Performance Difference 19" VS. 20" Wheels? - Page 2 - Mustang Evolution

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Old 02-19-2015, 10:49 AM   #36
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19" Forgestars are little lighter than stock 19's, but they're also stronger and wider.

The weights are listed on AM when you click on the individual wheel in the size / width that you want & look at specs.

I got the TSW's b/c they were even lighter and better looking in my opinion.
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:13 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
Of course it will. You're adding upspring weight.

Also a generally thinner sidewall (unless OP goes with a taller profile like a 35) has less flex so off the line would suffer. But going 35 would likewise add more weight so yeah


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Old 02-21-2015, 11:50 PM   #38
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Hey 50h,

I'll see what I can do for you

What size were you looking to get the weight on?

Let me know and I can definitely get the info for you!

-Will
I am looking for the 20in in both the 8.5 and 10. I will most likely do a staggered set up as well so thats why it would be nice to have both weights. Thank you man!

---------- Post added at 12:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:49 AM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by c_rizzle View Post
19" Forgestars are little lighter than stock 19's, but they're also stronger and wider.

The weights are listed on AM when you click on the individual wheel in the size / width that you want & look at specs.

I got the TSW's b/c they were even lighter and better looking in my opinion.
If you go to the Zevens for some reason it says N/A for weight.
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Old 02-21-2015, 11:56 PM   #39
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Supposedly the Godspeed omega wheel is one of the lightest one piece wheels out there! I have them in 18x10 rears and 18x8.5 front. They're nice and nobody around here has them. Click image for larger version

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Old 02-21-2015, 11:57 PM   #40
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Crap this thing is giving me trouble tonight
With posting. What I meant to add was. 18 will be your best bet for performance vs 19 or 20 but in my opinion 20 looks the best but they're usually the heaviest.


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Old 02-23-2015, 01:20 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by 50OHHHHH View Post
If you go to the Zevens for some reason it says N/A for weight.
Probably b/c they're heavy as sh1t, and they don't want to deter people when they see that they're 30+ lbs each. I've noticed that AM has no problems finding & listing the weights for wheels that are considered lightweight. (or less than OEM weights!)

For reference:

Hyper silver Premium 19x8.5 = 30 lbs - OEM
TSW NURBURGRING 19x8.5 = 21.9 lbs
TSW NURBURGRING 19x9.5 = 22.8 lbs
FORGESTAR F14 - 19x9 = 24.0 lbs
LAGUNA SECA STYLE - 19X9 = 28.7 lbs


245/45-19 tires:
Michelin Pilot Sport 3: 26.0 lbs
Hankook V12: 28.0 lbs
P Zero Nero All Season: 31.0 lbs - OEM

My stock wheels were 61 lbs.

Even going with wider wheels & tires
MT Street Comps - 255/40-19 @ 29 lbs + TSW 19x8.5 @ 21.9 = approx 51 lbs
MT Street Comps - 285/35-19 @ 30 lbs + TSW 19x9.5 @ 22.8 = approx 53 lbs

I saved a total of about 36 lbs off the wheels. I could have saved even more if I went with lighter tires like Pilot Super Sports. 24 & 28 for the same staggered sizes as above.
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Old 02-23-2015, 10:18 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_rizzle View Post
Probably b/c they're heavy as sh1t, and they don't want to deter people when they see that they're 30+ lbs each. I've noticed that AM has no problems finding & listing the weights for wheels that are considered lightweight. (or less than OEM weights!)

For reference:

Hyper silver Premium 19x8.5 = 30 lbs - OEM
TSW NURBURGRING 19x8.5 = 21.9 lbs
TSW NURBURGRING 19x9.5 = 22.8 lbs
FORGESTAR F14 - 19x9 = 24.0 lbs
LAGUNA SECA STYLE - 19X9 = 28.7 lbs


245/45-19 tires:
Michelin Pilot Sport 3: 26.0 lbs
Hankook V12: 28.0 lbs
P Zero Nero All Season: 31.0 lbs - OEM

My stock wheels were 61 lbs.

Even going with wider wheels & tires
MT Street Comps - 255/40-19 @ 29 lbs + TSW 19x8.5 @ 21.9 = approx 51 lbs
MT Street Comps - 285/35-19 @ 30 lbs + TSW 19x9.5 @ 22.8 = approx 53 lbs

I saved a total of about 36 lbs off the wheels.
I also looked at the F14 18x11's that were 22.8lbs, just a little expensive for my taste.
My 19x9 Brembo OE wheels less TPS sensor weighed 27.55lbs
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Old 02-24-2015, 08:58 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
I also looked at the F14 18x11's that were 22.8lbs, just a little expensive for my taste.
My 19x9 Brembo OE wheels less TPS sensor weighed 27.55lbs
Almost 5 lbs per corner is huge. x 4 = 20 lbs less unsprung weight.
That's like taking 80lbs out of the car of sprung weight. I can't believe an "Old Rodder" like yourself isn't about weight loss, especially when it comes to unspring and/or rotational mass. Speaking of rotational mass....

I also changed to an aluminum 1-piece driveshaft and I can say its a HUGE difference in responsiveness / acceleration. Well worth the $600. The change it made felt as much as a tune, which are $400-700.
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Old 02-24-2015, 10:36 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by c_rizzle View Post
Almost 5 lbs per corner is huge. x 4 = 20 lbs less unsprung weight.
That's like taking 80lbs out of the car of sprung weight. I can't believe an "Old Rodder" like yourself isn't about weight loss, especially when it comes to unspring and/or rotational mass. Speaking of rotational mass....

I also changed to an aluminum 1-piece driveshaft and I can say its a HUGE difference in responsiveness / acceleration. Well worth the $600. The change it made felt as much as a tune, which are $400-700.
Sorry _crizzle, what I meant to show was just the weights of the various wheels. I agree that on a race track unsprung weight and rotational mass can mean a lot, on the street it's debateable.

Actually, what you are talking about is rotating mass, not unsprung weight. Rotating mass must be accelerated/decelerated every time the speed changes, and it's harder to accelerate the rotating mass. Since most rotating mass (aside from the engine and the transmission) is unsprung weight (driveline, wheels, brake rotors) a reduction in unsprung weight generally entails a reduction in rotating mass, which helps acceleration. It's rotating mass that is roughly 3 times harder to accelerate than normal weight. Plain old unsprung weight is not any harder to accelerate. Basically, rotating mass must be accelerated twice every time the speeds up, it must be accelerated linearly in the direction of the vehicle's travel and rotationally in the direction of its spin.
As for a reduction in unsprung weight independent from rotating mass, this generally improves the suspensions ability to work properly. Unsprung weight contributes to inertia in the suspension, which in turn affects the geometry assumed by the suspension.
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Old 02-24-2015, 11:51 AM   #45
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2014 DIB 3.7 w/ sport shift "Blue Cyclone"

Technical huh, I run American Racing razors in 18x9" 24 lbs my tires are Yokohama in the rear a 275/40/18. These wheels are 4-5 lbs lighter than Shelby Razors.
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Old 02-24-2015, 01:40 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Sorry _crizzle, what I meant to show was just the weights of the various wheels. I agree that on a race track unsprung weight and rotational mass can mean a lot, on the street it's debateable.

Actually, what you are talking about is rotating mass, not unsprung weight. Rotating mass must be accelerated/decelerated every time the speed changes, and it's harder to accelerate the rotating mass. Since most rotating mass (aside from the engine and the transmission) is unsprung weight (driveline, wheels, brake rotors) a reduction in unsprung weight generally entails a reduction in rotating mass, which helps acceleration. It's rotating mass that is roughly 3 times harder to accelerate than normal weight. Plain old unsprung weight is not any harder to accelerate. Basically, rotating mass must be accelerated twice every time the speeds up, it must be accelerated linearly in the direction of the vehicle's travel and rotationally in the direction of its spin.
As for a reduction in unsprung weight independent from rotating mass, this generally improves the suspensions ability to work properly. Unsprung weight contributes to inertia in the suspension, which in turn affects the geometry assumed by the suspension.
Well what I was talking about was reducing the unsprung weight makes a big difference in handling on bumps (street & track). Having light tires, brakes, suspension parts allows them to bounce and conform to road better than heavy clunky parts. When you change to big heavy 20 inch wheels with less rubber, you will feel the difference when you hit a pot hole, etc. AND have the worse acceleration from heavier wheels/rotational mass.

Then the unsprung weight on the rear wheels & drive shaft are rotational weight also which affect acceleration a lot... in the 4-5x estimate. The rotational weight on all wheels also have that large affect on braking. Stopping a 60 lb wheel spinning at 100mph vs. 50 lb wheel is not as linear like sprung weight.

But we all get the point... unspring (which is usually rotational mass too) & rotational mass makes a BIG difference. So if you can reduce a few lbs a wheel its worth a lot more.

IF I keep my car long enough to need new rotors I'll replace them with the 2-piece Girodisc rotors to save another 3+ lbs per wheel, too. Right now I don't see the point in taking off my BRAND new rotors for approx. $350 per corner. ($100 per lb savings isn't worth it).

Rotational/unsprung:
Driveshaft was $30/lb. ($600/save 20 lbs)
TSW wheels were <$30/lb. (about $600 more than cheaper combo to save 20+ lbs)

Other quick fix weight:
lightweight battery = $5/lb ($100 to save about 20 lbs)
take out spare = $0/lb ($0 to take off about 30+ lbs)
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:02 PM   #47
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Changing the wheels 1" shouldn't change anything having to do with acceleration


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Yes it will it's not just the 1" it the weight difference between the wheels and the tires. That is all unsprung weight. But if you don't care about acceleration they will look very nice.
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Old 02-24-2015, 02:19 PM   #48
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Barely. Didn't notice a thing when I switched from 19x9 to 20x8.5 and 20x10


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Most aftermarket wheels are lighter than stock so you are pretty much correct. Also...if your tire is taller than stock it will change your gear ratio which is very noticeable. But if you stay with the same overall height you won't notice much difference. I changed to a tire that was an inch taller and even with 3.73 gears I felt like my car was sluggish starting out.


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Old 02-24-2015, 03:17 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by c_rizzle View Post
Well what I was talking about was reducing the unsprung weight makes a big difference in handling on bumps (street & track). Having light tires, brakes, suspension parts allows them to bounce and conform to road better than heavy clunky parts. When you change to big heavy 20 inch wheels with less rubber, you will feel the difference when you hit a pot hole, etc. AND have the worse acceleration from heavier wheels/rotational mass.

Then the unsprung weight on the rear wheels & drive shaft are rotational weight also which affect acceleration a lot... in the 4-5x estimate. The rotational weight on all wheels also have that large affect on braking. Stopping a 60 lb wheel spinning at 100mph vs. 50 lb wheel is not as linear like sprung weight.

But we all get the point... unspring (which is usually rotational mass too) & rotational mass makes a BIG difference. So if you can reduce a few lbs a wheel its worth a lot more.

IF I keep my car long enough to need new rotors I'll replace them with the 2-piece Girodisc rotors to save another 3+ lbs per wheel, too. Right now I don't see the point in taking off my BRAND new rotors for approx. $350 per corner. ($100 per lb savings isn't worth it).

Rotational/unsprung:
Driveshaft was $30/lb. ($600/save 20 lbs)
TSW wheels were <$30/lb. (about $600 more than cheaper combo to save 20+ lbs)

Other quick fix weight:
lightweight battery = $5/lb ($100 to save about 20 lbs)
take out spare = $0/lb ($0 to take off about 30+ lbs)
So, I assume you are going to do some serious auto cross or track time this summer with all of this rotational and unsprung weight savings.
How much did your car weigh to begin with. Have you had your car on scales to see where the weight is on each corner?
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Old 02-24-2015, 03:54 PM   #50
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So, I assume you are going to do some serious auto cross or track time this summer with all of this rotational and unsprung weight savings.
How much did your car weigh to begin with. Have you had your car on scales to see where the weight is on each corner?
Why wait until Summer? Its expected to be in the mid-60's this weekend!

http://www.mgpca.org/PerformanceDriving/ClubRacing.html

I'm actually taking it to a PCA HPDE event on Friday or Sunday. (have prior commitments on Sat.) Its actually the first event I'll be going to in this car.

I was waiting to break the car in (2,000+ miles) and do a few mods to get things where I want them. Technically, I wanted to put some new sway bars on, but ran out of time & they're out of stock for the set I want.

In the meantime between my last track car & getting this one "track worthy" I've been doing some Extreme Driving Experiences for fun. Drove a Gallardo, GT-R & 2 sessions w an Audi R8 V10. Here are some videos of the GT-R & R8.



I was "slow" in the GT-R b/c there was an R8 in front of me most of the time. But it also looks slower b/c I applied an image stabilization filter to the video which.

No, I didn't weigh the car before. But I KNOW its a big fat beast with horrible suspension compared to what I'm used to. (420hp @ 3,000 lbs with great suspension) The convertible didn't help, but I track the car a few times a year... its sunny & nice A LOT here. (like even today is top down weather)

Hopefully before the next track day I'll have:
new sway bars installed
lightweight radiator support
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