Is everyone really spending $5-$8 grand on superchargers? - Mustang Evolution

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Old 12-27-2017, 07:17 AM   #1
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Is everyone really spending $5-$8 grand on superchargers?

Still new to the stang modding world... have the bug of course. It just surprises me that so many folks are spending that kind of dough and wondering if I'm just not looking in the right places. I can wrench but don't have the technical knowledge to piece together individual parts that safely fit my car, so I pretty much focus on sites like AM, Steeda, LMR, etc. Are there other options, or do I need to save up the $8 large? Thanks.
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Old 12-27-2017, 08:00 AM   #2
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You can always go used. There a lot of people getting rid of their gen 2 front feed whipples now that the gen 3 are out. As well as a lot of tvs guys will be selling them once the 2650 comes all out. A company by the name of Department of boos also a good option at a lower price. I was in the same boat as you, I ended up biting the bullet in the end & went new

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---------- Post added at 02:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:00 PM ----------

Depertment of boost*

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Old 12-27-2017, 08:25 AM   #3
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Thanks Cordero.... checked them out.... looks like a solid option for < $5k.
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Old 12-27-2017, 09:00 AM   #4
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Yeah they just had a group buy in too. Might still be open, thet have a fb page with lists on it & closing date

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Old 12-27-2017, 01:58 PM   #5
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The problem with used is missing parts and not knowing how badly someone beat on stuff. Someone on another forum had their head unit seize not too long after getting it, the supercharger company denied the warranty due to abuse. There are a lot of incidentals to consider like suspension, fuel, clutch etc when going supercharged, I believe my build in the end was around $12,000 including dyno time, tune etc. when all was said and done but I added a few extras such as an ATI damper, aluminum driveshaft, DW 1000 injectors and Boost a pump right off the bat and I upgraded my clutch and shifter as well. I still have not hooked up my gauges or catch can yet either.
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Old 12-27-2017, 02:19 PM   #6
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Supercharger Cost

Previous poster brings up some other points.
Last winter, I purchased a Edelbrock EForce stage 2 kit from Brennspeed for 6300 - 500 rebate. I already had an aluminum D/S but have made a number of suspension mods and am now looking at skinnies, 15X10's on rear with 275 Drag radial, also looking at light weight battery. Got the car to go 12.4 with a proc cal, 245 drag radial and aluminum shaft.
Have only been able to run 11.4 with the S/C.
going to see where it is over the winter on a dyno then try and dial tires, etc.
If you just want to here the whine, then go for it.
I looked at another tuner setting up a procharger and that priced out at 9500, its not just bolt on a S/c run 10's.
The other thing is you have to learn how to drive it all over again.
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Old 12-27-2017, 03:07 PM   #7
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Old 12-27-2017, 03:18 PM   #8
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Yeah I was looking at used & most of my buddies kept telling me to go that route. But after reading enough threads of bad used stuff I went ahead & got new for peace of mind. Only way I did save was by going with tuner kit & on sales.

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Old 12-27-2017, 04:48 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AXG View Post
I can wrench but don't have the technical knowledge to piece together individual parts that safely fit my car, so I pretty much focus on sites like AM, Steeda, LMR, etc. Are there other options, or do I need to save up the $8 large? Thanks.
Don't blame you for wanting to go S/C. Who doesn't? (Turbo and N/A guys can pipe in about now.....)

Arlen, If you don't want to spend what a new kit costs now, think how horrible it will be when the head unit on your used kit goes and you spend more than new just to get it working. Man, I'd be pissed!

Here's a suggestion that you could try. Last year I picked up a Ford Racing 624 hp complete kit (tuner and tune incl). It's a Whipple s/c and, at one time, cost more than the equivalent Roush 625 hp unit. The two kits use all the same parts exactly except for the Whipple (twin screw) vs. the Roush TVS (roots) head units. Very identical. Very safe tunes. Very easy to install for a moderately willing and talented guy.

Last year before Christmas the FRPP (Ford Racing) kits went on sale for good prices. $3700 complete, some with free shipping. I called Ford Racing and asked what the deal was. They said they had officially joined with Roush for future supercharger developments and were letting remaining stock go for a discount. They refused to send one to me as I was in Canada.

I made a few calls to Mustang shops and dealerships near me. One Mustang shop had one in stock and would deal. Then, a local Ford dealer called me back and couldn't wait to unload a kit in their inventory. I think they figured they'd never sell the thing! They matched the $3700 total price and gave me lots of advice and a few clips, clamps, etc. that I had screwed up as I disassembled the front of the car.

The kit started with the first turn of the key and has run absolutely flawlessly since. Only problem is that I don't have enough tire. 3.73 gears sound great when the car is stock but fry tires supercharged. If you can locate one I would give this kit a two thumbs up for completeness, simplicity and quality of build. It's factory, after all! (Kind of factory, anyway. Says Ford Racing on it...)

Hope you find what you are looking for and

All the best.

PS I looked at one of the sites that had it advertised for $3700 last year and they currently advertise it for $4700. Probably don't have it in stock but it could give you a starting point for negotiating with a dealer on an in stock kit? Here's the link...

Ford Mustang Supercharger M-6066-MGT624PD| Polished Ford Engine Products

Again, good luck!
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:19 AM   #10
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Thanks UUUd444, and everyone, good info.... Anyone know the diff between the manual vs AT kits? My car is an auto. Assuming it's possible to make the MT kit work w/an AT car.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:44 AM   #11
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If your car is an auto first thing you need to do is go back to the stock 3.15s or 3.31s. Going to 3.73s made your car slower believe it or not.
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Old 12-28-2017, 11:50 AM   #12
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If your car is an auto first thing you need to do is go back to the stock 3.15s or 3.31s. Going to 3.73s made your car slower believe it or not.
I know I lost top end, but the car feels much snappier. I pretty much assumed the gearing is wrong for a sc.
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Old 12-28-2017, 12:36 PM   #13
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If auto, would turbo not be a better option?

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Old 12-28-2017, 01:27 PM   #14
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I know I lost top end, but the car feels much snappier. I pretty much assumed the gearing is wrong for a sc.
Gearing is wrong for an auto period. I mean maybe for just around town but if you want to be legit fast and take it to the 1/4. Nope.
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Old 12-28-2017, 01:37 PM   #15
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Gearing is wrong for an auto period. I mean maybe for just around town but if you want to be legit fast and take it to the 1/4. Nope.
Ok.... well I don't know much about it...I thought I was doing the right thing and Steeda up in pompano had no problem doing it. I know "they're just trying to make money" but I trusted that they'd give me good advice (being Steeda) and make money on other mods... So I guess they're just like any other money scamming POS shop out there selling me bs.

So that said... I still have the original gears. Assuming the better option is a torque converter? I only know that because voltwings beat me up on the 3.73 on another thread... but, like I said, I don't know much about it. I'm still learning the Mustang.
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Old 12-28-2017, 03:02 PM   #16
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Ok.... well I don't know much about it...I thought I was doing the right thing and Steeda up in pompano had no problem doing it. I know "they're just trying to make money" but I trusted that they'd give me good advice (being Steeda) and make money on other mods... So I guess they're just like any other money scamming POS shop out there selling me bs.

So that said... I still have the original gears. Assuming the better option is a torque converter? I only know that because voltwings beat me up on the 3.73 on another thread... but, like I said, I don't know much about it. I'm still learning the Mustang.

I dont have an auto, and i am not a drag racer, so someone feel free to correct if i state this incorrectly.

On the stock converter, the stock gears are the fastest, but If you're going to swap gears, you do need a converter to make the most of it I THINK. That puts you in a tricky spot, because if you add the converter, the 3.73s may do you some real good at that point... but if you're going to be boosted, then they're going to make life difficult for you and you may want to go back to a 3.15 or 3.31.

Its a tough call to make for sure, and regardless you're more than likely going to be spending some money on something annoying.
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Old 12-28-2017, 04:39 PM   #17
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Track verified fastest gears are 3.31s, period. With the stock 3.15s pretty damn close. If I was the OP I'd go back to the 3.15s. Remember, the 6R80 trans is not geared like the autos before it. Much MUCH taller first couple gears than the 4 and 5 speeds. The new 10 speeds are even crazier... Grabber was running 11.2 NA with just longtubes/exhaust/suspension and a Circle D converter with his 2011 auto. Stock 3.15s.

-Put the 3.15s back in (or 3.31s if you are feeling froggy)
-Call Circle D for a converter recommendation
-Dynatech longtubes and mid pipe to your choice of catback
-BMR lower control arms with relocation brackets
-BMR upper control arm
-BMR adjustable panhard bar
-Your choice of lowering springs and struts/shocks
-Lund tune with ngauge programmer
-Set of ET streets for track days

That's a mid-low 11 second daily driver that'll get 25mpg all motor and be factory reliable.

And if you are going to go turbo, skip the longtubes and just get the on3 turbo. If you do go with a power adder and its not nitrous... its hard to justify not getting the On3 as it takes care of both your power adder and exhaust needs so basically the $1600 worth of longtubes and midpipe is covered with the On3 kit.
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:11 PM   #18
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scottydsntknow.... awesome! Thanks for that info! I'm on the fence about a blower, but my next question/thread, was going to be where should I go from here if I don't go that route? Not happy that I'd end up spending over $1,000 in gear work for nothing, but I'm sure I'm not the only one here that's wasted dough like that on their car at some point in their lives.

(anyone know a good shop down here in SoFla?)
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:16 PM   #19
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Man all you guys lucky that you have options on different shops. I need the gears done on mine & closest perfornamce shop from me is a 10 hr trip

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Old 12-28-2017, 05:17 PM   #20
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Go turbo AXG, ON3 single would make your car a beast since its auto

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Old 12-28-2017, 05:20 PM   #21
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(anyone know a good shop down here in SoFla?)

Blow by racing or go up to the northern part of the state to VMP.
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:31 PM   #22
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Old 12-28-2017, 05:35 PM   #23
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I'm gonna need to save a lot more $... Then there's the wife conversation...

Honey, the good news is that I've decided to keep my car ... let's just focus on that
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Old 12-28-2017, 06:33 PM   #24
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I don't blame Steeda honestly, they are a shop and are there to do what the customer wants. Unless they specifically recommended changing gears, then I would go back and have a talk with them about getting a deal on the stockers re-installed. Because if they did recommend you change gears to increase performance you were lied to.
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Old 12-29-2017, 06:33 AM   #25
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Man that turbo installation looks crazy compared to the SC... Longtubes are something to consider... I like loud but not crazy loud. Wonder if there's a setup that's close in sound to my Roush setup.
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Old 12-29-2017, 11:15 AM   #26
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Doing the turbo install isn't any harder than doing longtubes and a blower. Might be easier TBTH. If you can follow directions and have a pretty basic set of tools (all my stuff is Harbor Freight and I just did a whole engine and have done 4 transmissions now) and aren't an idiot you can do the install.

This is assuming you don't have any like... medical conditions or other issues out of your control.
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Old 12-29-2017, 12:29 PM   #27
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^^^^ this is reassuring.

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Old 12-29-2017, 01:15 PM   #28
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Cool... BTW... here is the response from Brian at Circle D regarding gearing and converter...

I don't think the 3.73 gears are a deal breaker. Some of our quickest N/A cars are geared and obviously work very well. I would add the converter and see what you think after that. For now, I would like to see you in the 245mm 9.75" core. This will work well to get you in the powerband and still maintain good street manners. Something around the 3600 range would work very well on the street. Here is this converter on our website:
Circle D Specialties. FORD 245mm Pro Series 6R80 Torque Converter
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:15 PM   #29
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Cool... BTW... here is the response from Brian at Circle D regarding gearing and converter...

I don't think the 3.73 gears are a deal breaker. Some of our quickest N/A cars are geared and obviously work very well. I would add the converter and see what you think after that. For now, I would like to see you in the 245mm 9.75" core. This will work well to get you in the powerband and still maintain good street manners. Something around the 3600 range would work very well on the street. Here is this converter on our website:
Circle D Specialties. FORD 245mm Pro Series 6R80 Torque Converter
I find it hard to believe that your stiffer gearing isn't a bit quicker off the line, assuming you can actually hold traction. Anyone who has started off in second instead of first with a manual can tell that the torque multiplication of lower gearing gets you going more quickly and effortlessly (as you earlier said it felt for you). This is even more apparent in normal street driving conditions under part throttle.

While it may be true that a converter would have helped a bit more for drag strip purposes, you have already installed and are pretty much committed to the gears. So, how best to go from here? If you are keeping it as primarily a street driver your gearing should be fine. You may have to just feather the gas off the line until you are going fast enough not to spin uncontrollably.

Now, if you go with bolt on parts as you appear to be heading towards, does anyone really think you will have more power for less money than with supercharging? That seems to be contrary to everything normally written. Supercharging is usually seen as the cheapest $/HP except maybe a tune that 'fixes' a poor factory tune (small overall gain) or nitrous (which needs refilling).

Converter, $1200, exhaust system, $2000, intake, cams, tuning and the rest and we are past the supercharging price. And, likely less driveable, less power overall, less reliable and for sure less fun!

Do yourself a favor and make a few calls to Roush and reputable companies such as Brenspeed, VMP, etc. Tell them your situation and ask them to give you suggestions. Why re-invent solutions that have been already discovered by experts? You are more likely to get a win on the first try if you can use their experience to your advantage.

Good luck with the wife.

All the best.

PS Deep down isn't there a part of you that just really want to see a blower on top of your engine? Be honest.......Oh, and wives love superchargers, too. (At least mine claims to.)
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Old 12-29-2017, 05:44 PM   #30
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Been documented ad-nauseum that 3.31s are the optimal gear for the auto with 3.15s a close second. If you find it hard to believe then that's on you. You do not need that tall of a gear with the 6R80.

Now as far as all the mods being "past the supercharger price"...

$2000 exhaust you need to do anyway even with a blower. Its a wash
$1200 converter... again, you need to do this regardless

You do not need to touch the cams. You will need a tune no matter what you do. Claims about less driveable and less reliable? How? Less power? Well yeah but plenty of 600hp cars that'll get their doors blown off by a 400hp car at the track because the 400hp car was setup to actually utilize everything optimally and put it all down to the ground. Witness the 800hp GT500 crowd waving around dyno sheets but can't even run a 10.
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Old 12-29-2017, 07:19 PM   #31
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Been documented ad-nauseum that 3.31s are the optimal gear for the auto with 3.15s a close second. If you find it hard to believe then that's on you. You do not need that tall of a gear with the 6R80.

It's true that the auto has really stiff first couple of gears. And it's true that a converter will put a stock motor more into it's power band and may help quarter mile times more. But there seems to be plenty of documentation that 60 ft. times will drop by .1 - .2 seconds with the stiffer gearing. IF you can get the power to the ground. It is also true that from a low speed roll lower gearing feels quicker to react. Hence the reference to whether the OP was keeping the car mainly as a street driver.

Now as far as all the mods being "past the supercharger price"...

$2000 exhaust you need to do anyway even with a blower. Its a wash

Ummmm.....No, you don't. Stock exhaust can get you to 600.

$1200 converter... again, you need to do this regardless

Again.....No, you don't. Low end torque is so great with a PD s/c that bog will be almost nonexistent. Tires and traction will be the bigger issue.

These two items add so much extra labor to the build. They alone are about equal to the total labor involved in adding many S/C kits to a stock motor. Takes it from 'do it yourself' to 'take it to my mechanic' for many people. ($)

You do not need to touch the cams.

You are of course correct if a 400 hp car was what the OP was after. His initial post heading led me to believe otherwise.

You will need a tune no matter what you do.

Some kits, like any I mentioned, come with a safe tune that is adequate for many people. At very least it is a good tune to reacquaint yourself with your 'new' car sporting a hundred and fifty or so extra ponies.

Claims about less driveable and less reliable? How?

Less drivable by such things as CobraJet and Boss intakes, which many use to try for supercharger-like power when their exhaust and tune mods don't deliver what they had hoped. Shifts power band upward. Low end torque rules for street driven cars. (Again, unless OP is planning for mainly track and not mainly street.)

Less power? Well yeah but plenty of 600hp cars that'll get their doors blown off by a 400hp car at the track because the 400hp car was setup to actually utilize everything optimally and put it all down to the ground. Witness the 800hp GT500 crowd waving around dyno sheets but can't even run a 10.
I could not agree with you more! Suspension requirements will have a huge overlap to either direction taken. And, of course, much more power will be harder to put down.

But, which one is more fun to drive on the street every day? Having had both bolt on and supercharged I can say, for me at least, that there is no comparison. Twice as much fun and thrill for about the same price or better? A bargain in my book.

Sorry if I offended you, Scotty. I have seen you here a whole lot and agree with pretty much everything I have read of yours. And it's possible that you are in the majority in your opinions here as well. But you can't blame a guy for having an opinion, can you? Even if it's not the right one?

Thanks for your patience and have a really great New Year!

All the best.
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:17 AM   #32
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3.73's with the auto is a *****ty combo making the car no faster. Steeda did the wrong thing suggesting that gearing. As mentioned 3.31's are the ideal gears but 3.15's work pretty well as well. Take it from someone with personal experience here and not some keyboard warrior.
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:03 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
3.73's with the auto is a *****ty combo making the car no faster. Steeda did the wrong thing suggesting that gearing. As mentioned 3.31's are the ideal gears but 3.15's work pretty well as well. Take it from someone with personal experience here and not some keyboard warrior.
Grabber is the person I was referring to who was running 11.2s all motor with the 3.15 gears, suspension and longtubes and a good tune. That's it.
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Old 01-02-2018, 08:20 AM   #34
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Thanks UUUd444, and everyone, good info.... Anyone know the diff between the manual vs AT kits? My car is an auto. Assuming it's possible to make the MT kit work w/an AT car.
It's possible but, the supplied tune will not work so, you'll have to factor the expense of custom tuning in. Plus, you'll need to make some kind of adapter for the aspirator in the intake. You'll notice on the CAI on the auto it has an extra connection in the air tube the manual car does not. No insurmountable problems if the price is right for the blower. I'm not a Whipple fan, personally. I've seen too many that just make heat and perform like **** at the track. The TVS has this problem too, especially the low end kits without the larger IC and fan setup but, not as commonly as the Whipple cars.
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Old 01-02-2018, 05:47 PM   #35
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Problem with most blowers on the 5.0 cars is that the compression is high already so torque is not great. Gearing is your friend. My opinion? Run 11s NA or throw a 200 shot at it if you want faster.
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