BMR Adj UCA - Unable to get neg. pinion angle :( Help? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 05-03-2015, 01:30 PM   #1
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BMR Adj UCA - Unable to get neg. pinion angle :( Help?

Suspension mods:
Eibach Springs: 1" front, 1.5" rear
BMR Adj Panhard: 2mm to the passenger side, within tolerance
BMR LCA Relocation Brackets: Middle Hole
BMR Non-Adj LCA: like a glove
BMR UCA Mount: Top hole
BMR Adj UCA: In but, yeah, this thread...

Tried to get the car as level as possible, front end on ramps, rear end with a load on the axles (not hanging). Measuring from the rear half of the 2-pc driveshaft as BMR's manual suggest: I am about +2 degrees with the UCA turned almost all the way in. Not good.

I noticed when I got my UCA it was set to be about 1" longer than my factory UCA. They are allegedly set to "stock" length when shipped, but not mine.

With the jam nuts fully centered I have about 1/4" on either side, so 1/2" total to close the gap to bring the top of the diff down towards the ground to a negative angle.

Again, this was with a load on the axes but also the very first time it had a load.

I buttoned everything up for the time being and got the car sitting on all fours. I took it for a VERY LIGHT spin around the block, max speed of 30mph listening for whine, etc. I AM NOT LEAVING IT LIKE THIS. I only drove it to help the fresh components settle in for a moment. Took it up and down the curb to my driveway a few times just to get things bouncing to hopefully get the springs and other components to settle in just a tad.

It is now in my garage on all fours sitting. I will be taking it to my buddy's dealer after hours to throw it up on an alignment rack after a week of sitting.

I feel it is safe to limp the car with a + pinion WITHOUT GETTING ON IT. Granny drive it, as not to put too much of a load on compenents. His dealer is about 5 miles away.

In the event that I cannot properly set the pinion angle using the UCA, what then? I do not have adjustable lowers and the tires are dead-center front-back to the wheel well and also dead on from front center to rear center both sides of the vehicle.

Everything else went in pretty much without a hitch, aside from the stock strut mounts (forget them things, geez).

Thoughts? Ideas? Condolences?

Anyone else with this issue? I really appreciate the help.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:33 PM   #2
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I have never put it a BMR as I've got a Whiteline. Why did you set the pinion angle at +2 degrees. On a two piece driveline I would think you want it close to 0 degrees, because under acceleration it is going to rotate towards the + side.
Just for justification, you really don't need to have the whole car jacked up, just the rear..................but the tires should sitting on something thus loading the chassis, not putting jack stands under the housing.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:36 PM   #3
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If you have an iPhone there is a great app for driveline angle finder.............called Tremec Tool Box. I think it costs a few bucks but works great.
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:08 PM   #4
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Hey ole - I didn't set the pinion to +2 - it is +2 because I couldn't get it negative. The BMR Adj UCA only goes so far in. I need it more in to get a negative angle. I am shooting for -2 and, if I can, -2.5.

I do have several apps to check the angle as well as a magnetic, too. So I'm good there.

You are correct I had the axle supported, but as in my OP I did just tighten it up for the time being and take a quick put put around the block at low speeds and made sure to up/down the curb to my driveway a few times to get a complete load on the suspension and help settle things in. I will be doing this a few times until I can get the car up on a proper alignment rack Tuesday night (freind's dealer, after hours).

I am hoping that by things settling I will be able to get a good reading then.

I also noted that the areas I could reach and read on jackstands (yeah, confined space down there, ick) with the rear portion of the driveshaft, I got multiple readings from the shaft in several places. So either my DS is out of round (don't see how that is possible, but stranger things have happened) or there are inconsistencies in the driveshaft.

I will have access to a lift and alignment rack so I am hoping I will be able to dial it in correctly in a few days. Until then it sits so things settle in.

Is it me just being paranoid with all new suspension and not giving it some time to settle down on the new springs? Maybe so. I did notice while the vehicle rested on the axle on jacks that even after I put the wheels back on and brought it down to the ground to sit on all 4s there was less well space than when on jackstands.

For reference, the first time with new suspension there was a load on the axle was when I lowered it on jacks to look at the pinion angle. Just like with front springs it sat higher upon initial drop before moving the vehicle even a few feet to let everything get back in place. I'm assuming the same is true for the rear with the control arms and new springs.

I can only assume having a +2 is safe to drive a few miles, LIGHTLY, to my bud's shop so I can get it up on the alignment rack. No heavy foot and easing the torque to minimize deflection.
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:16 PM   #5
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OP did you watch the video BMR has on pinion angle and how to set it you have to take two readings and subtract them that will give you your angle. Kelly is a Mustang suspension expert.
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:17 PM   #6
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Your springs will settle in for a couple 100 miles or maybe a little more. Yes, you are actually not loading the complete chassis when you are putting the jack stands under the rear axle, the tires need to be on something solid.....it's the only way to load the chassis.
As for the two piece driveline, it moves all over the place because of the center CV joint............I personally think it's a piece of junk, but then I'm prejudiced because I scrapped mine in favor of a 1 piece aluminum shaftmasters.
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teak 14 View Post
OP did you watch the video BMR has on pinion angle and how to set it you have to take two readings and subtract them that will give you your angle. Kelly is a Mustang suspension expert.
Yep.

If my shaft is -3 and I am shooting for -2 TO the shaft, then I would be -1 as a final result. That's not the issue though. It's not being able to get a negative in comparison to the driveshaft due to not being able to adjust the upper in enough to set the pinion at a negative to the shaft, with a BMR upper adjustable.

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Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Your springs will settle in for a couple 100 miles or maybe a little more. Yes, you are actually not loading the complete chassis when you are putting the jack stands under the rear axle, the tires need to be on something solid.....it's the only way to load the chassis.
As for the two piece driveline, it moves all over the place because of the center CV joint............I personally think it's a piece of junk, but then I'm prejudiced because I scrapped mine in favor of a 1 piece aluminum shaftmasters.
OK, cool. I will have to get the car up on the alignment rack, then. I figured I could at least get it close resting the axle on jacks and dial it in later but I couldn't even get close.

As I stated in my OP the BMR was far longer than my stock UCA and adjusted in to match the 9.5" length I barely have any more room to go. I have about 1/2" total I can bring it in before I am full stop with it and can't go any further.

Will take it easy to drive on it for now without going crazy and just give it a few to settle in completely. After I go Tuesday I will give it a few more weeks then bring it back to double check again after some mileage. The 5 minutes of checking after a hundred or so miles is well worth it, IMO.
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:34 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
but the tires should sitting on something thus loading the chassis, not putting jack stands under the housing.
lol you get the same result man, putting jack stands under the axle tubes is the same as the car sitting on the ground........



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Old 05-03-2015, 05:15 PM   #9
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lol you get the same result man, putting jack stands under the axle tubes is the same as the car sitting on the ground........



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No it isn't, you are loading the chassis inside the scrub line. Granted it's not a lot different, but it can me a difference in pinion angle..................
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Old 05-03-2015, 05:25 PM   #10
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I hadn't even considered the scrub. I think most of my issue stems from the very first time it loaded was wheels off on the axles. Still tho, not a lot of room left on the BMR Adjustable and seeing videos and pictures of it in action on lowered cars, it is waaay further spread than mine.

Another factor is poor working space. Jack stands are fine for brake jobs. But trying to get under to view angles and take measurements suck hard. At the moment I am set at stock length.

A legit alignment rack will allow me to get a better reading after it settles a bit.

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Old 05-03-2015, 05:33 PM   #11
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I thought you had to let the rear end hang loose when you changed the UCA................is that not true! I jacked my car on the chassis, not the rearend. This allowed the rearend to sag which allowed me set the pinion angle. If you jacked your car up by the axles I can understand why the BMR is now to short to allow any adjustments.
What does BMR's instructions say about supporting the chassis vs. the rear end housing?
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Old 05-03-2015, 06:28 PM   #12
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Suspension must be loaded. Differential deflection toques backwards under a load. A negative angle at suspension load puts the pinion downward from the driveshaft.

On load (launch, heavy acceleration) the diff deflects upwards essentially bringing the driveline in line. A positive angle can yield poor results on launch as well as chew seals, bearings and the ring and pinion, itself.

Which is why I loaded it with jacks on the axles. I'll know more Tuesday evening on a proper alignment rack where it will sit on all fours and I can get underneath cleanly.

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Old 05-03-2015, 07:15 PM   #13
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No it isn't, you are loading the chassis inside the scrub line. Granted it's not a lot different, but it can me a difference in pinion angle..................

yeah, I see what you're saying now


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Old 05-04-2015, 02:39 PM   #14
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Put it up today. Got to -1.4

BMR says with a 2pc I'm safe even going -1 to 1. I should be good. Will drive it a bit to see how she goes.

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Old 05-04-2015, 03:06 PM   #15
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So a bit more NVH coming from the driveline - everything from the clunkyness of the trans during clutching and shifting and a bit more rear-end whine. Normal for having all poly bushings. No knocks or anything else moving forward or backward. No unusualness I can hear windows up or down.

As for traction. She hooks up only slightly better after uppers, lowers, panhard, springs. Going into 2nd at redline still breaks the tires loose for a good while but now she does it a LOT straighter than she did before. A lot more control over the vehicle with it but I do need better tires than my stock PZeros.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:14 PM   #16
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Interesting article on pinion angle for 1 and 2 piece drive shafts.
(Using LCA for adjustments but no matter.)
Google-Ergebnis für http://www.cherod.com/mustang/HowTo/LCA%20_adj_files/image002.jpg
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:19 PM   #17
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So a bit more NVH coming from the driveline - everything from the clunkyness of the trans during clutching and shifting and a bit more rear-end whine. Normal for having all poly bushings. No knocks or anything else moving forward or backward. No unusualness I can hear windows up or down.

As for traction. She hooks up only slightly better after uppers, lowers, panhard, springs. Going into 2nd at redline still breaks the tires loose for a good while but now she does it a LOT straighter than she did before. A lot more control over the vehicle with it but I do need better tires than my stock PZeros.
Did you replace the carrier rubber bushing with the BMR EN001?
It's a real pain and does cause a little more NVH, but does hook better and harder even with the Eagle F1's.
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Old 05-04-2015, 09:48 PM   #18
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Interesting article on pinion angle for 1 and 2 piece drive shafts.
(Using LCA for adjustments but no matter.)
Google-Ergebnis für http://www.cherod.com/mustang/HowTo/...s/image002.jpg
Interesting article.
Since my trans angle was about -2.5 degrees negative I set my pinion angle +.5 degree positive. So I will be within the ball park of the universal working angle........and should be about +2 to +2.5 degrees under hard acceleration...........It is a lot smoother than the 2 piece with 0 vibration up to 130mph.
I used my adjustable UCA to set the pinion angle (at ride height) first then again at ride height I adjusted my LCA's, much the same way I have setup 3 and 4 link drag suspensions. I would never attempt to adjust the LCA's first because you are going to load the chassis.
If you notice when you take the stock LCA's out of the chassis the bolts just don't fall out of the LCA's once you have the chassis under load............when you put back the adjustable LCA's you make sure they are both the same length and the bolts will easily slide through the brackets and LCA's. If you then tighten the adjustable LCA's so the bolts going through the brackets are now snug............tighten the jam nuts on the LCA's and you are good to go. One last piece of advice is to draw a line from the flat of the jam nut to the control arm on both ends...this gives you a visual inspection point to make sure nothing has come loose...............inspect them often.
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Old 05-05-2015, 01:39 AM   #19
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I have a 13 track pack with Sportline springs and whiteline adj panhard bar. I will be installing BMR lca's, relo brackets and the adj uca along with the bracket. I also have the stock 2 piece driveshaft... What should I be setting my uca pinion angel to??


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Old 05-05-2015, 09:32 AM   #20
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Are you having any driveline issues now?
What is the driveline angle now?
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Old 05-05-2015, 10:07 AM   #21
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-1.4 which Kelly says is fine for a 2pc. No issues other than the usual settling noises which are a lot less than I expected - a very light creak that can only be heard in my garage from about a foot from the right rear. Fairly certain its my panhard since that was the tightest fit going into the factory mount even with it being greased up. Needs to settle in and get a 2nd shot of grease in about 200 or so miles.

Increase in NVH is there but not horrible. Expected when doing both lower, upper and panhard. More drive line noise, I can hear my 373 a bit more but its just standard whine, nothing wrong with it. More trans noise, too, as that transfers from the driveshaft. Nothing unusual, no whine, but more pronounced. I do have an MGW and opted for the track bushing so my NVH from the trans was up already.

Vehicle feels more stout when weaving at speed. I may plop my LCA to the top hole per Kelly's recommendation for street tires. I still spin like mad on stock PZeros but wheel hop is nonexistent.

Very happy with it. Love the stance. Its not slammed but it looks "proper" now that wheel gap has been reduced. Eibachs are definitely firmer and the car feels more solid overall. Not annoying but its no Cadillac

I am satisfied. Now if it just stops raining in Chicago I will set my LCAs again and whip her around to see if a more horizontal angle helps my street sneakers.

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Old 05-10-2015, 01:14 PM   #22
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