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Old 05-19-2016, 06:34 PM   #36
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Put 4:10s in my wife 2006 convertable GT & its a differant car now, Bad *** for a girls car . Besides a bit more sound what is a h - pipe gonna do ? nothing is what its gonna do , MAY need a convertor too but you wont feel any gain with a h pipe and thats fact
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:36 PM   #37
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I went from 2:73 TO 3:55 AND IT MADE A HELL OF A DIFFERANCE , thats what I know for sure
Well, these cars don't have 2.73's so clearly you don't have any experience with the 2011-2014 autos. Or do you?
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:36 PM   #38
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Right on Zombie Slayer
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:37 PM   #39
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I thought his GT already came with an H pipe? Is it to just delete the resonators? Cuz an exhaust shop can do that.


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Old 05-19-2016, 06:42 PM   #40
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The original poster is looking to put an off road H-Pipe on and ditch the cats. There he will see gains. Gears he won't see any gains except a lighter wallet. Been there done that.
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:43 PM   #41
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I thought his GT already came with an H pipe? Is it to just delete the resonators? Cuz an exhaust shop can do that.


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Typically you get an offroad H pipe (cat deletes). Most aftermarket h pipes are also 3" instead of 2.75".

As for the gears, honestly 3.31 is plenty for these cars. Everyone says 3.73s make them faster but they don't. You just have less traction and shift more often. They don't even work well at the strip because you have to shift into 5th. My car came with 3.73s and I wish they were 3.55s or even 3.31s.

Gears were a great option on the 5 speed transmissions, but the MT82 is geared too close to need short gears. If you have a V6 I believe the base gear option is the 2.73 and those are trash, a 3.31 wakes them up nicely. Auto GTs are also ideal with the stock 3.15 or 3.31.
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:46 PM   #42
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As for the gears, honestly 3.31 is plenty for these cars. Everyone says 3.73s make them faster but they don't. You just have less traction and shift more often. They don't even work well at the strip because you have to shift into 5th. My car came with 3.73s and I wish they were 3.55s or even 3.31s.

Gears were a great option on the 5 speed transmissions, but the MT82 is geared too close to need short gears. If you have a V6 I believe the base gear option is the 2.73 and those are trash, a 3.31 wakes them up nicely. Auto GTs are also ideal with the stock 3.15 or 3.31.
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Old 05-19-2016, 06:48 PM   #43
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That makes sense. I am still new to the 5.0 crowd. The S197 and S550 are so different. It is hard to keep up right off the bat. Lol.


I just know with my 2014 3.7 i installed 3.73s and it made a huge difference. Knocked almost half a second off my 1/4 time. I had 3.31s on it previous and it was an Auto. So I wasn't sure if the GTs fell in that same boat.

I will say my 2016 5.0 has the 3.73s and is manual. I have gotten used to it as it is my daily. I will probably never drag race it.


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Old 05-19-2016, 07:05 PM   #44
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Smart Man !! I dont have any thing that new , wish I did, would love a new 5.0....I have a 98 GT & 04 Cobra ....GT is my daily with 3:55s & the Cobra is a Street race / drag strip car , street legal & is a BEAST
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Old 05-19-2016, 07:15 PM   #45
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Thanks. I got really lucky and to be honest, I didn't think I was going to get approved for it.


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Old 05-19-2016, 07:46 PM   #46
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Excellent advice! Not!

If it were a manual then going from a 3.15 to even a 3.31 gearing would be much more improvement than the 8hp or so from an h-pipe. But if he was going there he'd probably opt for 3.73 which is night and day difference.

But auto... Keep the stock ratio. It is better.


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Old 05-19-2016, 07:56 PM   #47
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Thanks for all the input guys. I am doing the Lethal o/r h pipe and a new tune from vmp! I like bama but I think vmp will be a bit more aggressive and combined with a new mid pipe I should be happy. For now.... These cars are limitless. Click image for larger version

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Old 05-19-2016, 08:16 PM   #48
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It already looks good. So keep doing your thing!


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Old 05-19-2016, 08:22 PM   #49
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I agree with you on BAMA Tunes being on the conservative side , I use them but always try to go to my DYNO Guy to really dial it in . Good luck! Have Fun !
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Old 05-19-2016, 11:21 PM   #50
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If it were a manual then going from a 3.15 to even a 3.31 gearing would be much more improvement than the 8hp or so from an h-pipe. But if he was going there he'd probably opt for 3.73 which is night and day difference.

But auto... Keep the stock ratio. It is better.


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The manuals don't come with a 3.15, they come with a 3.31.
3.73s will not make you any faster, they just make the gears go by quicker and you're more likely to spin.
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Old 05-20-2016, 12:33 AM   #51
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The manuals don't come with a 3.15, they come with a 3.31.
3.73s will not make you any faster, they just make the gears go by quicker and you're more likely to spin.

1.) I know it isn't a manual because of the 3.15 gears. Just used that number arbitrarily

2.) When I ran 3.31 on my manual and upgraded to 305/30/20 on the back (28.41") the Mustang became a dog. The 0-60 runs took 5..1-5.2s. Prior to running the big tires I ran 285/35/20 and did the 0-60 in 4.3-4.4s. Then I changed to 3.73 gears and I'm back to 4.3-4.4s. Essentially, these tires are sized and weighted for optimal performance at 450whp+ or so. It's heavier than the 285s. I'm sticking with 305s but am ordering 305/30 instead of 305/35 which saves a couple pounds and it's a shorter tire at 27.41".

With 3.31 and 28.41" tires 4th gear hits a top 147mph and 2nd hits 80mph and 1st hits 53mph.

With 3.73 and 28.41" tires 4th hits 130mph and 2nd hits 71mph and 1st hits 47mph.

It's still too tall for my needs. To maximize acceleration I need essentially to make it shorter still and going with the 27.4" tires will bring me back closer to 4th at 122mph, 2nd at 66mph and 1st at 43mph. This is good because my trap is at 117mph so the closer the 4th gear top speed is to my trap speed the better I can optimize the acceleration in my power band.

It's too simplistic to say gears don't make you faster. It absolutely affects your speed in both top speed and acceleration. You gotta match up the proper gear for what your power level is. Too tall a gear with not enough power then you take forever to get up to speed because it's that much harder to turn the wheels. Too short a gear and too much power you'll burn out all the way thru 6th gear on the way to a top speed of 100mph.

It's all about matching the proper gearing to power level and to sizing the right tires to put the power down.

With 27.41" tires my top speed in 4th is right at 120mph


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Old 05-20-2016, 12:44 AM   #52
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New mod. H pipe or gears

In response to your preference to 3.31 gears I will admit that my fastest 0-60 to date and I hit this once only with CAI, catback and tune, is 4.2s on stock tires which are shorter than the 305s I have now so it effectively made the ratio slightly just slightly shorter than the 3.31 would suggest if compared a 3.31 on the 305 tires.

Just saying that yes and no gears do make cars faster with a caveat. Can't say with absolution that it does not or does make a car faster.


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Old 05-20-2016, 05:00 AM   #53
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I'm saying it. On the autos gears won't make it any faster.
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:09 AM   #54
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Gears can definitely help offset a taller tire, yes. For multiple reasons. They combat the gear reduction from the height, take advantage of extra grip from more sidewall, and help overcome the extra weight. But on stock height tires or even slightly taller ones, 3.73s are too short.
I'm on 27.7" tires and 4th only really wants to go to about 110. I trap at 114-115. The only reason I was able to hold on to 4th in the 1/4 is because my rev limiter was raised with my tune. I was crossing at 7100-7200 on a stock manifold, which I'm sure wasn't helping me very much. A 3.55 would be perfect for my CURRENT setup, but as soon as I added power or a real sticky tire I'd probably be right back to stretching 4th too far.

Oh, and cruising around on the street, I'm in 5th gear already once I'm above 30. I can hit 6th above 45. Entirely too much shifting.

Long story short, gears should be considered a tuning device for quarter mile or offsetting the penalties of taller tires, not as a generic "make your car faster" suggestion. (if you don't have a specific goal like "I want to make 4th gear top out just over my trap speed", don't get gears)
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:36 AM   #55
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off road H pipe

I don't know what OP is hoping to accomplish and far be it from me to tel anybody how to spend their money, I know I've done some stupid $4it before and can't say I won't in the future.
For my money, I can't see these changes making a difference by about .1-.2 on quarter mile time.
Maybe he'll tweak another 15-20 hp.
I'm not willing to go through the hassle of removing them then reinstalling them once a year and I'm not convinced that you won't have to fix the tune from time to time as at some point in time the PCM's going to say I can't live with the O2 sensor shut off anymore!
I do like the smell of uncatalyzed unleaded fuel though!
and again I can't believe that a more aggressive tune is going to increase output by 20 30 hp, unless you are willing to go to the ragged edge or use race fuel or E85.
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:40 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by noldevin View Post
Gears can definitely help offset a taller tire, yes. For multiple reasons. They combat the gear reduction from the height, take advantage of extra grip from more sidewall, and help overcome the extra weight. But on stock height tires or even slightly taller ones, 3.73s are too short.
I'm on 27.7" tires and 4th only really wants to go to about 110. I trap at 114-115. The only reason I was able to hold on to 4th in the 1/4 is because my rev limiter was raised with my tune. I was crossing at 7100-7200 on a stock manifold, which I'm sure wasn't helping me very much. A 3.55 would be perfect for my CURRENT setup, but as soon as I added power or a real sticky tire I'd probably be right back to stretching 4th too far.

Oh, and cruising around on the street, I'm in 5th gear already once I'm above 30. I can hit 6th above 45. Entirely too much shifting.

Long story short, gears should be considered a tuning device for quarter mile or offsetting the penalties of taller tires, not as a generic "make your car faster" suggestion. (if you don't have a specific goal like "I want to make 4th gear top out just over my trap speed", don't get gears)
If you are an auto and you are in 4th at the track your setup is bad. Period. If you are stick shift then carry on.
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Old 05-20-2016, 08:47 AM   #57
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Gears can definitely help offset a taller tire, yes. For multiple reasons. They combat the gear reduction from the height, take advantage of extra grip from more sidewall, and help overcome the extra weight. But on stock height tires or even slightly taller ones, 3.73s are too short.
I'm on 27.7" tires and 4th only really wants to go to about 110. I trap at 114-115. The only reason I was able to hold on to 4th in the 1/4 is because my rev limiter was raised with my tune. I was crossing at 7100-7200 on a stock manifold, which I'm sure wasn't helping me very much. A 3.55 would be perfect for my CURRENT setup, but as soon as I added power or a real sticky tire I'd probably be right back to stretching 4th too far.

Oh, and cruising around on the street, I'm in 5th gear already once I'm above 30. I can hit 6th above 45. Entirely too much shifting.

Long story short, gears should be considered a tuning device for quarter mile or offsetting the penalties of taller tires, not as a generic "make your car faster" suggestion. (if you don't have a specific goal like "I want to make 4th gear top out just over my trap speed", don't get gears)

Ahhh I see why you say 3.73 is too short. I run the Boss Manifold and my rev limit is at 7400rpm so the 3.73 gears on the 27.4" tires works well for me being that top speed in 4th 122-124.

It's strange that you're crossing at 7100-7200rpm and traps at 110 especially running on 27.7" tires. Those are tall azz tires. Currently the 28.41" tires I'm running with the 3.73 gears I put in puts me going 130-131mph at the top of 4th. 3rd gets me up to 102mph. All this is at about 7300-7400rpm.

Anyhow my powerband sweet spot is stretched higher all the way to 7400rpm from about 5000rpm. The taller gears put me below the threshold at about 45-4600rpm everytime I shifted so it did in fact make my car slower since it had to climb another 4-500rpm to get back into the powerband.

But every car is different. Thus gears can make a car faster not by adding power but by allowing a certain setup to make use of the existing power.


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Old 05-20-2016, 09:15 AM   #58
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My main goal is just a little more house power and I thought about gears for better pick up. I love the sound so that's a plus. I think the h pipe and a "better" tune will help me accomplish that. I am not ripping bama because I actually like them but I do hear the difference between a bama tune and a vmp tune is huge. Anyone run both as a comparison?
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Old 05-20-2016, 09:28 AM   #59
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Ahhh I see why you say 3.73 is too short. I run the Boss Manifold and my rev limit is at 7400rpm so the 3.73 gears on the 27.4" tires works well for me being that top speed in 4th 122-124.

It's strange that you're crossing at 7100-7200rpm and traps at 110 especially running on 27.7" tires. Those are tall azz tires. Currently the 28.41" tires I'm running with the 3.73 gears I put in puts me going 130-131mph at the top of 4th. 3rd gets me up to 102mph. All this is at about 7300-7400rpm.
I was trapping at 115. The problem is, stock redline on those tires was about 110. So I was up into the low 7000s where power really falls off on the stock manifold. I was also spinning like crazy since I was on street tires.

I'll be changing back to stock height soon, 285/35 on 10" wheels. So the 3.31s will be even more appealing.
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Old 05-20-2016, 10:30 AM   #60
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I called bama they offer bama and vmp tunes. They said vmp is about 10% more aggressive then the bama named one. I hope it's true
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Old 05-20-2016, 12:47 PM   #61
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I called bama they offer bama and vmp tunes. They said vmp is about 10% more aggressive then the bama named one. I hope it's true
If you're going with anything vmp, just get it from vmp directly IMO.
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Old 05-20-2016, 01:39 PM   #62
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If you're going with anything vmp, just get it from vmp directly IMO.
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:44 PM   #63
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I was trapping at 115. The problem is, stock redline on those tires was about 110. So I was up into the low 7000s where power really falls off on the stock manifold. I was also spinning like crazy since I was on street tires.

I'll be changing back to stock height soon, 285/35 on 10" wheels. So the 3.31s will be even more appealing.

I used Apex Garages speed calculator and came up with the following:

Currently my 305/35/20 on 3.73 gears:

Click image for larger version

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If I go with 305/30/20 which is 27.2":

Click image for larger version

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Your 27.7" on 3.73 with a redline of 7000rpm:

Click image for larger version

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4th should top at 117mph which is cutting it close to redline when you trap 115mph also considering your power band drops off like a cliff after 6500rpm.

Do you shift at 6500/6600 in 1st 2nd and 3rd to keep it in your power band and then ride 4th till finish? Or do you redline it all the gears?

Just asking cuz if you rev it in the first three gears while above 6500 you're actually accelerating at a slower rate or rather your losing acceleration than if you rowed thru the gears and shifting at about 6500 and then ride the fourth gear. Just curious cuz I never actually thought about it till now. I can't try it out now cuz I have the Boss manifold.


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Old 05-23-2016, 10:37 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by DallasStang77 View Post
I used Apex Garages speed calculator and came up with the following:

Currently my 305/35/20 on 3.73 gears:

Attachment 201291

If I go with 305/30/20 which is 27.2":

Attachment 201292

Your 27.7" on 3.73 with a redline of 7000rpm:

Attachment 201293

4th should top at 117mph which is cutting it close to redline when you trap 115mph also considering your power band drops off like a cliff after 6500rpm.

Do you shift at 6500/6600 in 1st 2nd and 3rd to keep it in your power band and then ride 4th till finish? Or do you redline it all the gears?

Just asking cuz if you rev it in the first three gears while above 6500 you're actually accelerating at a slower rate or rather your losing acceleration than if you rowed thru the gears and shifting at about 6500 and then ride the fourth gear. Just curious cuz I never actually thought about it till now. I can't try it out now cuz I have the Boss manifold.
I was riding out all the gears to about 6800-6900. My thinking was that the mechanical advantage of the lower gear outweighs the power loss at that rpm. I could probably make due on the 3.73s with my current setup but I'm planning on going back to a stock-height tire soon and adding more power. I'll definitely have to hit 5th.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:28 AM   #65
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Comparing the auto with the manual, both tuned and....having had both and extensively drag raced them: Manual 3.73 BBP and auto 3.15 BBP, I'd say on a good day the manual has the edge at the track bc you can adjust your launch rpm but, there are lots of ways to get it wrong. The auto is point and shoot but won't 60 foot for **** on the stock converter. There is the better part of a 1/2 second of lost time in the converter. OTOH, the manual car NEEDS rear suspension and shifter help right away to work.

The auto can't be beat on the street but it can be at the track, if you know what you are doing. Throw a converter in the auto and I think the advantage of the manual is instantly lost.

Ideal gear for the auto on an otherwise mechanically unmodified s197 auto? Maybe 3.31, no more. The slight lift in leverage might help you through the soft spot created by the tight-*** converter. Anything more than that and 1st gear is only going to last you a tick past the staging beams. Really not worth the effort when the principal problem lies elsewhere.
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Old 05-23-2016, 11:47 AM   #66
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Comparing the auto with the manual, both tuned and....having had both and extensively drag raced them: Manual 3.73 BBP and auto 3.15 BBP, I'd say on a good day the manual has the edge at the track bc you can adjust your launch rpm but, there are lots of ways to get it wrong. The auto is point and shoot but won't 60 foot for **** on the stock converter. There is the better part of a 1/2 second of lost time in the converter. OTOH, the manual car NEEDS rear suspension and shifter help right away to work.

The auto can't be beat on the street but it can be at the track, if you know what you are doing. Throw a converter in the auto and I think the advantage of the manual is instantly lost.

Ideal gear for the auto on an otherwise mechanically unmodified s197 auto? Maybe 3.31, no more. The slight lift in leverage might help you through the soft spot created by the tight-*** converter. Anything more than that and 1st gear is only going to last you a tick past the staging beams. Really not worth the effort when the principal problem lies elsewhere.
There won't be many drivers that can drive around a properly setup/tuned auto with a similar manual car. Yes throw a converter in there and it'll out 60 and outrun the stick easy. Some setups won't even need an aftermarket converter like a twin screw blower.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:30 PM   #67
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Like I said, having had both and extensively drag raced them...you can do it with the stick but, you have to get it right and...there are at least 4 separate ways to get it wrong between you and the win light, three shifts and a launch.

You can't get around the gnat's-butthole-tight converter with any set of skills, unfortunately.

My auto car was sufficiently coordinated to take out a GT350 at the strip Friday, demonstrating definitively you can't make up for a skill deficit with money.

I've been drag racing for decades so, it wasn't long to figure out the manual when I had it. I do really like the auto I have now though, except for the converter. It's unbeatable on low friction pavement, like one encounters on the road, though.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:35 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
Like I said, having had both and extensively drag raced them...you can do it with the stick but, you have to get it right and...there are at least 4 separate ways to get it wrong between you and the win light, three shifts and a launch.

You can't get around the gnat's-butthole-tight converter with any set of skills, unfortunately.

My auto car was sufficiently coordinated to take out a GT350 at the strip Friday, demonstrating definitively you can't make up for a skill deficit with money.

I've been drag racing for decades so, it wasn't long to figure out the manual when I had it. I do really like the auto I have now though, except for the converter. It's unbeatable on low friction pavement, like one encounters on the road, though.
I know this might be stretching it a bit far, but did Ford stick with the same 6R80 Auto trans or did they alter it at all between the 11-14 and 15-16? (again, I know wrong part of forum). The auto on my 2014 was pretty solid and I never ran into any issues with it. The car was raced and such as well.

I only ask before they "said" they improved the MT82 a bit. Just wanted to see if they worked on both or just one.
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Old 05-23-2016, 01:58 PM   #69
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No need for improvements to the 6R80 after they added select shift in 2013. Honestly, it's the first Ford performance automatic in history that has been worth a damn stock, other than maybe the C6. Ford has an unblemished record of producing the ****tiest automatic transmissions in their performance vehicles. C3, AOD, FMX, for example, all put in "performance cars" and all crap.
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2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:05 PM   #70
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Nice. I do like that they made the auto shifter a tad more appealing and ditched that button on the side of the shifter and went for paddles. Of course, to me, not as good as an ol' manual shifter but idk....cleans it up a little I guess.
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