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Old 03-28-2015, 12:43 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by BLKBETTY13 View Post
Go with BMR and be done with it!
High torque hardware I used (red) locktite and lighter items I used (blue).
Made sense for me and just a bit more insurance that they won't back out.


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I am sure BMR stuff is great, but I prefer Steeda, and I'm trying to keep everything the same brand. Keep it all cohesive. I've had great experiences with their product and customer service. I already have the CC plates, Panhard, and springs. Looking to get the UPC, LCA, brackets for UPC & LCA and eventually the watts link. Once I get the UPC and bracket I will actually install my kit. I also have the Koni yellows. I don't race my car but I drive it about 7-800 miles a week. So I need it to be reliable and practical until it becomes my weekend car once paid off.
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Old 03-28-2015, 12:45 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
I am sure BMR stuff is great, but I prefer Steeda, and I'm trying to keep everything the same brand. Keep it all cohesive. I've had great experiences with their product and customer service. I already have the CC plates, Panhard, and springs. Looking to get the UPC, LCA, brackets for UPC & LCA and eventually the watts link. Once I get the UPC and bracket I will actually install my kit. I also have the Koni yellows. I don't race my car but I drive it about 7-800 miles a week. So I need it to be reliable and practical until it becomes my weekend car once paid off.

That's A LOT of driving. Me personally in that position, I'd probably change out the hardware. My car gets driven under 100 miles per week lol.


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Old 03-28-2015, 12:49 PM   #73
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I agree with sticking with a brand. Steeda makes quality stuff!
Just wasn't my choice.


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Old 03-28-2015, 01:51 PM   #74
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I replaced on my hardware when I lowered the car with OE, and my car only had 2700 miles. It was cheap insurance at $100 for all the front and rear.
When I replaced the pan hard bolts and nuts I couldn't find the nut for the left side of the bar so I used the old one. I re-torqued it spec and it was fine.
Later I installed the LCA's and also used new hardware, again cheap insurance for $16. While I was under the car I thought I'd re-torque both pan hard bar bolts. The right side was fine and the left side stripped before I got to the required torque.....that was the one I reused, the rest were new. I know my torque wrenches are right on because late last year I had both of my Snap-On wrenches re-certified.
When it comes to suspension............it doesn't make any difference if your car is a DD or garage queen.........Ford says to replace the hardware, especially the nuts for a reason, and it's not to get your money.............it's for safety.
Just imagine having a suspension piece fail and hurting you or your family or even worse someone else...............why take chances with safety, the cost is so small.................IMHO
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:01 PM   #75
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Olerodder, do you happen to have the part numbers and qty required? I suppose I can sit there with a parts guy and figure it out but a list would be awesome. Maybe you have your invoice handy?
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:06 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
Olerodder, do you happen to have the part numbers and qty required? I suppose I can sit there with a parts guy and figure it out but a list would be awesome. Maybe you have your invoice handy?
I am currently in Moab, UT for Jeep Week and won't be home until later next week or I would. I actually thought about putting a list on the Forum just as a reference...........guess I should have.
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Old 03-28-2015, 02:17 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
I replaced on my hardware when I lowered the car with OE, and my car only had 2700 miles. It was cheap insurance at $100 for all the front and rear.
When I replaced the pan hard bolts and nuts I couldn't find the nut for the left side of the bar so I used the old one. I re-torqued it spec and it was fine.
Later I installed the LCA's and also used new hardware, again cheap insurance for $16. While I was under the car I thought I'd re-torque both pan hard bar bolts. The right side was fine and the left side stripped before I got to the required torque.....that was the one I reused, the rest were new. I know my torque wrenches are right on because late last year I had both of my Snap-On wrenches re-certified.
When it comes to suspension............it doesn't make any difference if your car is a DD or garage queen.........Ford says to replace the hardware, especially the nuts for a reason, and it's not to get your money.............it's for safety.
Just imagine having a suspension piece fail and hurting you or your family or even worse someone else...............why take chances with safety, the cost is so small.................IMHO

Again, this is all circumstantial. I've checked all my aftermarket suspension components, and greased up the flutes at least a half dozen times in 13 months of ownership. No issues, nothing loose, nothing to even note or speak of. Maybe I'm lucky? Lol.


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Old 03-28-2015, 02:17 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
I am currently in Moab, UT for Jeep Week and won't be home until later next week or I would. I actually thought about putting a list on the Forum just as a reference...........guess I should have.

Well I won't be ready before that so please do when you get home. I'd much rather go in with a parts list or order them all online if possible
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:21 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
I am currently in Moab, UT for Jeep Week and won't be home until later next week or I would. I actually thought about putting a list on the Forum just as a reference...........guess I should have.
That would be great if you could when you have time. Thanks for all the information.
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Old 03-28-2015, 03:53 PM   #80
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So questions...

1) What is better the Adjustable UCA or the Adjustable LCA?
2) Would having both just be redundant?
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:15 PM   #81
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Suspension setup questions

ADJUSTABLE UCA is recommended when lowered to correct pinion angle. LCA doesn't really need to be adjustable unless you are racing your car and really want to dial it in. Most just run a stationary LCA with relo brackets which corrects some of the bind when lowered.
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Old 03-28-2015, 04:16 PM   #82
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Having both is the way to go since they have two different jobs. Both helps wheel hop and traction if car is lowered UCA adjust pinion angle do get bracket also.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:12 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
Well I won't be ready before that so please do when you get home. I'd much rather go in with a parts list or order them all online if possible
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That would be great if you could when you have time. Thanks for all the information.

I will list all of the front and rear suspension pieces with part numbers and jobber prices when I get back.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:22 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by 2014oxstang View Post
Again, this is all circumstantial. I've checked all my aftermarket suspension components, and greased up the flutes at least a half dozen times in 13 months of ownership. No issues, nothing loose, nothing to even note or speak of. Maybe I'm lucky? Lol.


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Nothing circumstantial about Ford saying in writing not to reuse the suspension nuts and bolts and I wasn't talking about aftermarket pieces, I was just talking about hardware.
I guess it's dumb luck.
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Old 03-28-2015, 06:44 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Nothing circumstantial about Ford saying in writing not to reuse the suspension nuts and bolts and I wasn't talking about aftermarket pieces, I was just talking about hardware.
I guess it's dumb luck.

Lol, ok


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Old 03-30-2015, 01:45 AM   #86
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I reused ALL factory hardware with no issues other then my panhard rod not being tightened sufficiently. Once I found that issue and addressed it, I haven't had an issue since. Me personally have not heard of anyone having issues or noises with factory hardware. That being said I don't scour the forums for that kind of information.


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So your issue was figuring out your panhard rod issue? And you haven't had an issue since? I also have not heard any issues about noise issues with the factory hardware issue. I also don't scour the forums for issues of this kind of issue.


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Old 03-30-2015, 08:48 AM   #87
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So your issue was figuring out your panhard rod issue? And you haven't had an issue since? I also have not heard any issues about noise issues with the factory hardware issue. I also don't scour the forums for issues of this kind of issue.


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Yes. I was installing my suspension with a buddy and he tightened the panhard rod. Or so I thought. Once I retightened it, I was good to go.


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Old 03-30-2015, 08:49 AM   #88
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Yes. I was installing my suspension with a buddy and he tightened the panhard rod. Or so I thought. Once I retightened it, I was good to go. Not an ISSUE to be had compstall


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Old 03-30-2015, 12:48 PM   #89
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Just a comparison (before we coat the part) of the slop difference between OEM and BMR Mount.
Shouldn't you supply a bolt that has no threads up to the point where the bracket ends. I know when I'm making something I'll buy a longer bolt with a longer "shoulder" then cut of the excess threads if I have to so the threads won't be in a load bearing position.
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:56 PM   #90
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Shouldn't you supply a bolt that has no threads up to the point where the bracket ends. I know when I'm making something I'll buy a longer bolt with a longer "shoulder" then cut of the excess threads if I have to so the threads won't be in a load bearing position.
Really you should by a bolt the correct size and not have to cut it at all. Buying special bolts can be expensive, but if you value you and others safety buy the correct one. It's as easy as typing on your computer.
Now with that said 98% of the people will buy whatever bolt fits and leave it at that.
I now I'll get flack for this and people will say, "Well my car isn't a race car", or "I only drive my car 100 miles a month".......so what difference does it make. Maybe to you none.........and that's ok for you...............it isn't for me.
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Old 03-30-2015, 04:22 PM   #91
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Shouldn't you supply a bolt that has no threads up to the point where the bracket ends. I know when I'm making something I'll buy a longer bolt with a longer "shoulder" then cut of the excess threads if I have to so the threads won't be in a load bearing position.
That is not how it works.

There is not any "real" advantage to having the shank protrude all the way through the mounting points. That is why OEM manufactures do not do it, nor does the aftermarket, on most applications.

Suspension mounting bolts are to apply a specific clamping force, so that said clamping force holds the piece in tact. The surface area on a sleeve, or the part inside the bracket being tightened, is actually the most important factor in the parts stability and lack of movement. The mounting of the part should not be designed specifically based on the shear strength of the mounting bolt.

On that note, here is the result of load testing a control arm past 20K+lbs force, repeatedly. This is an M14 Bolt. Notice where the yield was; the shank.



Here is an example of an OEM Bolt, compared to a bolt that we supply...and likely all others who provide the bolts for the specific piece. (this is an S197 LCA Bolt)



That's all.
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Old 03-31-2015, 09:42 AM   #92
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That is not how it works.

There is not any "real" advantage to having the shank protrude all the way through the mounting points. That is why OEM manufactures do not do it, nor does the aftermarket, on most applications.

On that note, here is the result of load testing a control arm past 20K+lbs force, repeatedly. This is an M14 Bolt. Notice where the yield was; the shank.



Here is an example of an OEM Bolt, compared to a bolt that we supply...and likely all others who provide the bolts for the specific piece. (this is an S197 LCA Bolt)



That's all.
Interesting, if that part is going back & forth thousands and thousands of times (like suspension parts can do over 100k miles) under pressure and there's movement I would think the threaded part would wear faster due to less metal and slightly smaller diameter than the shank portion generally.

Just like the pictures of people's crash bolts... I mean camber bolts where the threads get worn out, it made me think its best to NOT have threads in a POTENTIAL load bearing area. I've actually seen this happen on our tube bender when we replaced a large pin with a giant grade 8 bolt in a similar set up. (the threaded portion wore out faster)

Also, if they're using the stock mount with and aftermarket UCA and you're hearing that clunk that means the bolt is moving back & forth and the threaded area would probably wear faster and clunk even more, right? I understand under extreme load the middle is where the weakest point would be and mostly likely to bend, since there's more leverage applied there, vs. pure sheering force at the ends.

What grade bolts do you use ?
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Old 03-31-2015, 10:52 AM   #93
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We use Grade 10.9 bolts. (OEM Spec)

And yes, you are correct about the OEM bolt/slop in the UCA Mount. If you take a look at the picture you quoted above, you will notice some nice shiny marks on the inside mounts.

OEM designs feature protrusions, which are designed to "dig" into the mount, to prevent fore/aft/vertical movement. Here is an example:



As you can see, the system is designed to be torqued to a specification (over 200ftlbs) that causes the sleeve to bury it's protrusions into the mount.

Aftermarket companies have to keep costs low for the consumer, and build "beefier" products, so that design is not realistic for us.

This design I posted is a great example of the point I made. The bolt TQ, paired with the outer sleeve surface area/design, enables the UCA to stay in tact on OEM applications. As you can see, the OEM bolt slop is very substantial....AND, the OEM Bolts do not have a shank that fills the entire mounting bracket widths.

Aftermarket parts, when engineered properly, feature thick sleeves with substantial mounting surface.....as well as tighter tolerance on the mounting brackets.

Seeing the OEM Sleeve above, now compare it to this system:





That assembly is hard to "move" when it is loose. When it is torqued to 200ftlbs, or more, it isn't budging. There will definitely be very little, if any at all, force on the threads when it is loaded up.

Every suspension bolt on the S197, from the factory, has threads that pass through one side of the mounting bracket. Front and rear suspension.
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:22 AM   #94
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Ok, I understand what you are saying and I was under the impression that the key dimension in any bolt that is both loaded in double shear and tension (compression) was the grip length.
Am I wrong?
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Old 03-31-2015, 11:35 AM   #95
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We use Grade 10.9 bolts. (OEM Spec)

And yes, you are correct about the OEM bolt/slop in the UCA Mount. If you take a look at the picture you quoted above, you will notice some nice shiny marks on the inside mounts.

OEM designs feature protrusions, which are designed to "dig" into the mount, to prevent fore/aft/vertical movement. Here is an example:

As you can see, the system is designed to be torqued to a specification (over 200ftlbs) that causes the sleeve to bury it's protrusions into the mount.

Aftermarket companies have to keep costs low for the consumer, and build "beefier" products, so that design is not realistic for us.

This design I posted is a great example of the point I made. The bolt TQ, paired with the outer sleeve surface area/design, enables the UCA to stay in tact on OEM applications. As you can see, the OEM bolt slop is very substantial....AND, the OEM Bolts do not have a shank that fills the entire mounting bracket widths.

Aftermarket parts, when engineered properly, feature thick sleeves with substantial mounting surface.....as well as tighter tolerance on the mounting brackets.


That assembly is hard to "move" when it is loose. When it is torqued to 200ftlbs, or more, it isn't budging. There will definitely be very little, if any at all, force on the threads when it is loaded up.

Every suspension bolt on the S197, from the factory, has threads that pass through one side of the mounting bracket. Front and rear suspension.
THANK YOU! Some very good information!! Nice to have you a part of the forum! We have all these weekend warriors (racers) or even engineers or metal fabers, etc.. in here, but its nice to have an actual car part maker in here explaining things.

Your pictures and explanations make me want to go out & change my UCA & mount asap!
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:08 AM   #96
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I will list all of the front and rear suspension pieces with part numbers and jobber prices when I get back.

Olerodder, you back in town sir? I'm bringing this back to the top. Hoping to get my last parts needed for my install and would still love to get that parts list if you have it.
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:24 PM   #97
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Olerodder, you back in town sir? I'm bringing this back to the top. Hoping to get my last parts needed for my install and would still love to get that parts list if you have it.
Sorry I just got back into town.
Here you go, there are a few that weren't named and some of the bolts are used in multiple locations so they may say lower control arm nuts......


Also, if you want to get some good prices go here and order them. This is the same dealer I got the Shelby twin tip mufflers and GT500 rear valance kit for $625 shipped for a friend. For any OE Ford parts they are the cheapest.

BUMPER & COMPONENTS - REAR for 2014 Ford Mustang
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Old 04-04-2015, 12:56 PM   #98
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Your the man. Thank you!
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Old 04-04-2015, 03:17 PM   #99
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Placed another order from Steeda today

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This is the last of what I wanted before the install. I think I might need to start a build thread
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:04 PM   #100
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Sorry I just got back into town.
Here you go, there are a few that weren't named and some of the bolts are used in multiple locations so they may say lower control arm nuts......


Also, if you want to get some good prices go here and order them. This is the same dealer I got the Shelby twin tip mufflers and GT500 rear valance kit for $625 shipped for a friend. For any OE Ford parts they are the cheapest.

BUMPER & COMPONENTS - REAR for 2014 Ford Mustang
Thank you!
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