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Old 11-05-2015, 08:25 PM   #71
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I'm probably going to take flak for this... but am I the only that finds it odd when people brag about the Camaro "beating" the Mustang in performance and tech specs but always fail to point out they are comparing 6.2L of engine to 5.0L?

It's the same old story for as long as I can recall (90's) The Camaros has always had more displacement than Mustang. Same situation in the LT1/LS1 days versus the 4.6L.
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:35 PM   #72
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They are comparing 6.2L of engine to 5.0L?
There's no replacement for displacement. But also on the freeway at cruise, the Camaro becomes a 3.1L engine!
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Old 11-05-2015, 08:41 PM   #73
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There's no replacement for displacement. But also on the freeway at cruise, the Camaro becomes a 3.1L engine!

Yes there is. That old *** saying goes out the window.


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Old 11-05-2015, 09:32 PM   #74
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The replacement for displacement is...boost. You get more out of a few pounds of that than a few litres of engine will deliver.
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Old 11-06-2015, 12:37 AM   #75
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The replacement for displacement is...boost. You get more out of a few pounds of that than a few litres of engine will deliver.
True. I always told people that my EcoBoost F150 3.5 Liter engine, when under one atmosphere of additional boost (14.7 pounds) was functioning as a 7 liter engine.
It's amazing to me that people complained about the mpg on what was, effectively, a 7 liter engine.
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Old 11-06-2015, 02:36 AM   #76
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Honestly, we won't miss much... just the visceral engine's roar. Electric cars will be faster. Look at the Tesla Model S SEDAN, that can pull a sub 3.0 second 0-60 time (and smoke Hellcats!) and its a heavy 4 door SEDAN for god sakes!!! Or some of the performance hybrids like Porsche 918 Spyder.


Imagine a sports car designed fully from the ground up as an electric performance car!!
Mostly is smokes the hellcat due to it's 4WD. If 2WD, it would have even more traction problems than a 700 HP gas engine, due to inst full torque.
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Old 11-06-2015, 05:38 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by k1DBLITZ View Post
I'm probably going to take flak for this... but am I the only that finds it odd when people brag about the Camaro "beating" the Mustang in performance and tech specs but always fail to point out they are comparing 6.2L of engine to 5.0L?

It's the same old story for as long as I can recall (90's) The Camaros has always had more displacement than Mustang. Same situation in the LT1/LS1 days versus the 4.6L.
Bigger is better.











ain't no way folks are gonna take that the wrong way.......
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:22 AM   #78
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What???

That Crossfire was one ugly car... NO, Don't take the Mustang that direction.
The CROSSFIRE?!

It wasn't just ugly... it was FUGLY!

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Old 11-06-2015, 08:28 AM   #79
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There is so much retardation in this thread it hurts.


1- OP thinking that Ford needs to do ANYTHING at all. They don't. The 2016 Mustang is going to absolutely roflstomp the Camaro sales wise with zero changes.

2- Using the Crossfire in a sentence that does not include: slow, fugly, junk, unreliable, lulzy.

3- The "no replacement for displacement" thing. Person is either an ageing baby boomer who never got with the times or repeating something they heard on the internets secondhand. Lots of "replacement" for displacement.

4- Assuming the general public is going to buy a vehicle based on 1/4 times and road course times. 90% of people looking at a Mustang/Camaro/Challenger are going to buy based on looks or how it drives. Or that they'll even be buying the V8. Remember, we are enthusiasts and our V8 cars are kept going by mass sales of the I4/V6.


and there is more...
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:10 AM   #80
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Ford and GM have been a mainstay of car enthusiasts for more decades than I've been around and although I really don't want to admit it the V8 will probably no longer exist before my lifetime is finished.
It's been interesting so see boosted motors being put in showroom cars and although the motor is currently having issues the GM 2.0L turbo at 136HP per liter is an awesome package and I assume the twin turbo Ford V6 will be in the same category.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:27 AM   #81
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The twin turbo 6 from Ford will very likely be replacing the coyote at some point if cost/economics/EPA has ANYTHING to do with it. And it will have way more power and require a simple aftermarket tune to pump up to god knows what power number.
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Old 11-06-2015, 11:29 AM   #82
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^^^^^ yep
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:44 PM   #83
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There is so much retardation in this thread it hurts.


1- OP thinking that Ford needs to do ANYTHING at all. They don't. The 2016 Mustang is going to absolutely roflstomp the Camaro sales wise with zero changes.
Well while the mustang has finally outsold the Camaro for the first time in 6 years, it could also be a sign that the Chevy guys are holding off until the new 16 Camaro hits the sales floor. The numbers between the two should be interesting this time next year. I don't think the mustang will absolutely roflstomp the Camaro in North American sales, it will definitely be closer then the current numbers show between the two.

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Old 11-06-2015, 06:51 PM   #84
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It will kill the Camaro globally, which is what Ford is going after with the S550.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:03 PM   #85
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It will kill the Camaro globally, which is what Ford is going after with the S550.
You are right on a global scale, I'm referring to a North American sales scale.
I'm guessing that the Eco Boost will account for about 60-75% of Mustang sales in the global market and GM really won't stand a chance against it.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:35 PM   #86
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It will kill the Camaro globally, which is what Ford is going after with the S550.
I have yet to see a single truly positive review of the S550 from Europe. Basically they all say it's a fun car but for the money, it can't compete against the Euro/Japanese competition, especially for the price.

Also interesting from Europe with the Fords being down on power to pass emissions and the GM cars gaining hp.

The EB4 Mustang is rated at 317 hp/320 ft lb and the 5.0 is rated at 416 hp/ 390 ft lb.

The European Camaro turbo 4 is rated at 290 hp/310 ft lb and the V8 will put out 466 hp/tq. Also, both GM cars get a few mpg better than the Ford cars.

The 6 gen Camaro is also the same overall length, 1 inch narrower and 1.5 inches lower than the S550.

Another thing is that North American sales of the 2014 Mustang were 134,082.

The 2015 S550 sold 128,000 ... globally. The first 6 months of availability were really strong and then went down, massively.

I think it's safe to say that the 2016 Camaro will easily outsell the 2016 Mustang and likely have stronger sales globally than Ford will... unless they come up with something in 2017/18 to fix that.
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Old 11-06-2015, 07:51 PM   #87
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I'm just a little disappointed in Ford with the new stang. If it was a tad smaller and lighter it could have really made GM play catch up again.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:53 PM   #88
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... unless they come up with something in 2017/18 to fix that.
A new gen Mustang lol.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:54 PM   #89
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http://blog.caranddriver.com/warning...-living-color/ I don't think the Mustang has Anything to worry about. The Mustang has always been able to win over the Daily Driver purchasers. If you look at the numbers in total sales the Mustang would have to go out of production for 15 years for the Camaro to catch up. I feel the main reason the Camaro is doing good now is the fact they didn't make them for 8 years.


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Old 11-06-2015, 08:01 PM   #90
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http://blog.caranddriver.com/warning...-living-color/ I don't think the Mustang has Anything to worry about. The Mustang has always been able to win over the Daily Driver purchasers. If you look at the numbers in total sales the Mustang would have to go out of production for 15 years for the Camaro to catch up. I feel the main reason the Camaro is doing good now is the fact they didn't make them for 8 years.


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Have you ever driven a 85 to when ever they stopped production Camaro? They lost because of default, hell even Chevy guys were using fox body's as their platform because the Camaro was a POS. I wanted an Iroc for the longest time because it looked cool until my buddy got an 88 or 89, that car/chassis was a joke! It was one of the most uncomfortable and rattling cars I've ever driven.
The new Camaro is anything but and is no comparison to the old junk boxes.
I can't believe I'm giving GM any credit lol.

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Old 11-06-2015, 08:04 PM   #91
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I feel the main reason the Camaro is doing good now is the fact they didn't make them for 8 years.
This ^^^^

It also has to do with the fact that the newer Camaro's are actually decent cars. Where as the old cars, specifically the 4th gen's were utterly crap cars with outstanding powertrains.

The cars were basically opposites of each other. The Mustangs had the advantage of generally better quality and most people thought they looked better. The GM cars were all about the vehicle dynamics, better engine/transmission/suspension and braking, with the rest of the car being an afterthought.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:17 PM   #92
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The sales between the Mustang and Camaro are fairly close now. But when you take into account how many more Mustangs are available on the used market and they can still manage to keep producing as many new ones shows how much more popular the Mustang is. What makes the Mustang special to me is the fact whatever the body style they have managed to allow it to be able to be different things to different people while the Camaro has seemed one dimensional.


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Old 11-07-2015, 10:57 AM   #93
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What makes the Mustang special to me is the fact whatever the body style they have managed to allow it to be able to be different things to different people while the Camaro has seemed one dimensional.
And this is where the Mustang shines...customization and uniqueness. There are so many options when it comes to customizing a Mustang to "make it yours".

Camaros and Vettes tend to be cookie cutter replicas, at least from what I've personally seen on the road.
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:04 PM   #94
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And this is where the Mustang shines...customization and uniqueness. There are so many options when it comes to customizing a Mustang to "make it yours".



Camaros and Vettes tend to be cookie cutter replicas, at least from what I've personally seen on the road.

No. There is a lot more nice vettes and camaros rolling around. 80% of mustangs look like complete a$$, Bc the owner puts every exterior mod they can on. A vette looks perfect stock a mustang looks just as slow as they run stock.


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Old 11-07-2015, 03:10 PM   #95
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No. There is a lot more nice vettes and camaros rolling around. 80% of mustangs look like complete a$$, Bc the owner puts every exterior mod they can on. A vette looks perfect stock a mustang looks just as slow as they run stock.


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Like this??Click image for larger version

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Old 11-07-2015, 03:12 PM   #96
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Like this??Attachment 193360


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Lol that's to the extreme but yes


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Old 11-07-2015, 03:22 PM   #97
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The twin turbo 6 from Ford will very likely be replacing the coyote at some point if cost/economics/EPA has ANYTHING to do with it.
I'd very much like to see that happen sooner rather than later. I would think that the value of the last couple of years of the 5.0 would really be helped if this happened.
Instant classic, anyone?
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:24 PM   #98
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Like this??Attachment 193360


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Notice if you would, that Mustang is still on the showroom floor, not in someone's driveway..........exactly where it SHOULD be!
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Old 11-07-2015, 03:27 PM   #99
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Lol that's to the extreme but yes


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At least they went with a subtle paint choice...lol


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Old 11-07-2015, 04:52 PM   #100
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No. There is a lot more nice vettes and camaros rolling around. 80% of mustangs look like complete a$$, Bc the owner puts every exterior mod they can on. A vette looks perfect stock a mustang looks just as slow as they run stock.


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This is my experience around where I live. Bone stock power wise, maybe some axlebacks and then every visual mod they can buy from AM and then when they get all of them they turn to the **** on ebay.

There are 1 or 2 that did it right on base and one bone stock 2010 Shelby which just looks good as it sits. The rest need to be lit on fire.
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Old 11-07-2015, 04:57 PM   #101
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Everything you just stated is your opinion, not a fact - you seem to have the two confused. Not to mention what you said was irrelevant to my post... so I'm not sure why you quoted me.


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No. There is a lot more nice vettes and camaros rolling around. 80% of mustangs look like complete a$$, Bc the owner puts every exterior mod they can on. A vette looks perfect stock a mustang looks just as slow as they run stock.
.
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Old 11-07-2015, 05:03 PM   #102
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I do agree with him that it's usually better to leave a Vette alone...Click image for larger version

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Old 11-07-2015, 05:37 PM   #103
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Everything you just stated is your opinion, not a fact - you seem to have the two confused. Not to mention what you said was irrelevant to my post... so I'm not sure why you quoted me.
Agreed 100%
Its just opinion.

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Old 11-07-2015, 07:38 PM   #104
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Everything you just stated is your opinion, not a fact - you seem to have the two confused. Not to mention what you said was irrelevant to my post... so I'm not sure why you quoted me.

Well the post about Camaros and corvettes being cookie cutter is opinion as well. Just about any aftermarket park you can buy for a mustang you can find for a corvette or Camaro. Hoods, exhaust, rims, spoilers, etc. but at the end of the day it all comes down to what style one prefers. But these cars arnt Hondas either so they look good stock


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Old 11-07-2015, 07:50 PM   #105
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Everything you just stated is your opinion, not a fact - you seem to have the two confused. Not to mention what you said was irrelevant to my post... so I'm not sure why you quoted me.

Nah it's fact lol.


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