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Old 02-25-2015, 03:48 PM   #1
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GT500 brake booster on GT

I was wondering if a 2012-2014 GT500 brake booster would fit my 2012 GT? If so, would I need to upgrade anything else? I currently have factory brembos on my GT. Thanks for any help.


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Old 02-26-2015, 11:23 AM   #2
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If you are talking about the DR3Z-2005-B, yes it will.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustang Coyote View Post
I was wondering if a 2012-2014 GT500 brake booster would fit my 2012 GT? If so, would I need to upgrade anything else? I currently have factory brembos on my GT. Thanks for any help.


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It should fit without any upgrading as it was meant for the 6 piston calipers............just more volume.
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Old 02-26-2015, 01:06 PM   #4
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Ford GT500 Mustang Power Brake Booster DR3Z-2005-B (09-14 All) - Free Shipping
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Originally Posted by AmericanMuscle

Application.
This Genuine Ford replacement Power Brake Booster is designed for use on all 2009 to 2014 Mustangs, including the V6, GT, Bullitt, BOSS and Shelby GT500 models. Will not fit 2005-2008 Mustang models.
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Old 04-14-2015, 09:43 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
It should fit without any upgrading as it was meant for the 6 piston calipers............just more volume.
Found this when googling brake upgrades. Wanted to correct the above statement.

The GT500 booster has less volume, and provides less assist. 30% to be exact. So installed on a stock car with stock brakes, this will increase the force required to stop your car by 30%.
'
This is only an upgrade if you think your brakes are too grabby or easy to lockup.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:19 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix64 View Post
Found this when googling brake upgrades. Wanted to correct the above statement.

The GT500 booster has less volume, and provides less assist. 30% to be exact. So installed on a stock car with stock brakes, this will increase the force required to stop your car by 30%.
'
This is only an upgrade if you think your brakes are too grabby or easy to lockup.
Interesting, I thought it was the opposite. I suppose the GT500 booster would increase the modulation and brake feel since the massive 15 inch 6 piston brakes have so much power on tap already.
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Old 04-15-2015, 10:54 AM   #7
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Interesting, the way I read it, it requires 30% less effort "A GT500 vacuum brake booster will help reduce pedal effort by up to 30% when compared to the stock factory GT brake booster."
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Old 04-16-2015, 12:23 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Jbone007 View Post
Interesting, the way I read it, it requires 30% less effort "A GT500 vacuum brake booster will help reduce pedal effort by up to 30% when compared to the stock factory GT brake booster."
Yes, this should be correct.
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Old 04-16-2015, 05:35 PM   #9
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I've gone from base brakes to brembo's on my 2012 GT, and I've gone from stock to cadillac CTS-V 14in brembo's on my 1998 firebird.

In both cases greater caliper piston area = more force acting on a longer lever(larger rotor) and makes for "grabbier" and harder to modulate brakes. The gt500 booster fixes this by reducing assist. Ask anyone who has installed a big brake kit.

The following quote is from Rehagan racings advertisement on the gt500 brake booster-

"Reduced assist by 30% compared to production Mustang GT brake booster"

Or check out late Model Restorations description-

"Adding a big brake kit to your Mustang can often leave you with a touchy brake pedal. This is especially true for 2005 to '14 Mustangs.

Common solution is to use the '07 to '14 GT500 style power brake booster. This is a direct bolt on for non-Brembo packaged GTs as well as V6s, and it will reduce your power braking assist by about 30%, which gives you a better pedal feel, as well as better brake pressure modulation on both the track and the street.

Ford Racing has been using this exact booster on their FR500 and Boss 302 race cars for some now. You can have one, too."
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Old 04-16-2015, 05:42 PM   #10
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I'm sure AMR just got the assist part backwards, and are not trying to sell people a part that will actually hurt their braking performance.
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Old 04-17-2015, 02:45 PM   #11
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Doesn't increasing caliper piston swept area and doing nothing else increase pedal travel?
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Old 04-17-2015, 03:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
Doesn't increasing caliper piston swept area and doing nothing else increase pedal travel?
No. That theory would be true if when you pushed the pedal the pistons were actually moving some significant distance. But they don't. They sit right up against the pad that sits against the rotor. Pads can compress, but you are talking tiny percentages.

When you push the pedal it produces X-psi that X-psi then acts on the piston area of the caliper. If you increase the piston area of the caliper you are increasing the area that that X-psi is working on.

Swept area is different than lever arm. I can increase the swept area without increasing the lever arm of the brakes.

Trust me, on my 1998 firebird all you have to do is breathe on the brakes, and it feels like the car is going to rip your face off. I also own a stock 1999 camaro, that requires about 3-4 times the pedal travel to stop the car with its stock 2 piston 11.9in brakes.

On my mustang I went from an aggressive street/auto-x compound(more bite than stock) in the stock 13.2in brakes To the OEM pads(less bite) in the 14in brembo brakes. Still the car requires less pedal force to get it stopped with the 14in brembo's.

Engineering Inspiration - Brake System Design Calculations
If you still don't believe me go to this website and run some calculations. I spent 12 months in afghanistan deciding what brakes to put on my cars. You can go crazy in depth with coefficients of friction, swept area, lever arm, thermal capacity and such.
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Old 04-17-2015, 06:45 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Phoenix64 View Post
No, caliper piston area and swept area are two separate things. You would be correct if the pistons were moving a significant distance each time you hit the brakes however they don't.
Longer reply awaiting approval.
Swept was a poor choice of words in this case, since I realize it normally refers to rotors. That said, The reason I asked is that it has been the case for many of the brake systems I have messed with over the years. Typically, larger calipers = spongier/longer travel brake pedal. Larger MC = firmer/shorter brake pedal (that requires more pedal force). Again, assuming no other changes.

The pedal on my bone stock base 14 already feels, spongy and seems to have too much travel stock (not sure if that is a typical trait on these, no one replied to my other post and I have not driven other new base GT's). Would be surprised if more caliper area and no MC/booster change would not make that worse.
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Old 04-17-2015, 07:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OX1 View Post

The pedal on my bone stock base 14 already feels, spongy and seems to have too much travel stock (not sure if that is a typical trait on these, no one replied to my other post and I have not driven other new base GT's). Would be surprised if more caliper area and no MC/booster change would not make that worse.
I have to agree with you on one thing. The stock brakes are criminally bad on these mustangs.

I don't know what to tell you, but I've done it twice and had the same results both times, more caliper piston area required less pedal force. Although even with the brembo calipers the mustang brakes aren't amazing.

I'll leave you with an equation. I think the math is on my side.

CLAMPING FORCE = PISTON SURFACE AREA ON 1 SIDE OF ROTOR x LINE PRESSURE
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:16 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Phoenix64 View Post
I have to agree with you on one thing. The stock brakes are criminally bad on these mustangs.

I don't know what to tell you, but I've done it twice and had the same results both times, more caliper piston area required less pedal force. Although even with the brembo calipers the mustang brakes aren't amazing.

I'll leave you with an equation. I think the math is on my side.

CLAMPING FORCE = PISTON SURFACE AREA ON 1 SIDE OF ROTOR x LINE PRESSURE
In theory, at the expense of pedal travel, same math. There is no free lunch.

This is not to say all kinds of things have happened with different brake systems on different rides for me over the years. Even had drastically different braking results on two cars of same chassis and almost identical braking systems.

Anyway, that is why I asked, just curious what the actual result was, regardless of what it should have been.
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Old 04-18-2015, 10:20 AM   #16
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Again what you say is true if the piston has to move a significant distance such as pad knock back. Or that first push after putting in new pads.

Just make sure you aren't associating caliper size with piston area.

I don't know what your specific experience is but i know over on ls1tech a common assumption was that the cts-v 6 piston calipers were "better" than the 4 piston. The 6 piston caliper has much larger external dimensions, but has less total piston area(compensating for the larger rotor it was designed for). So the 4 piston caliper produced more clamping force. Even though the 6 piston caliper looks like the more bad *** setup the 4 piston on the same 14in rotor stops harder.
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Old 04-18-2015, 12:49 PM   #17
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Hey rocket scientists, will I have to brake harder or softer with this booster? Haha, thanks.

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Old 04-18-2015, 01:44 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mustang Coyote View Post
Hey rocket scientists, will I have to brake harder or softer with this booster? Haha, thanks.

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You will have to push harder on the pedal to stop.
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Old 04-19-2015, 12:11 AM   #19
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Again what you say is true if the piston has to move a significant distance such as pad knock back. Or that first push after putting in new pads.
I was not asking whether it is true, pretty well established braking 101 that larger calipers only = more pedal travel. I was asking if it happens in this case, as sometimes established norms due not manifest in the real world.

Anyway, you or someone answered that question that it did not seem to greatly increase pedal travel and that brakes may feel overboosted after increasing caliper size, hence desire to put in lower "ouput" brake booster.

Being my stock setup is already too long travel and mushy feeling to me, I'd be real surprised that larger calipers made that "better" or "touchier". Would only think it might make it better if the brakes were too "touchy" in stock configuration.

My preference is always very short travel and low force (or touchier) brakes. So if there is nothing wrong with my stock brakes (unsure as of yet), I'd be looking for increased brake boosting and a larger MC, before I would be looking for increased caliper size.

"Any increase in caliper piston area alone will be accompanied by an increase in pedal travel."

Brake System and Upgrade Selection

"caliper- Pedal Feel
larger piston bore = softer, longer travel"

https://books.google.com/books?id=tG...travel&f=false

"A larger piston requires more fluid to move it, so it makes the pedal feel softer and requires more pedal travel."

Proper Brake System - Master Cylinder - Circle Track Magazine
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Old 04-19-2015, 09:08 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by OX1 View Post
My preference is always very short travel and low force (or touchier) brakes. So if there is nothing wrong with my stock brakes (unsure as of yet), I'd be looking for increased brake boosting and a larger MC, before I would be looking for increased caliper size.
Well, if I can just get you to read the upper left corner of your own second reference it contradicts your statement.

A larger bore master cylinder = less line pressure. Less line pressure = less clamping force at the caliper. Thus requiring more force at the pedal.

Quote from a review of the GT500 15in brakes added to a stock 2014 gt with stock master and booster.

"Coming from the base brakes these are on a whole other level. I just put my toe on them and my face is in the windshield! I think i will never be happy with anything less, i think I've been ruined for all other brakes"

That sounds a lot like what you say you want doesn't it?

"A larger piston requires more fluid to move it, so it makes the pedal feel softer and requires more pedal travel."

Read your own quote and remember that a "soft" pedal is easier to push, and a "hard" pedal is harder to push. You said you want "low force brakes".

Therefore based on your references, you want larger caliper pistons.

At this point man I'm just playing devils advocate.

I absolutely concede your "larger master, larger booster" could get you what you want if you found a large enough booster.

However you keep talking about increasing piston size as though people were just boring out the stock calipers, putting bigger pistons in them, and changing nothing else.

In reality they are going from a sliding caliper to a fixed 2 piece caliper(much stiffer=less pedal travel). Acting on a larger rotor(more leverage). With more piston area(more force).

So yes you get a small increase in dead pedal(pedal travel before the brakes bite) from the greater piston volume, maybe 1/2in or so, but no one notices because the brakes bite so much harder.
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Old 04-19-2015, 02:25 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Phoenix64 View Post
Well, if I can just get you to read the upper left corner of your own second reference it contradicts your statement.

A larger bore master cylinder = less line pressure. Less line pressure = less clamping force at the caliper. Thus requiring more force at the pedal.

Quote from a review of the GT500 15in brakes added to a stock 2014 gt with stock master and booster.

"Coming from the base brakes these are on a whole other level. I just put my toe on them and my face is in the windshield! I think i will never be happy with anything less, i think I've been ruined for all other brakes"

That sounds a lot like what you say you want doesn't it?

"A larger piston requires more fluid to move it, so it makes the pedal feel softer and requires more pedal travel."

Read your own quote and remember that a "soft" pedal is easier to push, and a "hard" pedal is harder to push. You said you want "low force brakes".

Therefore based on your references, you want larger caliper pistons.

At this point man I'm just playing devils advocate.

I absolutely concede your "larger master, larger booster" could get you what you want if you found a large enough booster.
Well, I want short stroke and below average pedal pressure. And yes, without a substantially higher force producing booster, my larger MC would not get me what I want. My favorite is hydroboost, but obviously that is not happening on these new electric steering rides. I assume it won't be long until an updated electric HB like the Mk VII's had should be avail (or heck, straight electric actuated for that matter).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix64 View Post
However you keep talking about increasing piston size as though people were just boring out the stock calipers, putting bigger pistons in them, and changing nothing else.

In reality they are going from a sliding caliper to a fixed 2 piece caliper(much stiffer=less pedal travel). Acting on a larger rotor(more leverage). With more piston area(more force).

So yes you get a small increase in dead pedal(pedal travel before the brakes bite) from the greater piston volume, maybe 1/2in or so, but no one notices because the brakes bite so much harder.
Hence my previous concession that theory does not always work, and sometimes I can't figure why. But the intangibles you mention help explain at least some of it.

The more I hear, the more I think I need to go drive another 13/14 with base brakes and see if mine really are that different (bad). I feel like my first pump is half travel (probably not that bad in reality, but after owning and driving many new cars and trucks that all have very little pedal travel, it seems like these are "on the floorboard" comparatively). I have a 70 bronco with hodge-podged together brakes of 70's 1/2 ton fronts disks, Mk VII rear (graphed onto a 9"), and 2000ish stang HB on 33's AT tires and it feels like it brakes better than this GT.

Add another bit of travel on my GT with the Brembos and I'd be rear ending people in near panic situations, thinking I might get some braking action and getting nothing until way beyond normal brake pedal travel. Getting back to the original topic, I can't see that reduced force booster ever working for me.

Good discussion. Never had any kind of even mild debate that I didn't learn something new.
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Old 04-19-2015, 08:59 PM   #22
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I've got a 14 TrakPak car and just upgraded my rears from pathetical small 11.8" rear rotors to 13.8" GT500 rotors. I was satisfied with the pedal travel and pressure and the stopping power before I made the change and when I replaced the OE pads with metallic I really noticed a big difference.
My 9.8sec drag used a Lamb master with 10" Aerospace Products 4 piston in front and 11.8" 4 piston in the rear and I could stop the car from 133mph even on short strips without a chute...........and the car was 3225lbs with me and 5gallons of race gas.
I'm not sure what booster came with the TrakPak cars but mine feels a lot more solid than the one 14GT/non-Brembo that I took for a test ride before I bought mine.
Personally I don't think the 6 piston Brembo setup will do much better than the 4 piston anywhere except on the track. I guess we will find out in September at the SSCC.
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