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Old 02-13-2015, 08:08 PM   #1
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How can you make our A6 fun to drive

I'm currently tuned from Lund and MPT. Besides that just a Steeda CAI, and stock 3:15 gears. Well its super sluggish down low, unless I floor it. Even then, sometimes, it doesn't give an impression that I'm driving a 420 HP car. My tunes are maxed out, and I'm told they cannot increase pedal response (how quickly throttle opens up) any further. Honestly, its making me hate my car since I have driven manuals all my life.. It shifts when I doesn't want it to loll but yeah jokes aside, I have a few questions:

1) I have heard mixed opinions on gears - both on internet and from local performance shops. Some say its a waste of money, your car would just be shifting too soon. While others say they will put you into your power band quick, and you will enjoy normal city driving. I know 3.7 auto community swears by 3.73 gears, but no so much the 5.0 world. Umm help! Lol

2) I have looked into getting a 4C converter too, but its getting too pricey. $1500 CAD plus another 4-500 for install. $2k out of the door. Expensive mod none the less.

3) I even looked into a full T56 swap: about $8500 CAD parts and labor. Negates the whole point, might as well go FI at this price point.

4) sadly no manual 5.0s are available in my area - as in 13-14 coupes with low mileage. So many darn verts! Even if I find one, negative equity on my car will chew it right off

5) I have JMS pedalmax (with adjustable knob) in mail right now. Hopefully it will solve some of the low end grunt issues I have.

All you good felahs, help a brother out
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Old 02-13-2015, 08:47 PM   #2
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I've said it a million times already but the autos need a converter. They already have plenty of gearing so it would be of no benefit to change them. If you're not willing to spend the money for a converter then you'll have to live with it.
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Old 02-13-2015, 10:00 PM   #3
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I went vmp supercharger route. I also have 3.15s and they're awesome to have in a car w a blower. Also gonna be adding a torque converter this summer maybe. Just to help get there even quicker


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Old 02-14-2015, 12:07 AM   #4
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You're absolutely right about the converter, no doubts about that. I have messaged Chris from Circle D to see if there is a provision to get non-billet version of their 4C. I was told by local performance shops and also read a thread from JPC racing that you don't really need a billet version unless you're pushing 1000+HP. I mean yeah it wouldn't hurt to go billet, but its not an absolute necessity.

Let's hope something can be worked out.

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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
I've said it a million times already but the autos need a converter. They already have plenty of gearing so it would be of no benefit to change them. If you're not willing to spend the money for a converter then you'll have to live with it.



I have looked into supercharger route too; however, with current ****ty exchange range, I'm starring at $8K just for the kit + $2k for instal and tuning if I got it done in states (Seattle). Bringing it back to Canada means paying 12% to fawkin savages at the border. But yeah who knows what future is going to hold, svtp usually has used s/c kits popping up in excellent condition for about $4k. I might just pounce on that lol story of
a broke student

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Originally Posted by WhiteCali5oh View Post
I went vmp supercharger route. I also have 3.15s and they're awesome to have in a car w a blower. Also gonna be adding a torque converter this summer maybe. Just to help get there even quicker


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Old 02-14-2015, 08:25 AM   #5
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The select shift feature (13/14) is great. Yes, I love manuals, but this auto is fun to drive imo.
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Old 02-14-2015, 09:18 AM   #6
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I don't have a tune and I love to drive my car.. Sorry to hear you aren't having fun with it.
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Old 02-14-2015, 01:04 PM   #7
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It is fun in select shift no doubt, maybe I'm just being super picky and trying to get the feeling of rowing through gears lol. The only grudge is throttle response when I'm soft on pedal. But as grabber said, seems like a 4C is going to be my only solution. Sucks no other manufacturer has come up with a torque converter yet.
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Old 02-14-2015, 02:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
You're absolutely right about the converter, no doubts about that. I have messaged Chris from Circle D to see if there is a provision to get non-billet version of their 4C. I was told by local performance shops and also read a thread from JPC racing that you don't really need a billet version unless you're pushing 1000+HP. I mean yeah it wouldn't hurt to go billet, but its not an absolute necessity.

Let's hope something can be worked out.






I have looked into supercharger route too; however, with current ****ty exchange range, I'm starring at $8K just for the kit + $2k for instal and tuning if I got it done in states (Seattle). Bringing it back to Canada means paying 12% to fawkin savages at the border. But yeah who knows what future is going to hold, svtp usually has used s/c kits popping up in excellent condition for about $4k. I might just pounce on that lol story of
a broke student

Good god 8k? I paid 6700 TOTAL for my complete kit man. Ask for discounts lol.


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Old 02-14-2015, 02:58 PM   #9
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Gears will give you more pep down low. A converter will put you in your powerband quicker. Honestly after test driving the 5.0s I had the same comment. Does this car really have 420 hp? After the test drive I looked at a dyno graph and down low the hp is pathetic. There are things you can do it make it better but at the end of the day the nature of the engine is that it needs to rev to make power.


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Old 02-14-2015, 03:07 PM   #10
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Gears will give you more pep down low.
Gears will do nothing. Please do not start going down this slippery slope of which you will not recover.
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteCali5oh View Post
Good god 8k? I paid 6700 TOTAL for my complete kit man. Ask for discounts lol.


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Bro $8k Canadian lol darn exchange rate since oil fiasco
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Old 02-14-2015, 04:45 PM   #12
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Gears do not do anything for the cars other than make it FEEL faster.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:22 PM   #13
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How can you make our A6 fun to drive

Maybe a converter is a better choice over gears since he has a decent ratio already but to say gears won't do anything doesn't make sense. If you go from 3.15 to 4.10 it will help acceleration which in turn will help low end acceleration. That's why gears can help lower 60 ft times. Depending on his needs out of the car this may be a cheaper option that helps get him the performance he wants.


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Old 02-14-2015, 05:25 PM   #14
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Engine wise my car is stock and has an automatic and I think it's plenty fun to drive. I guess my expectations are lower than yours. This is the most powerful car I've owned and one of the most fun to drive. This includes my 1970 Monte Carlo with a 396 big block in it. It doesn't even have as much power or torque as the Mustang.

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Old 02-14-2015, 05:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarzTA17 View Post
Maybe a converter is a better choice over gears since he has a decent ratio already but to say gears won't do anything doesn't make sense. If you go from 3.15 to 4.10 it will help acceleration which in turn will help low end acceleration. That's why gears can help lower 60 ft times.
Wrong wrong wrong on all fronts. Stop spreading this information before you start looking realy bad here.
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Old 02-14-2015, 05:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarzTA17 View Post
Maybe a converter is a better choice over gears since he has a decent ratio already but to say gears won't do anything doesn't make sense. If you go from 3.15 to 4.10 it will help acceleration which in turn will help low end acceleration. That's why gears can help lower 60 ft times. Depending on his needs out of the car this may be a cheaper option that helps get him the performance he wants.


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I'm not really a track/race monkey for that matter. Its my DD car, that i drive for fun. I have never driven automatics before, well not fast cars I mean. Power wise, I know gears won't make no difference.. Its just the 'torquey feel' around town (under 4500rpms, without revving it sky high that I'm after. I don't think I will ever go higher than 3.73s if I went with gears though.




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Gears do not do anything for the cars other than make it FEEL faster.
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bazinga11 View Post
I'm not really a track/race monkey for that matter. Its my DD car, that i drive for fun. I have never driven automatics before, well not fast cars I mean. Power wise, I know gears won't make no difference.. Its just the 'torquey feel' around town (under 4500rpms, without revving it sky high that I'm after. I don't think I will ever go higher than 3.73s if I went with gears though.
In other words. 3.31 gearing. Those combined with the gear ratios in the 6R80 automatic transmission roughly equal out to a 3.73 gear ratio in the MT82 manual transmission
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Old 02-14-2015, 06:57 PM   #18
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In other words. 3.31 gearing. Those combined with the gear ratios in the 6R80 automatic transmission roughly equal out to a 3.73 gear ratio in the MT82 manual transmission
Exactly. So the question becomes, is it worth switching from 3.15's to 3.31's?
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Old 02-14-2015, 08:38 PM   #19
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Exactly. So the question becomes, is it worth switching from 3.15's to 3.31's?
Money wise, hell no. I just looked up gear ratios for A6s, they're darn deep!! Never think of that before, some say 3.55s on 6r80 are right neighborhood of 4.10s for MT-82s.
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Old 02-14-2015, 10:41 PM   #20
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Money wise, hell no. I just looked up gear ratios for A6s, they're darn deep!! Never think of that before, some say 3.55s on 6r80 are right neighborhood of 4.10s for MT-82s.
Not sure, but I think those are closer to a 3.90 ratio, and that 3.73's are a 4.10, 4.10 is equal to 4.56, etc. At least I'm mostly sure. Grabber, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 02-14-2015, 11:07 PM   #21
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Not sure, but I think those are closer to a 3.90 ratio, and that 3.73's are a 4.10, 4.10 is equal to 4.56, etc. At least I'm mostly sure. Grabber, correct me if I'm wrong.
Yep, hence why I said in the neighborhood of 4.10. Its the first and second gear that are quiet a bit deeper, and then it sort of eases off.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:38 AM   #22
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Money wise, hell no. I just looked up gear ratios for A6s, they're darn deep!! Never think of that before, some say 3.55s on 6r80 are right neighborhood of 4.10s for MT-82s.
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Not sure, but I think those are closer to a 3.90 ratio, and that 3.73's are a 4.10, 4.10 is equal to 4.56, etc. At least I'm mostly sure. Grabber, correct me if I'm wrong.
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Yep, hence why I said in the neighborhood of 4.10. Its the first and second gear that are quiet a bit deeper, and then it sort of eases off.
In a way everyone is correct here. Also tire size plays a big part.


I'll explain again now for anyone that wants to do a search on here going forward. The reason the autos (6R80) come with 3.15's is because of the steep gearing in the transmissions. These transmissions have been around for a few years now in other Ford vehicles like the Raptor, Excursion, and Pickup trucks. What do all these vehicles have in common? They're heavy vehicles. So we all know Ford will always use what drivetrain parts are in their current lineup with other vehicles. Hence the reason it was used in the close to 4000 lb. 400 horsepower Coyote. One of the reasons why the 6R80 is damn near bullet proof. If an F150 can tow 11,00 lbs. for 24 straight hours it can certainly live behind the newer 11-14 Mustangs. But remember a heavy vehicle needs steeper gearing which is why the 6R80 was built in such a manner. We know Ford wasn't going to change the ratios in it when they put it behind the Coyote which is why they arrived at 3.15's. So while 3.15's may not seem like a lot in reality they really are.

Here's a quick example courtesy of Kris Danner using a 3.31 gear.


Consider these first gear ratios:

C4 - 2.46
4R70W - 2.84
6R80 - 4.17

Take the 4.17 and multiply it by the 3.31, you get 13.8 for an overall gear ratio in 1st. Now take that 13.8 and divide it by the first gear ratios of the other transmissions and this tells you what axle ratio would give you the equivalent with those transmissions:

C4 - 5.61
4R70W - 4.86

So, although 3.31 "sounds like" not much gear, you can see that in the end, it is quite a bit of gear with the 6R80.

We can do the same with the second gear ratios:

6R80 - 2.34
C4 - 1.46
4R70W - 1.55

That puts the 6R80/3.31 at 7.75, which is like a 4R70W with a 5.00 axle, or a C4 with a 5.31 axle.

And finally 3rd gear, where the 6R80 is 1.52*3.31=5.03, the others are 1 to 1, so 5.03 would be the equivalent axle there.


You'd all agree that an axle in the 5.00 range is a lot of gear, well, we're doing exactly the same thing with the 3.31/6R80, we just have 3 more gears to go after that.


Going the other way, a 4.10/6R80 in first gear is like having a C4 with a 6.95 gear, or a 4R70W with a 6.02 gear. You can see why hooking it is a problem. __________________
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:02 PM   #23
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Hate to resurrect this, but after going from a 373 to a 331 in my a6 with a 5c converter, I have to say it feels like a pooch out of the hole. My car was doing 1.5 60' with the 373 gear on stock suspension. I've now added strange 10 way adjustable front struts, bmr adjustable upper and lower control arms and panhard bar. Went out to make some test hits the other night and both seat of the pants and viewing the launch recorded it seems weak Compared to before. They being said, talked to jpc today and they said the car would definitely be optimized with 410's. The problem is and why most do not see gains is 2 things. 1 traction if you cannot get your ride to hook. 2 the biggest issue is tuning. Very few tuners can nail down the steep 1-2 shift properly. With that being said I am debating on hitting the track again then going to 390 or 410 gears and seeing the real story for myself first hand (Probably 390). I will hook with any of those gear ratios. Has anyone else tried the 390 or 410 in a stalled auto and actually had a tuner who could nail down the 1-2 shift time?

I should add I'm also running a 295/55/15 MT so it's taller then a stock tire.

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Old 06-22-2015, 07:10 PM   #24
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Your main issue atm is shift points *with* a 5C converter, not very many tuners have been able to nail it down yet. Traction is going to be a betch with 3.90 or 4.10 gears, while you will certainly improve your 60ft times, chances are you will hurt your 1/4 mile. It is just going to be shift city

Talk to Mike Rousch, see what his opinion is. He's a magician with A6 coyotes. Imo 3.31 and 4C are a perfect combo for street and strip

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Old 06-22-2015, 08:33 PM   #25
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Your main issue atm is shift points *with* a 5C converter, not very many tuners have been able to nail it down yet. Traction is going to be a betch with 3.90 or 4.10 gears, while you will certainly improve your 60ft times, chances are you will hurt your 1/4 mile. It is just going to be shift city

Talk to Mike Rousch, see what his opinion is. He's a magician with A6 coyotes. Imo 3.31 and 4C are a perfect combo for street and strip

|| Low 5oh ||
My car is tuned by Shaun at AED and he has the shift points nailed down no issues. Rule of thumb is every tenth you drop in the 60' you drop 2 tenths in the quarter. He tunes the a6 as well as Rousch but makes more power. It's been seen time and time again. With the power band in these cars the 4c doesn't put you at as good of an rpm for peak tq as the 5c does for the launch. I actually took my car on a 3500 mile round trip on vac including through the mountains. Drove like a dream. Plenty streetable imo. Even with a bigger gear I will only be trapping in 4th. Idk how some other tuners tune autos but I seriously doubt I'll lose any et between shifts. My car almost seems like it jumps ahead between shifts.

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