Detailed suspension question (parts/install) - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 12-02-2014, 04:56 PM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Albuquerque
Region: New Mexico
Posts: 134
Detailed suspension question (parts/install)

Hello all, been reading a couple months since I bought my first Mustang but now it's time to ask a question before I click "checkout". All help is appreciated and thank you in advance.

I am working on a 14 GT with Brimbos, if that makes any difference. Doing a ton of suspension mods. Listed below:

SR Performance Double Adjustable Panhard Bar
BMR Rear Upper Control Arm Mount
BMR Adjustable Rear Upper Control Arm
BMR Rear Lower Control Arm Relocation Brackets
BMR Rear Lower Control Arms
Eibach Adjustable Anti-Roll Sway Bar Kit (Needed? Better than stock GT?)
Eibach Sportline Spring Kit Eibach Pro (2" drop)
Eibach Alignment Camber Adjustment Bolts
BMR Front Lower Control A-Arms - Extended Ball Joint (Needed? Better than stock GT?)

So the question is...

While I have done extensive work on my previous vehicle (put turbo on my 02 Impala and more) I have never had a Mustang before this one.
1. How does the list look? I am hoping to stick to the road.
2. What order of installation would be the most efficient?
3. Also, where do I source the information for the proper axle/diff angles once all the rear suspension is done?
4. The UCA is adj., do the 2 BCA's need to be also or will the fixed bottom be corrected between the relocation brackets and UCA being adj?
5. Lastly, Are the front UC A-Arms worth the $500 price?

While I am not afraid to invest I am not rich and do use a cost/benefit ratio before purchase. Please advise.

Again thanks.
Slim
slimguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-02-2014, 05:33 PM   #2
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
List looks fairly good. What i would recommend is doing sway bars last. Those you only need to correct minor understeer or oversteer issues if you have them. That you will only notice a difference when you really push your car to the max in corners. As for specific brands, you did well looking into BMR, one thing i would say is ditch the first item being SR, change that out for BMR. Plus you won't need a double adjustable panhard bar, if you are serious in corners then you want to get rid of the panhard bar all together and go with a watts link.

For the order to go with i would start with the rear control arms, upper and lower with the mounts and brackets. Then move onto the Watts Link, after that a set of lowering springs, or coilovers if you really want to go with a nice set up. Along with the springs or coilovers go with a set of caster/camber plates, skip the bolts entirely, they are junk. Then at this point when you have everything set up and dialed in get the adjustable sway bars, and tune those in for your understeer/oversteer.

For the front control arms you generally combine those with a tubular K member.

Upper control arm needs to be adjustable. Lowers do not need to be adjustable. Hell you could ditch the upper control arm all together and go with a torque arm if you want.


Remember you can have all the suspension in the world, but tires can make or break it for how it handles as well as how it brakes.


BMR is a good brand, but is a bit drag racing oriented. If you are going for corners look into brands such as Griggs Racing and Cortex.
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 05:46 PM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
DallasStang77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas
Region: Texas
Posts: 1,842
Detailed suspension question (parts/install)

Replace the panhard bar with a watts link.

Also, for cornering some negative camber is good and even without camber plates my fronts were at -1.9 and -1.8 with no uneven tire wear. Of course having CC plates is better than not in case you want to go less aggressive on the negative camber.

Also, I would go ahead and put the sway bars in. I'm still on the stock sway bars and they have too much body roll in the turns. Look into Steeda for the sway bars they have a special design that is more rigid than other companies that have stamped ends.

Doesn't look like you're gonna power mod the car yet so I would go aftermarket rims and tires for added traction. Staggered with 255 or 265 up front and 295 or 305 on the back. Make sure you have adequate width rims else it will be worse traction than going smaller tires. 10.5" on a 295 and an 11" for a 305. You can fit up to 325 but you will need at least an 11.5-12" rim. It'll be tight but if you stick with a +50-52mm offset it should clear the fenders. Stock power levels stay 285-295. 305 will be heavy and take away from acceleration.

Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
DallasStang77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-02-2014, 05:55 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
DallasStang77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Dallas
Region: Texas
Posts: 1,842
Detailed suspension question (parts/install)

Don't do camber bolts
DallasStang77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 06:07 PM   #5
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasStang77 View Post
Also, I would go ahead and put the sway bars in. I'm still on the stock sway bars and they have too much body roll in the turns. Look into Steeda for the sway bars they have a special design that is more rigid than other companies that have stamped ends.
Sway bars don't really affect body roll too much. They do a bit, but what a majority of racers use them for is adjusting their oversteer/understeer issues. A stiffer sway bar in the rear will create more oversteer (which reduces understeer) and vice versa for the front sway bars. If your car is dipping in turns the biggest factor that will help that is your spring rate.

Also, a staggered set up induces understeer, so that definitely has to be kept in mind to the type of driving you do. If it is Autocross or mountain driving a square set up is preferred. For a road course you can get away with a bit wider in back. I wouldn't go any more than a 20-30mm difference.
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 06:20 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
I see this a lot where guys buy all this stuff at once and I always ask why are you buying each piece? Not being a hard *** but you should work in a piece at a time not all at once or you may never know what has helped, what hasn't, and what is causing handling issues.

I would start with adjustable struts and shocks with your springs. Koni among other brands. Next install an adjustable watts link like fays2 .

Now drive the car and make some adjustments on your struts and shocks and dial it in to the way you like it to feel.

Next address the most glaring issue that you feel needs addressing. If you do this you will learn loads about your car and you won't buy anything that you don't need.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 06:40 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
I forgot do add camber caster plates are a good idea with the new springs and struts.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 07:12 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
14mustang v6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: dallas tx
Region: Texas
Posts: 539
Here is my suspension setup I'm going to get all for $1500 after code and it is one of those do it right the first time mods..

airaid cai, bbk tb, bbk shortys, Ford cut/clamp, magnaflow comp catback. bama tunes, 3.73s,
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1417569123755.jpg
Views:	85
Size:	49.8 KB
ID:	170789   Click image for larger version

Name:	1417569133982.jpg
Views:	91
Size:	43.6 KB
ID:	170790  

Click image for larger version

Name:	1417569144300.jpg
Views:	90
Size:	52.6 KB
ID:	170791  
__________________
2014 v6 blacked out.. the only way to do it. Airaid cai, bbk tb, 93htune, 3.73 gears, and magnaflow competition exhaust
14mustang v6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 07:14 PM   #9
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
Just sayin.......

Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByMustang Evolution1417569268.757657.jpg
Views:	121
Size:	480.5 KB
ID:	170792


Bullitts are better than Bullets
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 07:45 PM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
^^^^I think we are preaching to the choir.
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 08:03 PM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Ya know...the watts link could be the single most overlooked piece of the pie. The watts absolutely changes the car into a different animal. I mean heck if your going to do things right the first time you better put one in your cart and drop the extra coin on the koni sports for the adjust-ability. Leave all the other stuff and see if you need it. The next step in tuning after the watts and struts springs will be adjustable sways front and rear. Control arms would be last in my book.
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 08:24 PM   #12
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
The Watts Link i really want isn't even in production right now. Still the testing phase, but its been performing very well (the one in the picture). There are more options for the S197 though.
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 08:48 PM   #13
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
The Watts Link i really want isn't even in production right now. Still the testing phase, but its been performing very well (the one in the picture). There are more options for the S197 though.
That's a cool set up. Being able to adjust roll center is a must.
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 03:55 PM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Albuquerque
Region: New Mexico
Posts: 134
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
List looks fairly good. What i would recommend is doing sway bars last. Those you only need to correct minor understeer or oversteer issues if you have them. That you will only notice a difference when you really push your car to the max in corners. As for specific brands, you did well looking into BMR, one thing i would say is ditch the first item being SR, change that out for BMR. Plus you won't need a double adjustable panhard bar, if you are serious in corners then you want to get rid of the panhard bar all together and go with a watts link.

For the order to go with i would start with the rear control arms, upper and lower with the mounts and brackets. Then move onto the Watts Link, after that a set of lowering springs, or coilovers if you really want to go with a nice set up. Along with the springs or coilovers go with a set of caster/camber plates, skip the bolts entirely, they are junk. Then at this point when you have everything set up and dialed in get the adjustable sway bars, and tune those in for your understeer/oversteer.

For the front control arms you generally combine those with a tubular K member.

Upper control arm needs to be adjustable. Lowers do not need to be adjustable. Hell you could ditch the upper control arm all together and go with a torque arm if you want.


Remember you can have all the suspension in the world, but tires can make or break it for how it handles as well as how it brakes.


BMR is a good brand, but is a bit drag racing oriented. If you are going for corners look into brands such as Griggs Racing and Cortex.

So first, thank you guys. I didn't even know some of those parts existed as I had done all the work on FWD vehicles previously. That Watts Link looks amazing but at almost a grand, I guess I'm not that serious. I have 2K and I would like to include a 90mm TB in anticipation of a ProCharger in a couple years.
Next, y'all answered most of my questions but one still exists. Where do I source the information for the proper axle/diff angles once all the rear suspension is done?
slimguns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 03:59 PM   #15
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by slimguns View Post
So first, thank you guys. I didn't even know some of those parts existed as I had done all the work on FWD vehicles previously. That Watts Link looks amazing but at almost a grand, I guess I'm not that serious. I have 2K and I would like to include a 90mm TB in anticipation of a ProCharger in a couple years.
Next, y'all answered most of my questions but one still exists. Where do I source the information for the proper axle/diff angles once all the rear suspension is done?
There aren't really many angles that can be adjusted. Since it is a solid axle the only thing that can be adjusted is the pinion angle for how the driveshaft aims from the transmission to the rear end. Other than that there is a reason its called a "solid" axle.
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 04:05 PM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
It's been my experience that it will be fine with the drop you are doing. Do the drop and see how it feels. Address as necessary.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 04:16 PM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
Compstall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Region: Washington
Posts: 1,162
What is the proper angle?

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Mustang Evolution mobile app
__________________
- Brent
'11 GT Kona Blue Brembo
"Measure with micrometers, mark with a scribe, chop with an axe"
"I'm not new to driving. I've been doing it for a couple of years now." - Aphex
Compstall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 04:42 PM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Depends on aplication street -1.5 to -2 and a bit more for drag racing etc. If I remember correctly.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:03 PM   #19
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,707
Factory spec on the 13/14 5.0l driveline is 2.7 degrees down (Negative) at the transmission tailshaft and 2.6 degrees up (Positive) at the pinion. I got this from the Ford tech when I took my car in to check the alignment after I put the Sportline springs in. Mine were within spec so I didn't worry.
No need to worry as long as one is negative and one is positive.
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:24 PM   #20
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
Generally the actual angle doesn't matter too much but you want the angle from the tranny to match the angle to the diff, like what olerodder was getting at.

Since your car has a two piece driveshaft that does compensate for the angle a bit since it can flex. Once you get a one piece is when you are going to really need to make sure the angle is good by adjusting your UCA.
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:41 PM   #21
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Measure driveline angle measure pinion angle and subtract the two numbers

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 05:58 PM   #22
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJay View Post
Measure driveline angle measure pinion angle and subtract the two numbers

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
Just a question, not being a smart ***, why do you subtract the numbers..............maybe I'm just being dense today.
So if I used the factory spec at -2.7 and + 2.6 and subtracted them, that would give me -0.1 degrees..................
Thanks,
John
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:03 PM   #23
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Just a question, not being a smart ***, why do you subtract the numbers..............maybe I'm just being dense today.
So if I used the factory spec at -2.7 and + 2.6 and subtracted them, that would give me -0.1 degrees..................
Thanks,
John

That's the point. The number you calculated is the difference between the angles. You want the difference to be as close to 0 as possible, which means the angle is completely direct.


Bullitts are better than Bullets
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:27 PM   #24
Registered Member

Regular
 
olerodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Corvallis
Region: Oregon
Posts: 2,707
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
That's the point. The number you calculated is the difference between the angles. You want the difference to be as close to 0 as possible, which means the angle is completely direct.


Bullitts are better than Bullets
Ok, I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right and I understand where you are coming from.
A U joint is usually spec'd for min/max angular run-out, and having 0 degree difference is ok, although it's not really needed to have the U joint perform its job............IMHO
On my race car (drag race suspension which is setup different than street/road racing, etc.) I ran -1 at the trans and +3 at the pinion.............never had any issues and ran 1.301 sec 60' times.
I've setup a few hotrods with various rearends from 9" to Halibrand quick change and have always shot for -3/+3. Of course most of the cars I built had carburetors, not fuel injection, so the angle of the carb at the intake was the issue that drove the angle of the transmission shaft. With fuel injection it isn't as critical.
Again, I'm not being argumentative, just giving you my opinon
olerodder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 06:54 PM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
Compstall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Tacoma, WA
Region: Washington
Posts: 1,162
Much more helpful olerodder, thanks for the input.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Mustang Evolution mobile app
__________________
- Brent
'11 GT Kona Blue Brembo
"Measure with micrometers, mark with a scribe, chop with an axe"
"I'm not new to driving. I've been doing it for a couple of years now." - Aphex
Compstall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 07:07 PM   #26
ME Bloodhound
Staff
 
Soccerluvr4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Sacramento/Bay Area
Region: California
Posts: 14,672
I think its one of those "there are different ways to skin a cat" times. Based on overall set up of the entire car can affect how you set up the angle.
__________________

Bullitt build paused pending graduation

HID end all thread
Soccerluvr4 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 03:36 PM   #27
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Hey guys talked with Sam strano about pinion angle. He will only change pinion angle if there is a driveline vibration. If he sold you an adjustable upper control arm he would tell you to mimic the stock angle and drive the car. If you have vibration make a small change and drive again. Repeat if necessary. The specs we see are a starting point and the leway is for adjustment if a vibrating is an issue. With my steeda sports I'm around -1.5 and no vibration.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2014, 03:46 PM   #28
Registered Member
Regular
 
BigJay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Seattle
Region: Washington
Posts: 414
Also talked with steeda and they have had no problems with pinion angle on the mild drops. They like -1.5 to -2.0 but it's all relative depending how one measures. Going by feel makes good sense to me and is easy.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Mustang Evolution mobile app
BigJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What do you think would win in a race, more detailed question.? Waldemar 1979-1995 Mustang GT 5 12-12-2011 06:03 AM
Detailed the car yesterday Danger Dude The Bar 17 09-25-2006 11:31 AM
detailed my car meteorachick Pictures and Videos 20 04-04-2006 12:07 AM
Been a while so I detailed the truck and had some fun sonic04edge Pictures and Videos 21 08-18-2005 01:53 PM
Detailed the car and took some pics. mohrnormal Pictures and Videos 11 04-24-2005 12:21 PM

» Like Us On Facebook



07:22 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.