Cooling the Coyote? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 06-03-2015, 01:03 AM   #1
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Cooling the Coyote?

Hello y'all! First of all thanks to all of you for getting me to and through my suspension upgrade (all three rear connection points, shocks /struts, springs), especially Americanmuscle.com for the pricing and service. But, now that suspension is done I'm looking at my engine temps as I live in the SW where i normally see 95*+ days and my baby is a DD. As soon as the temps climbed above 75* my engine temps went from 195*-202* up to 212*-222*. My budget allows one piece at a time every month or two depending.
So, the question is, which cooling mod carries the best bang for the buck? The GT500 fan, the Boss W2O oil cooler, or the Mishimoto performance radiator ( http://www.americanmuscle.com/mishim...or-2005.html)? Eventually all this will be installed but in what order as I'd like to start now before full on summer hits.
My last mod will be an Armageddon TT kit as I live in the same city as the developer and they'll install etc. With that said I am trying to complete most (all but clutch and 1 piece DS) of the support mods first.
Please advise and TIA!

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Old 06-03-2015, 07:04 AM   #2
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I'd do the boss/trackpac oil cooler. Lots of good reviews on it and it really seemed to keep people's engine temps down on the track


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Old 06-03-2015, 08:42 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
I'd do the boss/trackpac oil cooler. Lots of good reviews on it and it really seemed to keep people's engine temps down on the track


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Not sure where you've seen that, but the data i have seen is quite the opposite. Any form of oil / water cooler is woefully inadequate on track, you'll want a dedicated air cooled oil cooler. They also tend to develop leaks.


Seeing as how you will eventually be running turbos, my initial suggestion is a stand alone oil cooler, but you then run into the problem of stacking heat exchangers: Oil cooler / intercooler / condenser / radiator ... you run out of real estate very quickly.

Ive raced my car on track down here in Texas a few times and did not have problems, so im tempted to say you dont really have any issues on a street driven car, even one that will be seeing twin turbos since even the increase in power will only be momentary as you're flooring it.

What year car do you have? Venting the hood and going to a higher percentage of water in your coolant since you, like i, are not really worried about freezing most of the time, will probably be a good and easy way to start without interfering with future mod plans. Could also look into adding something like the CDC gt500 style grille to get a little more pressure in front of the radiator.
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Old 06-03-2015, 08:57 AM   #4
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My car is a '14 GT so the hood is already vented. I guess I should say that i have a great mountain drive that gets the heat up a bit higher than I'd like. As for the real estate up front, that's why i was looking at the above listed combo.
I hadn't really heard of the boss oil cooler leaking, I'll Google that because that would rule that out. As a DD i require reliability.

Thanks for the thoughts guys. ..
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by slimguns View Post
My car is a '14 GT so the hood is already vented. I guess I should say that i have a great mountain drive thatgets the heat up a bit higher than I'd like. As for the real estate up front, that's why i was looking at the above listed combo.
I hadn't really heard of the boas oil cooler leaking, I'll Google that because that would rule that out.

Thanks for the thoughts guys. ..

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Check bossmustangsonline.com they all ditch the factory cooler for some form of setrab stand alone unit. I did some pressure testing on the GT hood compared to the Gt500 hood and we actually got some good data, but i spend more of my time over in the V6 section looking at stuff for my fiance's car.

General discussion on pressure zones


The good thing about an oil cooler though is that it doesnt strictly need air flow, you can stick it somewhere out of the way and just have it act as a heat sink, the coyote just doesnt have a lot of room for something even like that though.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:06 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Voltwings View Post
Not sure where you've seen that, but the data i have seen is quite the opposite. Any form of oil / water cooler is woefully inadequate on track, you'll want a dedicated air cooled oil cooler. They also tend to develop leaks.



This is where I saw that. I try not to just make stuff up 👍🏻

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Every review praises the unit. But I guess they are all a bunch of liars.


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Old 06-03-2015, 09:10 AM   #7
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No no, just application. That unit may drop oil temps, but the research i was doing - road course specific - shows it cannot keep up on a 20-30 minute session. In this case, it very well be more beneficial for him, im just obviously jaded against it since it wont work for my application. Then the issue of leaking, but again, that may come from track use and abuse that a normal street car doesnt see.

However, his main concern was water temps correct? Adding an oil cooler that is cooled by the coolant may not be the best way to lower water temps... Especially if the heat of the turbos is going to be going into the oil as well. I dont think theres a right or wrong answer here, they may all help, just some options may be better than others.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:26 AM   #8
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Options is what I'm looking for. The listed is just what i found so far.
As far as what I'm looking at here, I'm looking at overall engine temps first (both cooling systems), engine reliability/longevity, oil longevity, and of course performance.
Maybe not exactly in that order but close.
I drove like a grandma 85% of the time but when is fun time, i don't want to have to worry about anything other then the road hazards.

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Old 06-03-2015, 09:27 AM   #9
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Oh yeah, I'm not sure yet but I'm looking at autocross as a possibility, just not sure yet.

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Old 06-03-2015, 09:27 AM   #10
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Then i would say cooling the oil, especially with turbos, is your primary concern. Water temps have to get very hot to mess stuff up, but overheated oil breaks down and touches pretty much every important part of your motor. Perhaps your conversation should be with whomever you plan on having tune it, and what they recommend.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:56 AM   #11
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My vote is the GT500 fan. I run one in my daily driver Roushcharged (automatic) '14 GT which never sees track use. Haven't had any cooling issues in my Mojave desert environment. It's a easy drop-in mod.
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Old 06-03-2015, 12:36 PM   #12
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Another way to look at the temperature issue is the coolant.

I drive a TrakPak 14 and have never had an issue with my oil cooler and although I do have a Boss 302 radiator to go along with that shortly after buying the car used, I flushed the cooling system and put www.evanscoolants.com/ in my car. Yes, you need to buy the prep fluid and flush it through the system to remove all of the water and the coolant is more expensive than antifreeze or other coolants..................but it does work and I have used it most of my race cars. It does work and before I'd go out and spend any money on a good cooler it may be worth a look. Although I have yet to put the Mustang on the track I have
spent 14 miles of putting the motor at or in the Redline (in 5th gear) with 0 temperature change.
Running the car at 220 degrees isn't a problem as long as it's not boiling out, remember that this is a pressurized system. The only other issue is that running an automatic and constantly running 220 degrees means the coolant lines for the automatic are going to be running warmer also and the closer you can run then automatic fluid to 180 the better.
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Old 06-12-2015, 11:48 PM   #13
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Put a 170* thermostat in the car. Mine is supercharged and runs around 183* in all conditions. Even racing.


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Old 06-13-2015, 07:02 AM   #14
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Voltwings is correct. Vorshlag had an issue with the Ford oil "cooler" on their 5.0 actually acting as an oil heater, and they kept having to end sessions short to cool the car back down. As an engineer, I would like to mention that from the standpoint of thermodynamics, a lower temp thermostat is only going to be helpful in low intensity racing such as drag, it is pretty unhelpful on a road course (we spend a much larger time than you guys at high engine loads, and often with other cars blocking optimal radiator flow). The reason being is that it does absolutely nothing to change the overall cooling capacity of the system, just causes it to activate earlier. This means that the overall equilibrium temperature at which the temp stops rising does not change, it just takes a little longer to get there.
The only ways to increase cooling capacity is to increase mass airflow across the vanes of the radiator (preferably at a lower temp), increase the surface area of the radiator cooling vanes (allows coolant to cool down quicker due to increased border area), change coolant to something with a higher specific heat (beware that this will keep temps down longer, but will be harder to cool when it gets hot), or tuning tricks like the 3.7 has such as a quick move to max cam overlap coupled with a brief max duty cycle pulse of all injectors without spark to dump fuel through the head and cylinder to pull heat from the system (happens on throttle release, is the source of the 3.7 pop and crackle overrun, is quite effective).
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Old 06-14-2015, 11:50 PM   #15
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The Boss oil cooler is referred to as a Coolant Heater on the Boss 302 forums. Read up on them going into limp mode. I wouldn't take reviews on AM as gospel, there's a lot of praise for Bama tuning on their reviews as well yet ask anyone that's actually fast if they run a Bama tune.

Regardless, If you really want to run cooler, look into something like this: http://www.cjponyparts.com/ford-raci...FY17fgodw1IARg



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Old 06-15-2015, 10:09 AM   #16
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Ford has been using this type of oil cooler for about 20 years. I had one on my SVT Cobra in 97. Did quite a lot of track time and the Silver States Classic with no issues.
I'll have to look at some of the Boss 302 sites. So far the only issue I've seen the possibility of rubbing the hose on front sway bar.
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Old 06-15-2015, 10:51 AM   #17
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Ford has been using this type of oil cooler for about 20 years. I had one on my SVT Cobra in 97. Did quite a lot of track time and the Silver States Classic with no issues.
I'll have to look at some of the Boss 302 sites. So far the only issue I've seen the possibility of rubbing the hose on front sway bar.
Your 97 cobra wasnt turning nearly the RPMs these modern cars are, nor is it as reliant on the oil for functions such as the VVT. Not trying to be argumentative just making observations.
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Old 06-15-2015, 11:05 AM   #18
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Your 97 cobra wasnt turning nearly the RPMs these modern cars are, nor is it as reliant on the oil for functions such as the VVT. Not trying to be argumentative just making observations.
Thanks for qualifying the difference. I had forgotten about the VVT issue.
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