2014 GT with KOOKS headers & full exhaust system - Mustang Evolution

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Old 01-26-2016, 11:53 PM   #1
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2014 GT with KOOKS headers & full exhaust system

Hi everyone, looking forward to being a member on this forum.

I just bought a 2014 GT after many years of admiring the Mustang platform. When I bought it, I knew it had KOOKS long tube headers and mufflers, but soon after I realized it was a complete system including the KOOKS race cat X pipe and all other pieces.

The check engine lights for p0420 and p0430 didn't happen until after I purchased the car of course (dealer probably kept clearing them), at which point I realized everyone with this exhaust system will run into the same issue without having a tuner turn off the rear O2's... no big deal.

I have two questions for my first post. They are as follows:

Question #1

What has become a big deal for me is that this KOOKS system has been leaking fumes at various connections since the first day of ownership. My local muffler shop reset everything and tightened the clamps which made a small improvement, but there are still two noticeable (dripping water) leaks on the first connection after the cats. When I drive the car, I can hear the fluttering/tapping noise of an exhaust leak as well. The muffler shop assured me it was NOT leaking at the head, but after reading the comments about the supplied gaskets KOOKS come with, I'm not so sure because they were probably used in the install.

Is it possible to hear that distinctive tapping noise from a leak downstream as well, or only at the head?

If it is leaking at the head, how much of a pain is it to replace the gaskets with OEM Ford ones? Do I still need to lift the motor to accomplish that?

Does anyone on here have the entire full KOOKS system and not have it leak? What's the secret? My muffler shop said welding it would be the only way to go... but I'd prefer not to scar up such a beautiful and expensive component.

Question #2

I had the car dyno'd as a health check measure at my local dyno shop. Other than the full exhaust system, the car is entirely stock, no intake, and more importantly, no tune (hence the 0420 and 0430 codes). The car did exactly 360hp to the wheels on all 3 runs. AFR was steady at 12.4, gradually trailing down to 12 during the runs. I know dyno results vary and I've seen stock numbers from 350 to 380, but does that seem about right for an untuned 2014 GT with full exhaust and race cats?

I appreciate your advice or insights on this very much.
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:19 AM   #2
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You will def need a tune to capitalize on that beautiful exhaust.

Secondly...how the actual hell did you buy a car from the dealership that has highflow cats and check engine lights? I'm surprised they would sell it to you like that. Not sure what state you are in but I imagine it's illegal to sell a car that cannot pass an emissions test (and yours cannot)

Replacing those gaskets will not be an easy task. I don't know that you need to lift the motor and all that jazz but you will need to get to all the bolts and that will require the right tools and a ton of time and patience on top of some careful manipulation to get the old gaskets out and the new gaskets in (un-damaged)


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Old 01-27-2016, 09:48 AM   #3
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If you just bought it, I'd be going back to the dealer. They deceived you and sold you an emissions-illegal car as well as one with a possibly dangerous exhaust leak.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:35 AM   #4
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That is a $2k exhaust kit but untuned and with factory emissions stuff removed? Illegal as hell. Take it back to the dealer and demand they fix it 100% and also pay for a tune (which is required for exhaust on a Coyote) to get it right. You'll be paying a pretty good amount of labor to get the header gaskets done if you can't DIY and a tuner/tune is about $400-$500 depending on where you go.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:38 AM   #5
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Your next move should be back to the dealer, get them to fix, ( not turn off ) the codes.
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:48 AM   #6
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That is a $2k exhaust kit but untuned and with factory emissions stuff removed? Illegal as hell. Take it back to the dealer and demand they fix it 100% and also pay for a tune (which is required for exhaust on a Coyote) to get it right. You'll be paying a pretty good amount of labor to get the header gaskets done if you can't DIY and a tuner/tune is about $400-$500 depending on where you go.
Lol. You might be able to get them to fix the leaks. They will not be able to correctly fix the codes without swapping back to stock. You will never ever get them to pay for a third party tune. They will swap it all back to stock exhaust before they do that. You might be able to get some money back just on the premise that they misled you and your car won't pass inspection, but if you tell them "pay for my tune" it will never happen.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:00 AM   #7
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Then make them give you a credit I dunno. Only way those codes are going away is with an aftermarket tune.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:20 AM   #8
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good answers....Welcome to Mevo.

We expect you to post pictures in the intro section after ya get this sorted out. Good luck

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Old 01-27-2016, 11:41 AM   #9
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Your car will never ever pass this.......

ADEQ: Air Quality Division: Vehicle Emissions

If this was just an unaffiliated used car lot that sold you the car, then the state laws might be different, but if 'twas a Ford dealer, they were WAY out of bounds selling you a vehicle that can't be certified for emissions testing.
Any lawyer could get your money back with just a phone call, IF you decide to go that way. Driving any car with exhaust leaks is NOT a good way to cruise.
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:34 PM   #10
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I would question a muffler shop and their assessment. If you were to be in an accident due to exhaust fumes, your lawyer would have a field day!
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Old 01-27-2016, 12:48 PM   #11
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IIRC Kooks has an issue with the collector area on Coyote headers which is odd because they are such a good company.


And not sure about a lawyer and fighting with a dealer... A used car dealer will drag it out to try to make you back down because of lawyer fees being more than the exhaust is worth. An actual Ford dealer... You don't even need a lawyer you just contact a regional rep or corporate and watch the hilarity ensue.


I really really doubt that the OP got the car from a Ford dealer tho.


Did I ever mention on this forum that buying a modified sports car from a dealer (especially from a used car dealer) is part of the "what to REALLY not do" section of the Mustang 101 handbook?
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Old 01-27-2016, 01:42 PM   #12
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Bring it to me and I will trade you my stock exhaust for it and do the labor lol, but personally I would buy a tune and just fix the leaks. I do really plan on getting the Kooks exhaust someday though.
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Old 01-27-2016, 07:10 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
You will def need a tune to capitalize on that beautiful exhaust.

Secondly...how the actual hell did you buy a car from the dealership that has highflow cats and check engine lights? I'm surprised they would sell it to you like that. Not sure what state you are in but I imagine it's illegal to sell a car that cannot pass an emissions test (and yours cannot)
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Lots of dealers do that under the table. I was at my buddies house when the Ford dealer called and asked how to clear codes on a trade in car that was throwing those codes.
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:07 AM   #14
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Thanks for the replies. The dealer was an official Chrysler Jeep dealer who has a large used lot. Very sad thats the level of "inspection" they do, and that they could end up killing someone. Perhaps I should call their regional rep and then my lawyer.

I bet the collector area is one of the spots leaking as mentioned. Was curious if anybody has ever had luck getting the KOOKS to seal... As much of a headache that this exhaust system is (figuratively and literally), its amazing how many guys say ill trade you and pay for the swap...
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Old 01-28-2016, 01:29 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Coyote V8 View Post
Thanks for the replies. The dealer was an official Chrysler Jeep dealer who has a large used lot. Very sad thats the level of "inspection" they do, and that they could end up killing someone. Perhaps I should call their regional rep and then my lawyer.



I bet the collector area is one of the spots leaking as mentioned. Was curious if anybody has ever had luck getting the KOOKS to seal... As much of a headache that this exhaust system is (figuratively and literally), its amazing how many guys say ill trade you and pay for the swap...

The kooks is quality stuff. I cant imagine many people having problems with the seal. If I had to guess, I'd say the original owner probably botched the install leading up to these issues you have.

All BS aside. You really need to go to the dealer and speak to the sales manager. Let them look at the car and scan the codes. They cannot sell a car that has emission issues. Doesn't matter if it's a ford dealer or not.

So I would simply tell them they need to address the check engine lights. Then when they say that it's due to the LTs and high flow cats you say okay...guess you need to return it to stock for me (this will cost them 2-3k for ford parts and the labor easily).

Honestly I'd let them do it. Then I'd say that you get to keep the parts for your trouble. Sell them off or keep them for later. Solves your leak problem and check engine light and holds them accountable.


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Old 01-28-2016, 07:08 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
The kooks is quality stuff. I cant imagine many people having problems with the seal. If I had to guess, I'd say the original owner probably botched the install leading up to these issues you have.

All BS aside. You really need to go to the dealer and speak to the sales manager. Let them look at the car and scan the codes. They cannot sell a car that has emission issues. Doesn't matter if it's a ford dealer or not.

So I would simply tell them they need to address the check engine lights. Then when they say that it's due to the LTs and high flow cats you say okay...guess you need to return it to stock for me (this will cost them 2-3k for ford parts and the labor easily).

Honestly I'd let them do it. Then I'd say that you get to keep the parts for your trouble. Sell them off or keep them for later. Solves your leak problem and check engine light and holds them accountable.


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Excellent advice.
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:32 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by oxford5pointoh View Post
The kooks is quality stuff. I cant imagine many people having problems with the seal. If I had to guess, I'd say the original owner probably botched the install leading up to these issues you have.

All BS aside. You really need to go to the dealer and speak to the sales manager. Let them look at the car and scan the codes. They cannot sell a car that has emission issues. Doesn't matter if it's a ford dealer or not.

So I would simply tell them they need to address the check engine lights. Then when they say that it's due to the LTs and high flow cats you say okay...guess you need to return it to stock for me (this will cost them 2-3k for ford parts and the labor easily).

Honestly I'd let them do it. Then I'd say that you get to keep the parts for your trouble. Sell them off or keep them for later. Solves your leak problem and check engine light and holds them accountable.


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Old 01-28-2016, 08:45 AM   #18
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Assuming that you want to keep the Kooks (I would never go back to stock), I would just simply asked the dealer for a credit so you can get a tuner and a tune on your own. SCT tuner is $399 and as someone else mentioned, the actual tune on a dyne would be around $400 - $500 depending on the tuner. That part is simple. I would then find a new muffler shop to look at everything. I just installed a full Kooks system and the connections came together as they should. If you are having issues at the header, you can replace the gasket without lifting the engine but you will probably need a lift to get the car in the air. However, remember you have fantastic headers and with the small amount of attention to a possible leak and a quality tune from a good tuner and you should be in business. I love my headers and to say yours came already installed, you are lucky.

My last note: Once I installed the Kooks headers with the X pipe it does make a lot of noise that could sound like a leak and really isn't. Are you 100% sure what you are smelling is exhaust and not your clutch? Now that is something that I would be attacking the dealer for. See if you can find a quality hotrod/street rod mechanic to take a look at your car for you.
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Old 01-28-2016, 09:00 AM   #19
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Thanks for the replies. The dealer was an official Chrysler Jeep dealer who has a large used lot. Very sad thats the level of "inspection" they do, and that they could end up killing someone. Perhaps I should call their regional rep and then my lawyer.

I bet the collector area is one of the spots leaking as mentioned. Was curious if anybody has ever had luck getting the KOOKS to seal... As much of a headache that this exhaust system is (figuratively and literally), its amazing how many guys say ill trade you and pay for the swap...
Also, remember that even if there is no leak, you now have after market cats that don't burn off all the fuel. The smell could be completely normal and just be coming from your tail pipes and blowing back towards the front of the car and/or getting sucked in by your AC/heater. If you have the windows closed, make sure you have it set to MAX so it isn't sucking in outside air. Your car WILL smell different with high flow or no CATs, that is expected with an after market exhaust system. Just saying…….this may all be normal…..ever been to the end of a car show when they are all leaving? No one has cats and you know it when they are starting up and driving away. I can smell my exhaust all the time when the window is down and there is a breeze from the back of the car. This is normally expected with high-flow cats or cat delete pipes.
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:13 AM   #20
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I want kooks headers too. Post a video of it
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Old 01-28-2016, 10:44 AM   #21
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Also, remember that even if there is no leak, you now have after market cats that don't burn off all the fuel. The smell could be completely normal and just be coming from your tail pipes and blowing back towards the front of the car and/or getting sucked in by your AC/heater. If you have the windows closed, make sure you have it set to MAX so it isn't sucking in outside air. Your car WILL smell different with high flow or no CATs, that is expected with an after market exhaust system. Just saying…….this may all be normal…..ever been to the end of a car show when they are all leaving? No one has cats and you know it when they are starting up and driving away. I can smell my exhaust all the time when the window is down and there is a breeze from the back of the car. This is normally expected with high-flow cats or cat delete pipes.
This is NOT selling me on replacing my stock exhaust. X pipe and axle back is all I guess I should do.
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:45 AM   #22
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This is NOT selling me on replacing my stock exhaust. X pipe and axle back is all I guess I should do.
I have installed a few exhaust systems(worked in a shop for a while), the try-y shorties that come on these cars are pretty respectable but if your building for a lot of power I would do the extra work to put on the headers, otherwise not a real improvement.
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Old 01-28-2016, 03:28 PM   #23
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2014 GT with KOOKS headers & full exhaust system

People throw this around so loosely, "I'm going to call my lawyer". I always suspect people who go to a lawyer enough to have possession of or call them their own, i.e., "my lawyer" have something to hide, are in trouble all the time or are always checking their backsides. Unless you're the CEO of a large business with a legit legal dept. and pay a dedicated salary to an individual with the title of "lawyer".

Maybe I'm missing something. I ain't got no lawyer.

Well, it does give off the notion that you might be a baller, "hey don't **** with me or I'll call my lawyer."


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Old 01-28-2016, 05:00 PM   #24
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You can retain a lawyer for a relatively small fee. Lots of ppl have "my lawyer". A lot more than youd think.

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Old 01-28-2016, 05:22 PM   #25
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Old 01-28-2016, 08:56 PM   #26
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You can retain a lawyer for a relatively small fee. Lots of ppl have "my lawyer". A lot more than youd think.

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So true. Most ppl can't afford a lawyer. I once had a guy say that shiit to me. I reached in my wallet and gave him my attorneys card and said here have ur Lawyer call mine. Guess what didn't happen.


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Old 01-28-2016, 09:42 PM   #27
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So true. Most ppl can't afford a lawyer.

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In that case, one will be appointed for you, heh


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Old 01-28-2016, 09:50 PM   #28
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In that case, one will be appointed for you, heh


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Yea good luck!!!


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Old 01-28-2016, 09:57 PM   #29
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Besides were talking about ppl suing other ppl. One gets an PD if they are charged for a serious crime and can't afford one.


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