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Old 05-21-2016, 05:50 AM   #1
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500 HP Goal

As you all know, the 2014 GT has 420 HP stock. I have a 6 speed with the 3.73 gears. It's nice.

But doesn't 500 HP sound amazing?

Growing up in the 80's, if your car had 400 HP, it was a monster. My '71 Cougar XR7, with a worked 351 Cobra Jet, was conservatively making 450 HP.

I want 500.

I have only added an MBRP Racing Series Catback exhaust (+9 HP) and Ford Racing K & N air filter (+1HP?).

That's 430 HP.
Maybe.

In order to have 500 at the crank, I need an 80 HP increase to feel comfortable.

I need suggestions on the best way to achieve that number.

Although I know I can get there easily with nitrous, I'm not really interested in that path.

Also, in your suggestion, please include your manufacturer of choice regarding the part you recommend.

I welcome any and all suggestions.

Thanks in advance!!!!
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Old 05-21-2016, 06:05 AM   #2
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Doubt your exhaust and filter gave you 10hp.

To pick up 80, I imagine you need an intake manifold (Boss, CJ, VJ), full exhaust, and quality tune. Even then you will probably short of 500 at the crank. Probably need cams and head work as well.

If you have the funds, why not do some forced induction? The Coyote loves boost and 500 will be a thing of the past type goal. Plus that whine from a supercharger. πŸ‘πŸΌπŸ‘πŸΌ


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Old 05-21-2016, 07:05 AM   #3
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I doubt the +10 HP also.

I would LOVE to supercharge this motor but the price ticket is out of my range.

I thought a good tune and CAI could bring me close. I guess I'm fooling myself.

The intake manifold is a great suggestion. The headers and H pipe swap are also on point.

Thanks 0440!

I'm hoping to find a way to get the 80 in under $1500.

Possible?
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Old 05-21-2016, 07:11 AM   #4
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100 shot of giggle gas (nitrous) and a nitrous tune will definitely get you there around that price point.

Most people cringe when they hear that N word though. Not sure if that's something you would consider or not? It would be an easy way to meet your goal, though.




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Old 05-21-2016, 08:27 AM   #5
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Boost vs other mods

If you go to brenspeed website, they have various power packs.
There is a CJ 519 that supposedly gives 519 HP.
Don't know how they determine that as it is not at rear wheels, but any how
it cost 3995
You can find a super charger for 5600 (stage3 motorsports) that'll give you 575 - 600, again, not sure if it is rear wheel or crank hp and again, not sure if they do it on a stationary dyno how that equates but enough about that.
Anyhow A CJ manifold and a set of quality long tubes are gonna set you back at least 3k, so your halfway there to a supercharger.
Then comes all the trade offs in doing that.
It really depends on what your goals are if you are looking to blast the hellcats in the quarter mile or you just want to say I make X horsepower. I started this approach with the idea that I had a 12 sec street machine, completely legal.
So my first pass was a 13.4, second pass 13.1. I managed to turn a 12.9 in street tires and no mods! That may not sound impressive, but to my experience 13 flat is about what you can hope for bone stock street tires. I've watch maybe 50 11-16 5 liters at three different tracks and I've seen 14 sec (convertable) to 12.8. But 13. flat with no mods is where most of them fall. So 500 hp N/A is gonna be between 3 and 4 grand, bottom line. You can get into a supercharger for another 2000 grand, All estimates based on you doing it. Figure 100 - 1200 for somebody else to do it in either case as you are looking at about 10-12 hours for either set of mods at about 100 bucs an hour. I myself am leaning to the supercharger, probably centrifigal and then I need bigger D/R's. We haven't talked about hooking up that 500 hp!
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Old 05-21-2016, 08:44 AM   #6
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Why so caught up in a dyno number? Do full exhaust and a good tune an then work on suspension. You might only be at 440 to the wheels or whatever, but I bet you'll run way faster times than someone trying to hit a 500 dyno number and neglecting the setup as a whole.

Seen plenty of cars making "less power" just completely rock the car in the other lane because it was setup better.
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:25 AM   #7
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Reg - Very thorough, logical and sensible reply!
You hit it on the head. My goal is to be able to say "I make 500 HP." I guess that is kinda lame. Just never been able to say that.
Your price list, including labor, sounds very accurate.
Your 12 second stock 1/4 runs are VERY impressive. Thanks again for the info!!!

Scott - you're completely correct. The smartest approach sounds like full exhaust and a tune. I understand the concept of proper setup, with parts that complement each other. That is truly more important than a "horsepower number." Good advice.
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:28 AM   #8
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500 hp

My reply is so thorough because I'm researching all these options as well and trying to decide if they are worth it!
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Old 05-21-2016, 09:36 AM   #9
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See...you don't really have 420 horse...more like 370 at the tires, which is what matters. BUT, let me it it this way...I took a stock motor, stock exhaust, stock intake 3.73 MT82 car with a tune and tire into the 11s...that sound good to you? That's putting it down and that is what matters.

You ain't gonna hit 500 real hp by tacking on a few bolt ons....
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Old 05-21-2016, 10:05 AM   #10
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Upgrade your suspension to handle the 420 crank you got. My car is stupid fast in my opinion and it didn't feel that way before I did the suspension, lighter wheels, better tires. I do not have a "full exhaust" as in I still have my cats and I do not have a tune. I bet I still mop the floor with a tuned no cat car on stock suspension.

As everyone else has said. Quit worrying about a number unless it's a track time. These cars don't leave a ton of hp on the table like they did back in the days of CAI and a chip. Lol
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Old 05-21-2016, 10:21 AM   #11
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Hah, my old '14 s197 waxed a brand new GT350 at the dragstrip last night, automatic trans and all, all motor, no spray, stock everything with rear CAs and a tire. I even held off a supercharged ZR1 until 1/2 track. It ain't always what you got, it's how you use it.
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Old 05-21-2016, 10:24 AM   #12
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I jus ran a best 12.17 at a high 115 at milan in 70 degrees on a track people were saying wasnt prepped well. I also have to play with my konis adjustability next time to see what the car likes best. I have 275 street comps in back, some bmr suspension (upper snd lower mounts and control arms, panhard) koni yellow struts and shocks, and ebaich springs then a tune and offroad midpipe. Rest exhaust i just cut resonator and muff out. Go with suspension first i am glad i did

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Old 05-21-2016, 10:40 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
You ain't gonna hit 500 real hp by tacking on a few bolt ons....
You can hit 500+ with bolt-ons, but it's never going to be the best use of that extra power. I think it'd be better to fine-tune your rig to reach whatever standards you set for it, be it 1/4 mile, street racing, etc, than add heaps of HP just for the "street cred" but if thats all your interested in, something like the procharger might be an option. It'll definitely improve the performance you'd see every time you drive it. It's just pretty expensive.

To OP: You could look into getting a procharger for ~$6000 that's bolt-on. That'll put it (according to them) between 500-600 somewhere. I think they claim a 180 hp increase or something. A bit pricier but its probably worth the money, since I've heard only good things about the procharger s/c that responds well at all RPM. I know you said your budget is well below that, but if you want a single massive increase in HP, it might be worth saving for a bit longer and seeing if you could afford one. Since it's a bolt-on, you could save on installation cost too.

Regardless of what you choose to do, if it gives you a smile on your face at the end of the day and every time you drive it, you're doing it right!
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Old 05-21-2016, 11:39 AM   #14
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You are definitely going to have to rev the **** out of the motor...plus full on attack exhaust and intake mods, at the very least. The revs will be more than the valvetrain will reliably take, unmodified, to hit 500 wheel.

500 crank? Who cares what the motor has at the crank?
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Old 05-21-2016, 12:51 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
500 crank? Who cares what the motor has at the crank?
This ^^^^^^

1 thing to learn in the car world i no one cares about crank horsepower. You can say it makes 500 horsepower but no dyno sheet will show that. All that matters is what power is put to the tire.
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Old 05-21-2016, 02:47 PM   #16
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I dynoed 423whp right now with:

AirAid CAI
Boss Manifold
Cat delete pipes
Catback exhaust
BAMA Race Tune

Given 15% parasitic loss that 2.4hp shy of 500hp at crank.


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Old 05-21-2016, 02:49 PM   #17
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This ^^^^^^



1 thing to learn in the car world i no one cares about crank horsepower. You can say it makes 500 horsepower but no dyno sheet will show that. All that matters is what power is put to the tire.

It's a dick measuring thing or a graded bell curve thing so ppl can feel extra better lol


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Old 05-21-2016, 03:26 PM   #18
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It's a dick measuring thing or a graded bell curve thing so ppl can feel extra better lol


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Go to any GT500 cars and coffee and it'll be all middle aged dudes with dyno sheets. Show up with one with a Watts link or a BMR k member and watch the head scratching commence.

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Old 05-21-2016, 03:35 PM   #19
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Go to any GT500 cars and coffee and it'll be all middle aged dudes with dyno sheets. Show up with one with a Watts link or a BMR k member and watch the head scratching commence.

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Not even dyno sheets. They just state their cars BHP.

I know someone that got a 08 GT500 and he was comparing the stock 500 horsepower against our other friend's 712whp 2.9 Whippled Cobra.... Saying he was only 200 behind. We were all like "nah, you aren't close" lol.

Even then, 500 horsepower from a coyote is roughly 440whp, which is doable. That is assuming 12%, which is about normal for these cars.
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Old 05-21-2016, 04:17 PM   #20
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Suspension setup and wider rear tires will go a long way, toss the 235/245s to the V6 owners or keep as a winter set.

You'll be tracking faster and your drivetrain won't as strained as the guy with a Procharger on stock suspension.


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Old 05-21-2016, 05:15 PM   #21
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500 HP Goal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
Not even dyno sheets. They just state their cars BHP.

I know someone that got a 08 GT500 and he was comparing the stock 500 horsepower against our other friend's 712whp 2.9 Whippled Cobra.... Saying he was only 200 behind. We were all like "nah, you aren't close" lol.

Even then, 500 horsepower from a coyote is roughly 440whp, which is doable. That is assuming 12%, which is about normal for these cars.

Hell honestly if you want engine HP then just use some arbitrary parasitic loss quotient like 25% and you're done after adding a catback exhaust for like 3hp.

370whp / .75 = 493.33HP

Hmmm maybe 26% parasitic loss...

370 / .74 = 500HP

Done!

Wait so our cars have only 12% loss? So that means my car has...

423 / .88 = ONLY 480BHP?!?!

Time for an electric turbo...


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Old 05-21-2016, 05:27 PM   #22
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Wait so our cars have only 12% loss? So that means my car has...
From what i've seen its around 12-15%. Auto being near 15, while manual being a bit lower. But its just a rough estimate anyway.
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:35 PM   #23
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From what i've seen its around 12-15%. Auto being near 15, while manual being a bit lower. But its just a rough estimate anyway.
Yeah because the converter never fully locks up 100%. Although a bolt on/tune automatic Coyote will beat the living **** out of its manual counterpart at the track, even if it dynos less. Again, 1/4 mile or laptime is the real measure of performance, not some HP number that likely will read differently on separate dynos. Run it and see what it does or sell it and buy a Toyota.
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Old 05-21-2016, 05:53 PM   #24
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500 HP Goal

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Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
Yeah because the converter never fully locks up 100%. Although a bolt on/tune automatic Coyote will beat the living **** out of its manual counterpart at the track, even if it dynos less. Again, 1/4 mile or laptime is the real measure of performance, not some HP number that likely will read differently on separate dynos. Run it and see what it does or sell it and buy a Toyota.

Damnit Scotty... Are you also telling me that my turbo whistler is just as useless as an engine HP reading???

But I swear to you when the whistle creates a sonic boom at the butt of my Stang I could feel the force propel my car forward like a raging bull tearing through the fabric of space and time........ πŸ˜•

Also, the liquified dilithium crystal booster I add to the fuel tank...... That has to have at least 200hp right??? πŸ˜‹

Maybe I should get a Prius. Now just how many HP does it have...?

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Old 05-21-2016, 06:23 PM   #25
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Run it and see what it does or sell it and buy a Toyota.
Or a Chevy Spark...........
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Old 05-21-2016, 06:53 PM   #26
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Or a Chevy Spark...........
Nah, only a moron would buy a GM.

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Old 05-22-2016, 06:21 PM   #27
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I get it now.

All good points.

So:

Forget the crank, jack the suspension, RWHP is the only thing that matters and none of it means I'm well endowed.

Thanks!

(All kidding aside, you guys are a wealth of knowledge!!!)
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Old 05-22-2016, 07:19 PM   #28
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No TIMESLIPS are what matters. I've seen cars making a lot less power than what they are racing just demolish it. Setup, driver mod, and yes power.

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Old 05-23-2016, 12:33 AM   #29
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To hit 500hp at the crank with a N/A build, you'll need at least the following:

-Cobra Jet / larger Intake Manifold
-Cobra Jet / larger Throttle Body
-Cobra Jet / larger CAI
-Camshafts
-Long Tube Headers + Catback System
-Dyno Tune

But Scotty brings the most valid point to this conversation, that it's all about the overall build of the car, not the actual dyno numbers.
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Old 05-23-2016, 10:41 AM   #30
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500 crank is pretty easy tbh. You shouldn't need cams or head work.
I'm at 406 wheel which is about 450 crank. All I have is a CAI, offroad H, and tune.
Headers and a cobrajet intake would probably put me up to 500 crank.
Add cams and head work and you're really close to 500 wheel.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:38 PM   #31
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Op, what are you going to use the car for? I agree with what everyone's saying here except for me, I would prefer to make the car handle better for turns as I could care less about quarter mile.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:48 PM   #32
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Op, what are you going to use the car for? I agree with what everyone's saying here except for me, I would prefer to make the car handle better for turns as I could care less about quarter mile.
I'm with you, building my car for street/road course, and it's way more fun than the quarter mile IMO
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:56 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TRMN8ER View Post
To hit 500hp at the crank with a N/A build, you'll need at least the following:

-Cobra Jet / larger Intake Manifold
-Cobra Jet / larger Throttle Body
-Cobra Jet / larger CAI
-Camshafts
-Long Tube Headers + Catback System
-Dyno Tune

But Scotty brings the most valid point to this conversation, that it's all about the overall build of the car, not the actual dyno numbers.
500 at the wheels will need that. 500 at the crank you can forget the cams.
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:36 PM   #34
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Op, what are you going to use the car for? I agree with what everyone's saying here except for me, I would prefer to make the car handle better for turns as I could care less about quarter mile.
As a 50 year old guy, I'm at the point where I'm taking count of some of the personal goals I've achieved in life

315 pound bench press? Nope.
405 Parallel squat? Yup
Break a 6 min. mile? Yup
Black Belt? Yup
Gone faster than 150? Nope
Owned a car with 500 HP? NOPE
(Sadly, the full list has a lot more "nopes" than "yups" and is probably NSFW)

I understand that handling mods would make the car utilize the current HP better but.......I'VE NEVER HAD A CAR WITH 500 HP.

Make sense?
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Old 05-23-2016, 03:38 PM   #35
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500 at the wheels will need that. 500 at the crank you can forget the cams.
That makes sense.

Thanks!
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