Torque Converter question - Mustang Evolution

Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them here!
Old 08-03-2016, 10:37 AM   #1
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
Torque Converter question

I'm trying to understand the idea behind a TC and it seems that may be a hopeless cause. So maybe everyone here can just help with my goal and if a TC is the correct option. I have a 2011 A6. I go to the track about 6-8 times per year. This is my 4th Mustang, only second GT. I had an 05 V6 with a PD SC and loved the feel of the low end torque. It had 4.10s and was a blast taking off. I only raced it very sparingly, but daily driving was really fun. This 2011 is great up high in the RPMs and in the power band, but it just seems like taking off the RPMs climb, but not much happens until it gets over 2-3K. Almost like it's "spooling" up?
My last GT was an 06 5 speed with 3.73 gears and also would snap your neck at takeoff. Is the 5.0 or the auto that makes this more of a wind up and wait feel? Would a TC help this? I know everyone says that gears are not going to help and I get that. I just wondered if the TC would help or maybe even a different tune? sorry if I went on or didn't include enough info, but I'd just like it to be a little more responsive off the line. Thanks in advance.
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-03-2016, 10:52 AM   #2
Registered Member
Regular
 
bluey lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Reno
Region: Nevada
Posts: 21
I saw that the ford proclaimed tune gives up to 60 lbs of torque from 1500 rpms. I always thought that would be a good noticeable difference. If by TC you mean turbo I can't comment on that as I haven't had one on this motor. But from experience I think you will not feel any difference in that low of a rpm. Screw type supercharger will do it though.


Sent from my iPhone using Mustang Evolution
bluey lewis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 10:59 AM   #3
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
Good point, I sued too many acronyms and mixed my thoughts at the same time. I'm actually talking about a torque converter. I'm thinking the whole winding up feel, has to do with the stock converter and from what I've read, the TC should help with that. But I'm not near smart enough to fully understand the function of a TC. My bad. Oh, and I have currently, a Bama tune and have used a Steeda tune in the past. Both great tunes, but I know there are some more things that can be done with the auto and sometimes there are tuners who are a little more skilled with that. I just don't feel like this is totally a tune issue though. Everything I have read about the torque converter says that it feels like you changed the gearing. Which is the feel I'm going for. I know one guy who has one on his Charger and hates it, so that is something has me worried. He can't explain why he hates it, but he said he would never do it again unless it was a drag only car.
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 08-03-2016, 12:34 PM   #4
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
This is a relatively small displacement 7000 rpm high compression V8 with some pretty aggressive cam timing. The problem with the auto is the gnat's bunghole converter. When it comes off the initial torque multiplication, the car just sags and falls on its face because there ain't much going on at 1800-2000 rpm. The stock tune on the 11-12 cars is also total ****. The Procal tune from Ford put my fully loaded BBP 2012 into the 11s but, any decent tune from a reputable company transforms these cars, particularly the early ones. With an auto, I'd choose one of the recommended auto tuners like VMP or Mike Rousch.

The converter is a very serious answer though. It allows the car to flash higher and hit way harder out of the hole. Traction is your limiting factor there, though.

I'm still on the stock converter...I push through it with more power, using nitrous. It's still wasting time up front at the dragstrip due to the converter but, not as bad on te jug.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 01:55 PM   #5
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
Ok, so a TC WOULD help that? Are there drive-ability issues with a mild TC? I've had some 12.9's at a track up north of me about an hour or so away, but my local track I've only gotten 13.01. Think a VMP tune would fix that?
I've seriously thought about Nitrous. It would most definitely help my track issues, but not so much just driving around. That's why I was hoping a new converter would help but not make driving daily a challenge.
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 02:14 PM   #6
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
Definitely. Modern lockup torque converters use clutches instead of just flinging fluid around so, driveability issues are less and they don't just burn up transmission fluid like they used to in the bad old days.

I did 12.4 n/a on a VMP tune on my stock 2014. The only thing holding off the 11s was the torque converter. I could barely 60 foot in under 2.0. With a 100 shot, it's 11.4, with a 1.7 60 foot. I'm going for 150 next time to shoot for 10s on a stock car.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 02:53 PM   #7
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
Oh thank God, I thought it was just me. I cannot get anything less than a 2.0x 60 ft time! A lousy driver and convertible weight is slowing me down, but will definitely look into the converter. Thanks!
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-03-2016, 06:10 PM   #8
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
Yep and, that is on a slick tire that gave me 1.6 60 foot times on my 2012 manual 3.73 car.

Best I did on the auto was 1.9.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 06:27 AM   #9
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
ET's on stock converter

You say you are from youngstown, I'm in western PA. What tracks have you run?
Was the 13.01 at Quaker City? Stock tires and no tune the best I could do there was a 13.02.
My best time on street tires was a 12.9 and I don't see many mustangs doing better than that stock. Please note that track prep can play a role as well.
Since then I've added Short tube headers, pro-cal tune, drag radials and a set of BMR LCA's to address wheel hop primarily. My best time with all that was 12.5 at the same track (Keystone Raceway Park) that I ran the 12.9 at prior to mods, that was 2015.
Over the winter I added an aluminum drive shaft and a Pypes X-pipe. I ran a 12.4 at Quaker City and was running 12.5's all night. Waiting till September to go back and try when the temps are better. It never got below 75 that night.
5lHO, what track and temp did you turn your 11.91 @?
I suspect since you are in the great white north you benefited from some lower temps than we get.
Thinking about VMP as well, because of the shift points. Want to see what it does with the other mods and decent temps before I go with a different tune.
Then I'll decide if I go with just a CJ manifold or supercharge it.
The boss mani gives up too much torque down low and its hp gains are in the higher rpm ranges that your probably not going to be able to take advantage of.
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 07:25 AM   #10
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
We don't leave our igloos to race up here, really....

It was a mineshaft air day at the end of the season but, not so cold that the concrete track turned into a skating rink. DA was about -1500 that evening. I had dozens of passes backing that up within a percent or two though, on far less good air days. So, practice, traction and air all came together.

I do love the spray on this motor and I've had a supercharged version, as that's what I did to the '12 before it died. The spray is a simple, non-invasive way to add a ton of efficient power at the strip and still feel confident taking the car on a 5000 mile road trip and daily driving it. I've shot hundreds of pounds of dope through cars and nothing is a more efficient power adder, at streetable levels.

A CJ is a $2000 change when all is said and done. I'd agree it's the only manifold worth doing but, you really need supporting mods and a willingness to race the motor much higher in the rpm range than I'm willing to.

Supercharging is great too, relatively easy install, very high performance. It's just really expensive these days.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 07:57 AM   #11
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
Yup, the 13.01 is at Quaker. Track prep is usually an issue as well as racing uphill! I ran 12.9s all day at Thompson earlier in the year. I have a tune, UCA and LCA's and on some street tires. I guess what I'm looking for is to improve my track time, but also liven the car up down low on the street. Nothing crazy, but I miss that feeling of low end that I had on my other cars. Up in the power band this car is great. Down low, not as much. That's why I was hoping the converter may help both?
I am seriously considering Nitrous, but it won't help for fun on the street. It'll definitely help at the track!
Reg, what color is your Mustang? Do you go to Quaker on Wednesday nights at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by REG View Post
You say you are from youngstown, I'm in western PA. What tracks have you run?
Was the 13.01 at Quaker City? Stock tires and no tune the best I could do there was a 13.02.
My best time on street tires was a 12.9 and I don't see many mustangs doing better than that stock. Please note that track prep can play a role as well.
Since then I've added Short tube headers, pro-cal tune, drag radials and a set of BMR LCA's to address wheel hop primarily. My best time with all that was 12.5 at the same track (Keystone Raceway Park) that I ran the 12.9 at prior to mods, that was 2015.
Over the winter I added an aluminum drive shaft and a Pypes X-pipe. I ran a 12.4 at Quaker City and was running 12.5's all night. Waiting till September to go back and try when the temps are better. It never got below 75 that night.
5lHO, what track and temp did you turn your 11.91 @?
I suspect since you are in the great white north you benefited from some lower temps than we get.
Thinking about VMP as well, because of the shift points. Want to see what it does with the other mods and decent temps before I go with a different tune.
Then I'll decide if I go with just a CJ manifold or supercharge it.
The boss mani gives up too much torque down low and its hp gains are in the higher rpm ranges that your probably not going to be able to take advantage of.
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 08:35 AM   #12
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
Here's the thing....you can liven up the "feel down low" and actually go slower, as tires won't hold traction on street surfaces. This is the mistake some make when upping the rear gear on the auto. Most of the time, the auto will outshoot the stick on the street because of this, and not having to deal with wheelhop.

You aren't going to turn this into a 7L LSX motor, there just isn't the displacement for that kind of torquey feel and the cam timing is too aggressive for that. You can perk up the bottom a bit with a tune definitely. This latest statement suggests the earlier idea of doing a CJ isn't what you are looking for. You might want to save up and go with a Magnuson, Edelbrock or 2.3 Whipple setup if you are looking for that low end grunt and fun. That's a sure cure.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 09:34 AM   #13
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
REG

Yes, Was there on a saturday in May, got one pass in befor the rain hit, ran a 12.7
Was there late May on wednesday that when I turned a 12.4
I have a candy red 2013, with the DR's mounted on a pair of bullitt anthracites.
Sometimes you'll seem me with the Beaver county contigent.
That's the Kid with the black 04 GT with the still 4.6 plate and the orange camaro ss that's supercharged. We are the guys tossing everything from our trunks on the ground.
I'm looking at September 7th as my next trip, but might wait till T N t on the 9th.
Just looking at accuweather, but those 30 - 40 day projections are kind of iffy.
It's just been to hot lately, still in the 80's at 9 pm just not conducive to running good time.
5LHO I'm shying away from a converter just because I'd like to continue to use it as a daily driver and city driving in hot weather does not sound like something a car with a high stall converter would like.
Was thinking about either a vortek or Rousch supercharger, though I think the vortec might spin up a little too soon and make it harder to hook up at launch.
Like I said I want to see where I'm at in early September and if I can run a 12.2 I might go with another tune and CJ intake.
Edelbrock was supposed to be coming out with a new intake but I don't see where its been release yet.
Other wise I'll probably go with the rousch and install over the winter
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2016, 02:31 PM   #14
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
You don't get the SC experience if you think the Vortech will spin up too soon. It's much easier to make traction with a centrifugal setup and it has all it's power stacked up high in the rev range. It's the positive displacement blowers like the Roush, VMP, Whipple, etc. that have troubles with traction out of the hole. This is because they move a fixed volume of air into the intake manifold, regardless of rpm; it just happens more often at higher rpm.

You also don't get that modern torque converters aren't like the old fluid coupling types. They are fine for daily use. I wouldn't go 5C on a daily but anything 4C and down are totally fine for tip-in and day-to-day. The high stall has little effect unless your foot is heavy.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 06:23 AM   #15
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
SC and SPRAY

Yea, had it backwards, but you got my point.
A lot of people nervous about NOx, everybody tells me oh no supercharging is safer.
The CJ mani, Brennspeed sells a package for 1750, then another hundred or so for a tune so yes, was looking at 2k
I was looking at a 5C converter, everything I read indicates that 3200-3400 is the optimum for this engine/vehicle and yes its not like the older fluid coupling so the heat is somewhat less, but still on a 90 degree day in traffic, I get a little nervous and around town I'm not a heavy foot, so no race up and the nitrous bottle would be empty if I went that way.
I did see a kit that was a stealth set up. The bottle comes in a bag, route your lines so no one sees it, put your arming button in the console, tke it out when not in use.
Some many options, so little time.
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 07:26 AM   #16
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
I keep trying to explain things to you but you keep coming back with the same misunderstandings and some new ones.

N2O is not unsafe. It's the easiest, cleanest and cheapest way to add significant power to an engine. True, it's not really street friendly as, for optimum performance, you need the system on, the bottle heated to proper pressure, tune loaded, etc. It's way easier on the engine compared to SC, because it isn't stressing the motor at all when it's off. It's not that there is no risk but, that's the case with any power adder and you can manage it by being smart, experienced and not getting greedy. You can completely stealth any kit, like I did, mounting the bottle under the trunk floor and making sure every wire and line was hidden with split loom.

A 5C converter is too much for any street tire. You look at the stall speed and forget the torque multiplication of a torque converter. So, it's not like 32-3400 in a manual car. It's putting a lot more pressure on the tires and you'll blow them off unless they are drag radials and maybe even then. You add a supercharger to that and you'll be boiling tires through 4th gear. That said, a modern converter under 5C isn't going to significantly raise trans temps in traffic. It's not like the old days, like I said.

You really need to make a clear decision on direction and goals and make sure the chosen parts compliment each other. Want to stay N/A? Torque converter it up, for sure. Plans for S/C down the road? Maybe hold off or go with a lighter stall converter, especially if a PD blower is in the plan. Maybe for now, just get another tune and explain to the tuner you are really looking for a strong torque boost off the bottom. You could even (wait for the screams of the outraged here), raise the rear gearing a little, to say, 3.31, for a little extra feeling of jump off the line without too much traction penalty.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 08:01 AM   #17
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
OK, so that's what I have been thinking. Go with a little less of a stall, in case I go SC later (I think I'd go PD with that, it's just my personal preference.) If I go with a stall converter, does it give you the "feel" of changing gears? I had thought of going with some 3.31s, but I figured there wouldn't be much of a change in the feel.
Also, if I went with a lighter stall converter, N2O is still a good option? I had a buddy just install a kit and it is really nice. ?That way, the TC helps the feel on the street, helps me at the track and the nitrous really helps at the track.
I'm trying to plan this out, financially and not make mistakes along the way. Plus I'm really looking for that low end feel on the street. Not street racing mind you, just the feel of the low end torque that I miss.
Thanks everyone for your input, I really do appreciate it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
I keep trying to explain things to you but you keep coming back with the same misunderstandings and some new ones.

N2O is not unsafe. It's the easiest, cleanest and cheapest way to add significant power to an engine. True, it's not really street friendly as, for optimum performance, you need the system on, the bottle heated to proper pressure, tune loaded, etc. It's way easier on the engine compared to SC, because it isn't stressing the motor at all when it's off. It's not that there is no risk but, that's the case with any power adder and you can manage it by being smart, experienced and not getting greedy. You can completely stealth any kit, like I did, mounting the bottle under the trunk floor and making sure every wire and line was hidden with split loom.

A 5C converter is too much for any street tire. You look at the stall speed and forget the torque multiplication of a torque converter. So, it's not like 32-3400 in a manual car. It's putting a lot more pressure on the tires and you'll blow them off unless they are drag radials and maybe even then. You add a supercharger to that and you'll be boiling tires through 4th gear. That said, a modern converter under 5C isn't going to significantly raise trans temps in traffic. It's not like the old days, like I said.

You really need to make a clear decision on direction and goals and make sure the chosen parts compliment each other. Want to stay N/A? Torque converter it up, for sure. Plans for S/C down the road? Maybe hold off or go with a lighter stall converter, especially if a PD blower is in the plan. Maybe for now, just get another tune and explain to the tuner you are really looking for a strong torque boost off the bottom. You could even (wait for the screams of the outraged here), raise the rear gearing a little, to say, 3.31, for a little extra feeling of jump off the line without too much traction penalty.
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 09:47 AM   #18
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
It's not quite the direct, mechanical feel of a gear change, because auto trans don't work that way. They have planetary gearsets and clutch packs that work up to drive. However, pushing the motor up into an effective range to make power speeds up this response. You won't get the sag as the motor comes off the converters torque multiplication and falls into a dead zone for power at around 2k.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 09:55 AM   #19
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
That's what I'm looking for, thanks. What would be a good choice for that and the possibility of going N2O later or maybe even SC? 4C?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
It's not quite the direct, mechanical feel of a gear change, because auto trans don't work that way. They have planetary gearsets and clutch packs that work up to drive. However, pushing the motor up into an effective range to make power speeds up this response. You won't get the sag as the motor comes off the converters torque multiplication and falls into a dead zone for power at around 2k.
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 12:10 PM   #20
Registered Member

Regular
 
Jon3.7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Deltona
Region: Florida
Posts: 399
Ive seen a 1.8 60' with radials and a vmp tune.. Stalling to around 1200 rpm, anything beyond that it was over 2.0 60's. the stock TC sucks. Probably going to save up for a 2800-3000 stall from circle d when i get a once piece shaft. I run that cars in brkt races and has to be consistent for me. lol
__________________
2013 GT, A6, VMP Tuned, Lethal O/R H pipe, GT500 Mufflers
2016 EB, A6, Steeda Tuned, Steeda CAI
Jon3.7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 12:22 PM   #21
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
Jon 3.7

If by stalling you mean launching at 1200 rpm, maybe that 's part of my problem.
I'm trying to leave with it at 1600 -1800, getting like 1.9 60's
Maybe I'm launching to hard.
Using a 245/18/40 Drag radial, trac control off, Ford Pro-cal tune.
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 01:05 PM   #22
Registered Member

Regular
 
Jon3.7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Deltona
Region: Florida
Posts: 399
Quote:
Originally Posted by REG View Post
If by stalling you mean launching at 1200 rpm, maybe that 's part of my problem.
I'm trying to leave with it at 1600 -1800, getting like 1.9 60's
Maybe I'm launching to hard.
Using a 245/18/40 Drag radial, trac control off, Ford Pro-cal tune.
Yes, that is what i mean, launch around 1200 rpms. ran it plenty of times at both 1200 and 1500 or so, and just not working, some people even swear launching at idle.
__________________
2013 GT, A6, VMP Tuned, Lethal O/R H pipe, GT500 Mufflers
2016 EB, A6, Steeda Tuned, Steeda CAI
Jon3.7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 04:29 PM   #23
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
You are only launching too hard if you are smoking tire. Drag racing these cars on street rubber is pointless and boring.

To answer you're earlier question, I'd say a 4C would be the most converter you'd want on a PD supercharged car and you'll need a hell of a good tire to hold even that.

Keep in mind, the track will probably boot you with even a mild SC, as you are going to butt heads with the 11.49 cage limit for modified cars. I'm at 11.48 on a 100 shot.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 05:02 PM   #24
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
Yes why some many questions and why you think I don't understand your responses.
I'm trying to land in an area that gets me high 11's with out going to crazy on mods.
When I said that NOx not as safe as SC I was merely repeating what I hear from a number of these sites and from others.
I agree with you that NOx is probably safer as the bottle will only be in the car at the strip, whilst SC will be going as long as the crank is turning.
I'm not really breaking the tires loose when launching but can't seem to get my 60 below 1.9
I've got a lot of time slips and still feeling my way around!
Let me ask you this are you using wet or dry and whose system?
11.48 is a full second better than I've been able to run, so I think I got the car dialed reasonably well. There is a rule of thumb that says every 10 hp = a tenth.
Doin the math 100 hp shot = 1 sec
Am I off base
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 05:13 PM   #25
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
You can get high 11s as it sits, with a tune, a converter and a drag radial out back. No power adder, nothing.

I did high 11s on a stick car with Procal, a slick and some upgraded upper and lower arms. It's there for the taking on the auto cars as well. The auto cars don't need the rear suspension help the stick car benefits from so you can put that money into the tire or the converter.

Wet is it for these cars, in my opinion. Pushing the rather small factory injectors isn't a good idea in my mind. And no, you aren't off base. I got a second out of a 100 shot. I'm doing 150 next week and shooting for 10s before they throw me out. NX plate kit with the integrated solenoids, as I was never going to go over 150 anyway and the system is very stealthy.

BTW, NOx is oxides of nitrogen, not N2O, which is nitrous oxide. Oxides of nitrogen are a by-product of combustion, controlled by your catalytic converter.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 06:43 PM   #26
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
1) my experience auto's need LCAs I hit wheel hop before LCAs that cured it, drag radial may have fixed it as well, did both at same time
2) have dr's running 245/18/40 MT they seem to hook
3) may try VMP tune in September when it gets a little cooler want to see how low I can get before I switch
4) btw I know the difference between N2O and NOx just too lazy and worked in emissions testing for a while so I use NOx for nitrous
Oxygen molecule in nitrous dioxide disassociates under high temperature, allowing more oxygen to be available during the combustion process. Nitrous oxides are formed during the combustion process due to heat of combustion and the fact that air contains some 70% nitrogen.
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2016, 06:54 PM   #27
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
Why use wrong terms when the right one has the same number of letters? It just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

It's the tires not the lcas that fixed the hop, I guarantee it. Wheelhop is almost traction. More traction cures it and that's tires. The stick cars need more assertive axle control and slick tires because of the driveline shock of launching.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 03:46 AM   #28
Registered Member
Regular
 
Grabber Blue5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: East Haven
Region: Connecticut
Posts: 3,405
These cars don't need LCA's unless the cars have been lowered.

1.9 60' is the best you're going to get out of the stock converter. Some have managed a 1.8 but it's very rare.

Don't fear the converter. It will help your car tremendously.
__________________
2015 Dodge Challenger Scat Pack Jazz Blue Pearl Automatic

2015 GT Premium 401A Ingot Silver Automatic Sold

2011 GT Premium 401A Grabber Blue Automatic Sold
Grabber Blue5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 05:56 AM   #29
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
Shotgun approach when I encountered wheel hop
I think the d/r's were the cure
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 08:37 AM   #30
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
...and, being picky, it's not nitrous DIoxide. There are two parts of Nitrogen and one of Oxygen in nitrous oxide. You throw chemistry terms around like they are interchangeable. Oxides of nitrogen or nitrogen oxides is the correct way to refer to NOx, the automotive and industrial emission.

So, you have gotten plenty of help here and people are still willing to offer guidance. What do you think your plan is going to be at this stage, based upon everything you've heard?
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 12:16 PM   #31
Registered Member
Regular
 
special5.0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Youngstown
Region: Ohio
Posts: 40
If you're asking me, I'm thinking about getting a mild stall, then see how that goes before I go further. Oh and some DRs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5LHO View Post
...and, being picky, it's not nitrous DIoxide. There are two parts of Nitrogen and one of Oxygen in nitrous oxide. You throw chemistry terms around like they are interchangeable. Oxides of nitrogen or nitrogen oxides is the correct way to refer to NOx, the automotive and industrial emission.

So, you have gotten plenty of help here and people are still willing to offer guidance. What do you think your plan is going to be at this stage, based upon everything you've heard?
special5.0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 02:45 PM   #32
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
5LHO not sure what my plan is.
I'm probably going to try a VMP tune, see where that gets me.
Then I may either go converter or I may go with a centrifugal supercharger.
I know big jump one to the other and the supercharger install will be significantly more work and cost.
You get awful upset about how I throw chemistry stuff around you a chemist?
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 03:29 PM   #33
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
The supercharger install is much easier than the torque converter job, I assure you. One needs a hoist, one doesn't. One involves the removal of a lot of major components, one doesn't. I can do a centri SC install in a day, easy, at home. Cost? Well, yeah, superchargers are expensive, no doubt there.

I'm an auto shop teacher but, I also have a degree in English Lit. I get upset when people throw technical knowledge and terms around without any sense of their meaning. I want people to both look smart and be smart; that's what I work on daily and that means some precision in the use of language, particularly language that has inherent meaning.


....and yeah, Special, your plan is a sound one, definitely. Don't go too mild on the stall though, you can hold it with the DRs.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 06:19 PM   #34
REG
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Monaca
Region: Pennsylvania
Posts: 229
You are really gonna get ticked off at me because I am a mechanical Engineer and yea I know better but I'm lazy and sometimes I'm doing these posts while on conf calls
My neighbor teaches auto mechanics at the vo tec.
I sit on the advisory board.
I know not a good example for youth.
Been involved in QA/QC functions most of my career.
Did a stint as a contract test engineer for AC for a couple of years been involved in lubricant testing for a while now
Did a few years as a QC Engineer in two nuc plants.
Curious though, how does one go from being an English lit major to teaching auto shop?
Were you always a gear head? (Meant as a term of endearment)
__________________
2013 BBK Short tube, E-Force Stage 2, M/T 245/18/40 DR's, BMR LCA's, Alum D/S, Strange FRT adjustable struts
REG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2016, 06:46 PM   #35
Registered Member
Regular
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Region: Canada
Posts: 2,881
You should set a good example, lol....

Yeah, always a gearhead, from womb to tomb. My mother said the first word I said was "car". and it went from there.

I really don't know how I ended up taking a lit degree and teaching English, ultimately. Seemed like a good idea at the time but I quickly re-engineered myself as a shop teacher and taught 14 years of that. Now I'm out of that and I'm the President of my teacher's union. The road not taken, as Robert Frost said....always believed try as much as you can in this life, it's the only one you have.
__________________
2014 Premium GT, SGM, Brembo, Auto, Tech, Comfort, etc. GT500s, Steeda UCA, VMP auto N/A tune. 100 shot nitrous on BBR tune. Best e/t 11.42 at 120.64

2012 Premium GT, Candy Red, Brembo package, 3.73, MT82, Comfort, Tech, et al. Procal tune, Roush UCA, UMI poly LCA, GT500s, Steeda red bracket, Hoosier 28x10x16 bias drags. Best e/t 11.91 at 115.23 RIP
5LHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Lower Navigation
Go Back   Mustang Evolution > 1979-2015 Mustang GT || Tech and Talk > 2011-2014 Mustang GT

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Question question!?!? AmericanBulldog Pre-2005 V6 Mustang 11 12-11-2013 08:24 PM
Wheel gap question and lca question Mdazi 2011-2014 Mustang GT 27 05-27-2013 07:11 PM
Wheel Question / possibly stupid question Rogue Slider Mustang Wheels & Tires 8 05-29-2012 12:21 PM
Question: I would like to know from you guys (See background and full question)? dumont75 General Mustang Discussion 16 03-03-2010 06:17 PM
Car question? Duh, of course it's a car question, silly!? imported_daman General Car Discussion 3 08-17-2009 06:40 PM

» Like Us On Facebook



12:31 AM


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0

MustangEvolution.com is in no way associated with or endorsed by Ford Motor Company.