UCA/LCAs WhoDat Mustang Parts for Sale and Wanted 0 02-12-2014 06:37 PM
For Sale: Foxbody 87-93 non adjustable clutxh cable 351stroker Mustang Parts for Sale and Wanted 2 09-11-2013 11:19 PM

» Like Us On Facebook



07:03 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.