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Old 08-13-2015, 01:11 PM   #1
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Car idling rough p2195 and p2197

About 2 weeks ago I was showing my buddy my exhaust and we decided to start my car up. I have long tube headers with off road x pipe and borla axelbacks. It was a cold start and as soon as he started it he stomped on the gas. After that the car would idle up and down on its own. I figured it would go away on its own bit it never did. It wasn't too bad it was just barely moving up and down. Anyways last week I went to get my boss 302 Intake manifold installed and I got it returned with Bama and at first it was alright and the idling seemed to be fixed. Anyways I live like 100 miles away and it says to drive normally for about 50 miles to get the intake broke into I suppose. I drove on the highway at the speed limit 70mph the whole way. Got home and filled it up and then the car wouldn't start at the gas station I was worried but after several tries it finally started but when it did it wanted to start out and I gave it some gas to keep it going. After that it has been starting just fine but it's back to idling rough to the point where It stalls out if I let it. I called Bama and they said they forgot to include the long tube headers in the tunes so I got the new ones and put them on and it idles a bit better bit it's still rough. I haven't turned it back to stock but I will do that when I get home today and see if it's still doing it. I got the codes p2195 and p2197. Just wanting to know if anyone has had these problems before and If I could get some help to get my car running normal. Please and thank you.

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Old 08-13-2015, 01:15 PM   #2
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I know I have horrible grammar.

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Old 08-13-2015, 01:16 PM   #3
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Also I did some research on the error codes and most say it could be the pcv hose. I have the jlt oil separator I will also inspect that when I get home

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Old 08-13-2015, 01:30 PM   #4
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Sounds like you killed both of the front o2 sensors. This is probably because of your longtube headers. Which ones are they? Oh and I would strongly advise against driving the car until they're replaced.

No tune revision is needed for longtubes FYI. And there's no such thing as breaking in an intake manifold.

Not running the extensions for the front o2's are you?
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Old 08-13-2015, 01:35 PM   #5
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I have the jba longtubes. And the guys at Bama told me they hadn't included the longtubes in the tune so that's what was causing the idling. And extensions for the front o2s? I don't even know I took my car to get the longtunes installed and idk if they were put on or if they are included with the longtubes. So you're saying I just need to replace my 02 sensors?

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Old 08-13-2015, 02:02 PM   #6
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Don't listen to the guys at Bama. There is no tune revision needed for longtubes on these cars. That's a common mistake. The first thing you need to do is determine if the shop that installed the longtubes installed o2 extensions. If so get them off ASAP. Then we'll go from there.

Do the JBA longtubes have the o2's in the 9:00 and 3:00 position?
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Old 08-13-2015, 02:08 PM   #7
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I'm gonna take a look at it when I get home and I'll get back to you. Also I got them installed back in like February and hadn't had any issues until now

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Old 08-13-2015, 04:44 PM   #8
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Alright so the car has the o2 sensors towards the end of the longtubes like you said. At the 3:00 and at 9:00. Are they not supposed to be there?

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Old 08-13-2015, 04:53 PM   #9
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They're supposed to be there but that's the reason for most of the o2 problems out there. Moisture gets trapped in there and and has nowhere to go. One of the reasons the Kooks are the way to go. Some guys have had that hole welded up and had the sensors relocated to the 10:00 and 2:00 position.

I still need to know if you're running the o2 extensions. That's very important.
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Old 08-13-2015, 05:27 PM   #10
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I honestly don't know. I don't think so because I never bought any and I don't think any came with the longtubes and the shop didn't tell me anything about installing extensions on the sensors. Also when I got the longtubes installed I has the catted x pipe and now I have the off road x pipe but idk if that matters.

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Old 08-13-2015, 05:46 PM   #11
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The cats have no bearing on this. These are the upstream o2's. The important ones.
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Old 08-13-2015, 06:28 PM   #12
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So I should just get the 02 sensors replaced? With or without extensions? Are extensions just bad? Also I used the car to go to the store and I noticed the rpms get stuck in at around 1500 rpm in 1st and 2nd gear and won't go down unless I hit the breaks. I forgot to point that out earlier

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:33 PM   #13
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Replacing the O2 sensors should do it. But this will happen again because of the headers.
Never ever use the extensions. Are you running E85? That makes things worst.
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Old 08-13-2015, 06:35 PM   #14
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Nope I'm just running the 93 octane fuel

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---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 PM ----------

So what happens with the headers? Do they burn off the sensors or what?

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:43 PM   #15
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Its definitely your O2's. I have to replace mine often, same exact codes.

Also look into someone else for a tune also. Bc them saying you need a retune for the long tubes is not correct. Main thing the tune does is shut off the rear o2's.

For example. If you go with Lund, on every single one of his tunes he shuts off the rear o2's. Even if you have cats.

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:47 PM   #16
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Its definitely your O2's. I have to replace mine often, same exact codes.

Also look into someone else for a tune also. Bc them saying you need a retune for the long tubes is not correct. Main thing the tune does is shut off the rear o2's.

For example. If you go with Lund, on every single one of his tunes he shuts off the rear o2's. Even if you have cats.

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How often do you replace your 02 sensors? What are the best sensors/brand to get?

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:47 PM   #17
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Also the best way to tell is to do a idle log. Will tell you if the O2's are bad. For future reference

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:50 PM   #18
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How often do you replace your 02 sensors? What are the best sensors/brand to get?

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So far 3 times. Mine is due to e85 and c116.

I use the NTK ones from AM

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:51 PM   #19
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Replacing the O2 sensors should do it. But this will happen again because of the headers.
Never ever use the extensions. Are you running E85? That makes things worst.
Why are extensions bad?

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:52 PM   #20
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So far 3 times. Mine is due to e85 and c116.

I use the NTK ones from AM

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Aren't those like 150 for each one???

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:53 PM   #21
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Aren't those like 150 for each one???

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Yes
They hold up a little better than the factory ones. Which you can get away with.

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:55 PM   #22
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Are they worth it? How often do you replace them?

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Old 08-13-2015, 06:58 PM   #23
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Are they worth it? How often do you replace them?

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For me yes.
For you the factory ones will be plenty. And depends on how much c16 gets ran through the car on top of the e85. Leaded fuels and O2's do not mix.
Roughly 3 times a year.

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Old 08-13-2015, 07:05 PM   #24
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Oh damn. Well considering I don't even know what c16 is I'll assume you have quite a bit of work done to your mustang and I just have bolt ons lol so I guess factory ones will work

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Old 08-13-2015, 07:08 PM   #25
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Don't listen to the guys at Bama. There is no tune revision needed for longtubes on these cars. That's a common mistake. The first thing you need to do is determine if the shop that installed the longtubes installed o2 extensions. If so get them off ASAP. Then we'll go from there.

Do the JBA longtubes have the o2's in the 9:00 and 3:00 position?
I have 02 extenders on mine and commonly get the same P code for my front drivers side 02 sensor. I thought one needed to leave the extenders on

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Old 08-13-2015, 07:10 PM   #26
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I have 02 extenders on mine and commonly get the same P code for my front drivers side 02 sensor. I thought one needed to leave the extenders on

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No take them off. They will end up costing you a motor

Suprised they tuned your car with them on there honestly. I figured MPT would have asked you about that.
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Old 08-13-2015, 07:40 PM   #27
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I have 02 extenders on mine and commonly get the same P code for my front drivers side 02 sensor. I thought one needed to leave the extenders on

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I thought the same. I thought with long tubes you needed extenders so they'll reach??

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Old 08-13-2015, 07:42 PM   #28
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Anyways, back to my topic, I'll buy 02 sensors and get them installed and hopefully they fix my problem. What should I do after I get them installed? Is there anything else I need to do? Drive around a bit or will it just go back to normal??

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Old 08-13-2015, 07:46 PM   #29
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Anyways, back to my topic, I'll buy 02 sensors and get them installed and hopefully they fix my problem. What should I do after I get them installed? Is there anything else I need to do? Drive around a bit or will it just go back to normal??

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That's it besides taking the extensions off

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Old 08-13-2015, 07:51 PM   #30
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That's it besides taking the extensions off

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Alright thank yall very much for yalls input! If I have anything else I'll let yall know!

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Old 08-14-2015, 02:39 AM   #31
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No take them off. They will end up costing you a motor

Suprised they tuned your car with them on there honestly. I figured MPT would have asked you about that.
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That's why we need you here sir. So just to make sure I am understanding you. You're saying I should remove the extenders that connect from the long tubes to my off road x pipe?

If I do that, won't I get check engine light codes? If I may ask, what is the purpose of the extenders? I was under the impression if you had the long tubes headers and off road x pipe you needed the extenders. Wont the car run and idle rough without the o2 extenders?

Rap, MPT never said a word about it. Glad you are here bro.

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Old 08-14-2015, 04:45 AM   #32
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The provided o2 extensions will give false readings and can be detrimental to your motor. They are not needed since the stock harness will reach the o2 sensors just fine. They should never be used.
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Old 08-14-2015, 01:02 PM   #33
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The provided o2 extensions will give false readings and can be detrimental to your motor. They are not needed since the stock harness will reach the o2 sensors just fine. They should never be used.
Okay, great. I will take them off. Does the stock harness have to be connected. My buddy hooked up my long tubes and I don't recall seeing the stock harness. Just so I can learn and understand more why would the 02 extenders be detrimental to the engine. Im on board with what your saying just wanted to understand about it.

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Old 08-14-2015, 05:36 PM   #34
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Okay, great. I will take them off. Does the stock harness have to be connected. My buddy hooked up my long tubes and I don't recall seeing the stock harness. Just so I can learn and understand more why would the 02 extenders be detrimental to the engine. Im on board with what your saying just wanted to understand about it.
The stock wiring harness will reach the front o2's on the GT's when unclipped at the top of the transmission. On a V6 I'm not sure having never worked on one.

The front o2's on these cars are also widebands so it's critical they get the proper info back to the computer. With the crappy supplied extensions supplied by the manufacterers these etensions do not make a good connection.
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Old 08-14-2015, 06:27 PM   #35
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The stock wiring harness will reach the front o2's on the GT's when unclipped at the top of the transmission. On a V6 I'm not sure having never worked on one.

The front o2's on these cars are also widebands so it's critical they get the proper info back to the computer. With the crappy supplied extensions supplied by the manufacterers these etensions do not make a good connection.
My installer buddy is here and there is no way the factory wiring harness will not reach. Any thoughts!

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