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Old 10-03-2016, 11:58 PM   #1
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Why should I SC'er versus TC'er?

Hello all, I'm prepping my car for FI the middle of 2017 and starting with wanting turbo. As i read i was discouraged and started to research SC'ers instead. I keep leaning back on turbo though.
Why shouldn't i turbo my DD? Why is a SC considered better for a DD?


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Old 10-04-2016, 12:15 AM   #2
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I am a fan of supercharger on cars. Motorcycles tend to like turbos due to the lack of belts.

Now that my opinion is out of the way; both set ups are able to provide equal power. In today's world turbo lag is almost non existent. That leaves the question of which induction system is the most efficient and reliable. The answer is still both.

I prefer a supercharger because it is easier to add a longer serpentine belt than it is to rebuild the entire exhaust. A supercharger is also easier to add PSI to the intake due to the fact that you only have to change the pulley to gain more power.

I mentioned the improvement of turbo lag, but the lag still exists. A supercharger doesn't have lag, power is instant. The interesting thing about a turbo is that you are utilizing spent energy (exhaust) to power the induction. A supercharger needs engine power to turn the gears, and there is a minute amount of parasitic power loss. A turbo has this issue also in terms of exhaust back pressuer, but that is over looked.

I am leaving out the programming and tuning issues that will be involved. The new Mustangs are a computer chip away from becoming an autonomous vehicle that can do whatever it chooses.

In the end the choice is all yours.
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Old 10-05-2016, 05:26 AM   #3
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I am a fan of supercharger on cars. Motorcycles tend to like turbos due to the lack of belts.

Now that my opinion is out of the way; both set ups are able to provide equal power. In today's world turbo lag is almost non existent. That leaves the question of which induction system is the most efficient and reliable. The answer is still both.

I prefer a supercharger because it is easier to add a longer serpentine belt than it is to rebuild the entire exhaust. A supercharger is also easier to add PSI to the intake due to the fact that you only have to change the pulley to gain more power.
All good points. Gotta say having several turbo cars in the past, adding boost is way easier with a turbo than a supercharger. Almost all turbo kits come with a boost controller .. its literally as easy as pushing a button to add or reduce boost. You will certainly get a quicker response from a supercharger but in my opinion turbo boost is way more exciting to feel. Superchargers are good in the sense that they will not "creep" on you or spike like a turbo will that could cause possible damage to the motor if not equipped correctly. Superchargers are a cheaper and safer alternative to me but not as exciting. There you go.

I mentioned the improvement of turbo lag, but the lag still exists. A supercharger doesn't have lag, power is instant. The interesting thing about a turbo is that you are utilizing spent energy (exhaust) to power the induction. A supercharger needs engine power to turn the gears, and there is a minute amount of parasitic power loss. A turbo has this issue also in terms of exhaust back pressuer, but that is over looked.

I am leaving out the programming and tuning issues that will be involved. The new Mustangs are a computer chip away from becoming an autonomous vehicle that can do whatever it chooses.

In the end the choice is all yours.
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Old 10-05-2016, 07:05 AM   #4
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Thank you both for some counter points. I've only had a turbo car in the past and love the way it had stock manners unless I got into it. The more I'm reading the more I've seen the mention of under hood temps being mentioned as a reason to SC instead. How much does it actually increase? Can it be helped by ceramic coating the entire hot side? For DD use does it actually fatigue the rubbers and plastics significantly faster?
I don't want to have to change out all hosing and plastics every 50-80k miles. Is that a myth or actually something that happens?

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Old 10-05-2016, 07:43 AM   #5
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They do make wraps and covers for turbos to help with heat but it gets really hot at times under there. With that turbo spooling and compressing already hot as hell exhaust gasses it gets warm in there for sure. Your air charge temps can be high under the hood. I have no idea about the degradation of plastics and rubber though. There are under car mounted turbo systems that take care of the heat issue.

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Old 10-05-2016, 07:55 AM   #6
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Get a turbo heat blanket.


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Old 10-05-2016, 07:12 PM   #7
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If one desires about 550-600 WHP, and if the general consensus of the safe limit on 11-14 internals is about that (appears to be), a supercharger needs to make 60-80 HP more (which puts more stress on engine), as that is what it eats up to make boost.
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Old 10-06-2016, 11:23 PM   #8
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Surprised nobody has mentioned a centrifugal supercharger such as a Vortech/Paxton/procharger. I went with a Vortech V3Si kit from beefcake racing and couldn't be happier. You want daily drivability, this is the form of FI you want. My supercharger acts like it's not even there unless I want it to be. 500 rwhp @ 6 psi also isn't too shabby. Mechanically everything else is stock besides an axle back. Depending on most kits, supercharging will also be the cheaper route unless you get an On3 kit (which I wouldn't do, but that's just me). You get what you pay for.


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Old 10-11-2016, 02:51 PM   #9
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Surprised nobody has mentioned a centrifugal supercharger such as a Vortech/Paxton/procharger. I went with a Vortech V3Si kit from beefcake racing and couldn't be happier. You want daily drivability, this is the form of FI you want. My supercharger acts like it's not even there unless I want it to be. 500 rwhp @ 6 psi also isn't too shabby. Mechanically everything else is stock besides an axle back. Depending on most kits, supercharging will also be the cheaper route unless you get an On3 kit (which I wouldn't do, but that's just me). You get what you pay for.


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I like your train of thought. I wanted a VMP for a long time but then I started reading about people that have a setup like yours. I know a twin screw/roots style sc is instant boost, in fact boost is always on. but can that put too much strain on a 11-14 that doesn't have forged internals? Most guys on the street (including me) run from a roll anyway because our stang's are so light in the *** to run from a dig. Seems like a centri blower might be nice for the street. I didn't mean to interfere with the posters original question but Ox got me thinking.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:38 PM   #10
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I like your train of thought. I wanted a VMP for a long time but then I started reading about people that have a setup like yours. I know a twin screw/roots style sc is instant boost, in fact boost is always on. but can that put too much strain on a 11-14 that doesn't have forged internals? Most guys on the street (including me) run from a roll anyway because our stang's are so light in the *** to run from a dig. Seems like a centri blower might be nice for the street. I didn't mean to interfere with the posters original question but Ox got me thinking.

Like you, I didn't like the idea of instant boost. Not because of possible engine damage per say, but because of the instant hit on driveline components IE clutch, tranny, driveshaft, etc. I like the idea of having to build the boost. I would've loved to have gone turbo but it was a more complicated, and more expensive route to take, and with the high compression coyote, you can't run tons of boost regardless. Even though centri's like RPMS's I still have more than enough power to roast 1st through 4th going off idle on street tires. I don't think anyone would be disappointed if they went this same route....


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Old 10-13-2016, 11:00 AM   #11
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I have owned a few N/a and turbo vehicles, and my personal opinion is that if you are not very mechanically inclined and just want a "set it and forget it" type of thing, then you need a supercharger.

With a turbo, when something goes wrong: Best case scenario is you lost a vacuum line or a charge pipe and are making no boost. Worst case scenario is something goes wrong and you lose boost control entirely ( i have spent a few years tuning and have seen more than 1 wastegate fail to open) and take an engine out.

The supercharger... there's not really anything to go wrong. Its the easier "set it and forget it" option. Both will make enough power to pop your stock motor so making a decision based on the "pros" is pointless in my opinion, i would instead base a decision like this on the "cons."
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Old 10-13-2016, 08:44 PM   #12
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I have owned a few N/a and turbo vehicles, and my personal opinion is that if you are not very mechanically inclined and just want a "set it and forget it" type of thing, then you need a supercharger.

With a turbo, when something goes wrong: Best case scenario is you lost a vacuum line or a charge pipe and are making no boost. Worst case scenario is something goes wrong and you lose boost control entirely ( i have spent a few years tuning and have seen more than 1 wastegate fail to open) and take an engine out.

The supercharger... there's not really anything to go wrong. Its the easier "set it and forget it" option. Both will make enough power to pop your stock motor so making a decision based on the "pros" is pointless in my opinion, i would instead base a decision like this on the "cons."

Very true. But both are labor intensive. Even with the blower my bypass valve failed (manufacturer issue) and my charge pipes leaked a few months after. Going either route isn't for a novice wrencher that's 100% the God's honest truth. It's something you want to make sure you're ready for, and not just financially.


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Old 10-14-2016, 07:44 AM   #13
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Thank you both for some counter points. I've only had a turbo car in the past and love the way it had stock manners unless I got into it. The more I'm reading the more I've seen the mention of under hood temps being mentioned as a reason to SC instead. How much does it actually increase? Can it be helped by ceramic coating the entire hot side? For DD use does it actually fatigue the rubbers and plastics significantly faster?
I don't want to have to change out all hosing and plastics every 50-80k miles. Is that a myth or actually something that happens?

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I have been driving turbo cars continuously as daily drivers since 1985 and have accumulated over 3/4 of a million miles on them in that time. Under hood heat is a non factor IMHO. Also, they have been every bit as reliable and economical as the N/A version of the motor. I have put mid 200k miles on a couple of them and never had an internal engine or turbo failure, they were all tuned past stock too.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:13 AM   #14
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Big difference between a stock turbocar application, where the manufacturer has gone to great lengths to control engine bay heat and an aftermarket TT setup in a car not designed for it. Underhood heat is not something to be ignored and is hard to control with that much extra hot side piping in places it wasn't before. It can be controlled but it has to be thought through.

I've had lots of these too, tuned up to 11 as well. I've had **** blow up and **** stay together, that is the game.

I found the Vortech on the Coyote disappointing. All the boost was stacked up top but, it felt like a soggy stocker around town....and this is the most streetable of all the centri SCs.

If I was to do it again, I'd go with a positve displacement SC like Roush, VMP, etc. I want the car to feel like it's got a power adder when I'm not at max attack.
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Old 10-14-2016, 09:12 AM   #15
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Why should I SC'er versus TC'er?

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Big difference between a stock turbocar application, where the manufacturer has gone to great lengths to control engine bay heat and an aftermarket TT setup in a car not designed for it. Underhood heat is not something to be ignored and is hard to control with that much extra hot side piping in places it wasn't before. It can be controlled but it has to be thought through.

I've had lots of these too, tuned up to 11 as well. I've had **** blow up and **** stay together, that is the game.

I found the Vortech on the Coyote disappointing. All the boost was stacked up top but, it felt like a soggy stocker around town....and this is the most streetable of all the centri SCs.

If I was to do it again, I'd go with a positve displacement SC like Roush, VMP, etc. I want the car to feel like it's got a power adder when I'm not at max attack.

Well there's trade offs. I agree with you, if you're not high in the RPMS's and on the go pedal, the Vortech can feel sluggish. It's belt driven off the crank pulley, it's going to happen. But I bought it because of its streetability. My mustang isn't an all out race car as well, which is why I went this route. I wanted to be able to flip a switch on and off if you will. If this was a weekend warrior, I would've went twin turbo or PD blower. And at that point I would've built the motor and trans because it would've needed it sooner than later. 500 rwhp is a lot of hp for most people to even think about handling. I'm quite happy with my set up. Just need to be in the right gear at the right RPM...or up the boost 😝😝


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Old 10-17-2016, 07:20 AM   #16
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OK, I thought I had my choice down.
I was going to go pro charger, found a kit with associated tune claiming to make 624 hp. My reasoning was
1) ease of installation, claim no bumper cutting, front cover mods, etc.
2) making power higher up on the rpm curve would ease launch concerns, but now
I'm now thinking that making power at the higher rpm's won't help on 60 times and the et improvement won't that great.
My original plan was to go with the rousch, but then thought a centrifugal SC would not hurt launch, why I began looking at other such as procharger, vortech.
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Old 10-17-2016, 07:33 AM   #17
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OK, I thought I had my choice down.

I was going to go pro charger, found a kit with associated tune claiming to make 624 hp. My reasoning was

1) ease of installation, claim no bumper cutting, front cover mods, etc.

2) making power higher up on the rpm curve would ease launch concerns, but now

I'm now thinking that making power at the higher rpm's won't help on 60 times and the et improvement won't that great.

My original plan was to go with the rousch, but then thought a centrifugal SC would not hurt launch, why I began looking at other such as procharger, vortech.

Vacillating!

Well, it also depends on what you plan on doing with the car. If the car is a daily, I'd go centri. If it's an all out weekend warrior, I'd forgo both and go twin turbo. I gained almost 10mph at the track when I added the Vortech. Quarter mile times didn't change much because I was spinning so bad on street tires and couldn't get out of the hole. A pair of slicks and a good 60 ft would be low 11's on 6-7 lbs of boost. Don't let the power higher up in the power and scare you off from running at track, it can still work. Also, make sure you get some good oil pump gears so you can spend some time high up there and not have your pump fail.


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Old 10-19-2016, 08:07 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by REG View Post
OK, I thought I had my choice down.
I was going to go pro charger, found a kit with associated tune claiming to make 624 hp. My reasoning was
1) ease of installation, claim no bumper cutting, front cover mods, etc.
2) making power higher up on the rpm curve would ease launch concerns, but now
I'm now thinking that making power at the higher rpm's won't help on 60 times and the et improvement won't that great.
My original plan was to go with the rousch, but then thought a centrifugal SC would not hurt launch, why I began looking at other such as procharger, vortech.
Vacillating!
Well in regards to track times the SC will certainly give you instant boost but remember 10lbs of turbo boost is worth more power than 10 lbs of SC boost.
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