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Old 07-31-2014, 04:08 AM   #1
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A6 GT Premium track results.

Car is a 11 premium auto probably the heaviest of them all with glass top and all. Also has Foose 20" wheels. Mods are boss intake, jlt, BBK 85mm tb, long tubes, orx, kooks axle back and 373's. Cars tuned by hypermotive with 7500 rpm shift points. Anyways went 12.4@115 1.9 60'. Was spinning shifting between first to second. Got it to hook off the line though. What do you guys think? Full weight even the spare tire was in it and 3/4 rank of gas. Next to install is some upper and lower control arms and a 4k stall and drag radials for that stall. Any guesses what she'll run then?

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Old 08-06-2014, 11:23 PM   #2
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Wow not one reply... Dead forum or what

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Old 08-07-2014, 05:52 PM   #3
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My thoughts are you did a poor selection of picking parts thus the reason for your poor times. The gears are actually hurting you and the throttle body was a waste of money. The converter though will make a world of difference. Good luck.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Grabber Blue5.0 View Post
My thoughts are you did a poor selection of picking parts thus the reason for your poor times. The gears are actually hurting you and the throttle body was a waste of money. The converter though will make a world of difference. Good luck.
How is it a poor selection of parts? The gears came with the car when I got it and everyone says they may help a little with the boss IM but definitely won't hurt of anything else. I actually have some 331's but have been told it'll be a waste to install them? TB compliments the intake down low and mod range and helps throttle response. Again free. Neither of the 2 parts should hurt performance even if gains are not great you'd think?

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Old 08-08-2014, 12:13 AM   #5
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The 3.73's are forcing you to shift into 4th gear before you cross the stripe and that extra shift is hurting you. I would put the 3.31's in if you have them.

The stock throttle body isn't a restriction on these cars. I've been 11.2 on mine and I know of three guys into the 10's all on the stock throttle body. It doesn't seem to be hurting us.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:42 AM   #6
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Idk my car shifts pretty quick I don't think it's losing anything between shifts, actually feels like it jumps a bit between shifts but I see what your saying. Yeah I do have the gears, might as well throw them in and try it. What's the max mph these cars can get with 331's @ 7500 on a stock height tire? I was talking to Chris at circle d and he had suggested leaving the 373 since I'm going with a converter? As for the tb I wouldn't expect gains really other then it does seem to get a little more mid range and low end but I know peak hp gains are questionable if at all but combined with the boss intake is supposed to be a good combo I've read a lot of places. What mods are you running to go mid to low 11's, are u an a6?

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Old 08-08-2014, 04:54 AM   #7
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The maximum MPH with 3.31's and a 28" tire is 126-127. The fastest N/A cars all have one thing in common. They all run a 3.31 gear. Every time your car shifts it drops out of it's power band and takes time to get back up there. Also with the steep 1st gear in the auto a steep rear gear makes it very difficult to hook up.

All my mods are in my signature. I still run the stock 3.15's and with my taller than stock tires it's actually less gear.
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Old 08-08-2014, 10:48 AM   #8
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The maximum MPH with 3.31's and a 28" tire is 126-127. The fastest N/A cars all have one thing in common. They all run a 3.31 gear. Every time your car shifts it drops out of it's power band and takes time to get back up there. Also with the steep 1st gear in the auto a steep rear gear makes it very difficult to hook up.

All my mods are in my signature. I still run the stock 3.15's and with my taller than stock tires it's actually less gear.
Sig doesn't show up on tapa talk. I took a look on desktop version though. I have most of the same suspension parts waiting to go on minus the lowering Springs. Was thinking of going cobra jet springs. How do you like the strange adj struts? Seems to me like all the autos are either running the 331, or 410. I'd imagine it being very hard to hook on a 410. So who tuned your car Grabber?

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Old 08-08-2014, 11:56 AM   #9
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Every time I read a Grabber thread about his bolt on A6 in the low 11s I get a semi. Next up is a 150 shot to do 10s?

edit: Also reinforces my opinion that the very next stang I get will be an A6 Coyote and probably a 11/12 also.
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Old 08-08-2014, 01:49 PM   #10
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Sig doesn't show up on tapa talk. I took a look on desktop version though. I have most of the same suspension parts waiting to go on minus the lowering Springs. Was thinking of going cobra jet springs. How do you like the strange adj struts? Seems to me like all the autos are either running the 331, or 410. I'd imagine it being very hard to hook on a 410. So who tuned your car Grabber?
The Strange adjustable struts work well for my setup. 4.10's are a bigger mistake than 3.73's. Now you're going the wrong way with the gearing.
I tune my car currently.
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Every time I read a Grabber thread about his bolt on A6 in the low 11s I get a semi. Next up is a 150 shot to do 10s?

edit: Also reinforces my opinion that the very next stang I get will be an A6 Coyote and probably a 11/12 also.
These autos are no joke that's for sure. I think 10's can be had in the Fall with cooler weather. This car will never run nitrous either. Just not a fan of it.
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Old 08-08-2014, 02:38 PM   #11
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Thinking I'll throw the 331's in and see if I pick up anything before installing the suspension and see some real world results. What you guys think were talking goint to 331 from 373 a tenth or 2?
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Old 08-08-2014, 03:12 PM   #12
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You probably won't see much if anything until you do a converter. That's when the car will shine. It's a shame they were installed by the previous owner.

The point of the 3.31 gearing is it allows you to finish crossing the traps at your peak power band. That extra shift whether it be with 3.73's or 4.10's is it will have you crossing well below peak.

One thing to remember is D/A and elevation make a big difference in track results.
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:42 PM   #13
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You probably won't see much if anything until you do a converter. That's when the car will shine. It's a shame they were installed by the previous owner.

The point of the 3.31 gearing is it allows you to finish crossing the traps at your peak power band. That extra shift whether it be with 3.73's or 4.10's is it will have you crossing well below peak.

One thing to remember is D/A and elevation make a big difference in track results.
So is it pointless from a performance standpoint to even install the 331's if I'm not going to pickup anything? Circle D suggested the car might have better street manners with the 373 and a converter vs the 331. I'll either be doing the 4c or 5c. Trying to find some more feedback on how the 5c would be as a daily driver converter....
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:28 PM   #14
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Hey Grabber curious how much does your car weigh? To be in the low 11's with your mods I assume you have lightened it up some?

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Old 08-11-2014, 03:40 PM   #15
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Not really, 3740 lbs. with me in it. It's a premium. I have the spare tire and front sway bar removed. Car runs on skinny's up front.
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Old 09-02-2014, 09:39 PM   #16
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question Grabber, i saw that you mentioned that 3.73 gears actually hurt because not at peak power. does this apply to a manual car or just an automatic
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:40 PM   #17
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He's referring to the autos. It's a long drawn out debate on which of any are showing any gains ET wise other then 331's.

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Old 09-02-2014, 11:23 PM   #18
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For once I feel like a pro with my AT and 3.31's. Good info Grabber, thanks for the read.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:51 AM   #19
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Notice any difference when you switched from stock to those?

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Old 09-03-2014, 05:14 AM   #20
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question Grabber, i saw that you mentioned that 3.73 gears actually hurt because not at peak power. does this apply to a manual car or just an automatic
Just on the autos. But even on the manuals depending on your shift points you could be shifting into 5th before the traps. Not good.
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He's referring to the autos. It's a long drawn out debate on which of any are showing any gains ET wise other then 331's.
Correct. But all the testing has shown 3.31's or even the stock 3.15's are the most effective at the strip.
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For once I feel like a pro with my AT and 3.31's. Good info Grabber, thanks for the read.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:08 PM   #21
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Just on the autos. But even on the manuals depending on your shift points you could be shifting into 5th before the traps. Not good.

Correct. But all the testing has shown 3.31's or even the stock 3.15's are the most effective at the strip.

What about with a stall, has anyone done track testing with that mod and a BOSS intake and higher shift points? I picked up a set of 331's to replace the 373's that were installed on my a6 by the previous owner, yet when talking with CIRCLE D they suggested of get better Street driveability and better track times with the 373 and my 5c converter (if the car hooks) vs going back to a 331. That being said I'm between a rock and a hard place on weather to swap in the 331's or not based on forum talk and what the vendor recommends.

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Old 09-03-2014, 01:40 PM   #22
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Chris @ a Circle is very knowledgable about converters but is wrong on the gears. The fastest N/A cars are running 3.31's. Not one uses 3.73's. This guy found out recently.

Slower et's with new gears - Ford Mustang Forums
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:18 PM   #23
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Chris @ a Circle is very knowledgable about converters but is wrong on the gears. The fastest N/A cars are running 3.31's. Not one uses 3.73's. This guy found out recently.

Slower et's with new gears - Ford Mustang Forums
Intersting.... So I understand about the torque curve and what not. Now, what about a setup like mine where the shift points are at 7500 vs the stock 6500 wouldn't this extra rpm bring it right back into the tq curve like stated in there or no? If not I think it's time to test this 331 vs 373 at the track myself!

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Old 09-03-2014, 04:40 PM   #24
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Now, what about a setup like mine where the shift points are at 7500 vs the stock 6500 wouldn't this extra rpm bring it right back into the tq curve like stated in there or no?
Once the converter goes in getting the car to hook will be extremely difficult with the aggressive 6R80 gearing. Here's a breakdown on just how aggressive they are.

Consider these first gear ratios:

C4 - 2.46
4R70W - 2.84
6R80 - 4.17

Take the 4.17 and multiply it by the 3.31, you get 13.8 for an overall gear ratio in 1st. Now take that 13.8 and divide it by the first gear ratios of the other transmissions and this tells you what axle ratio would give you the equivalent with those transmissions:

C4 - 5.61
4R70W - 4.86

So, although 3.31 "sounds like" not much gear, you can see that in the end, it is quite a bit of gear with the 6R80.

We can do the same with the second gear ratios:

6R80 - 2.34
C4 - 1.46
4R70W - 1.55

That puts the 6R80/3.31 at 7.75, which is like a 4R70W with a 5.00 axle, or a C4 with a 5.31 axle.

And finally 3rd gear, where the 6R80 is 1.52*3.31=5.03, the others are 1 to 1, so 5.03 would be the equivalent axle there.


You'd all agree that an axle in the 5.00 range is a lot of gear, well, we're doing exactly the same thing with the 3.31/6R80, we just have 3 more gears to go after that.


Going the other way, a 4.10/6R80 in first gear is like having a C4 with a 6.95 gear, or a 4R70W with a 6.02 gear. You can see why hooking it is a problem.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:42 PM   #25
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I'm doing a 4r70w swap :thumbup:

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Old 09-03-2014, 04:44 PM   #26
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I'm doing a 4r70w swap :thumbup:

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Those are great transmissions with a lot of potential.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:14 PM   #27
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Once the converter goes in getting the car to hook will be extremely difficult with the aggressive 6R80 gearing. Here's a breakdown on just how aggressive they are.

Consider these first gear ratios:

C4 - 2.46
4R70W - 2.84
6R80 - 4.17

Take the 4.17 and multiply it by the 3.31, you get 13.8 for an overall gear ratio in 1st. Now take that 13.8 and divide it by the first gear ratios of the other transmissions and this tells you what axle ratio would give you the equivalent with those transmissions:

C4 - 5.61
4R70W - 4.86

So, although 3.31 "sounds like" not much gear, you can see that in the end, it is quite a bit of gear with the 6R80.

We can do the same with the second gear ratios:

6R80 - 2.34
C4 - 1.46
4R70W - 1.55

That puts the 6R80/3.31 at 7.75, which is like a 4R70W with a 5.00 axle, or a C4 with a 5.31 axle.

And finally 3rd gear, where the 6R80 is 1.52*3.31=5.03, the others are 1 to 1, so 5.03 would be the equivalent axle there.


You'd all agree that an axle in the 5.00 range is a lot of gear, well, we're doing exactly the same thing with the 3.31/6R80, we just have 3 more gears to go after that.


Going the other way, a 4.10/6R80 in first gear is like having a C4 with a 6.95 gear, or a 4R70W with a 6.02 gear. You can see why hooking it is a problem.
Wow never realized they were quite that aggressive. I'm thinking the 331's are going in soon... Before the converter lol

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Old 09-03-2014, 05:17 PM   #28
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4R transmissions are the ****. Hell, a stock j-modded 75w with a good cooler would hold a stock internal Coyote no problem. That would be a great budget build for a non Coyote car honestly, find a low mileage 75w in the JY, slap on a converter and a standalone to control it and then find a Coyote out of a wrecked GT.

I know Dan at Silverfox can do a 4R that'll hold 900ft lbs.
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Old 09-03-2014, 05:19 PM   #29
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Wow never realized they were quite that aggressive. I'm thinking the 331's are going in soon... Before the converter lol

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Yeah nobody ever looks at the overall gear ratios it seems. Like the 2V guys who swap in a Cobra T-56 and then wonder why their cars turn into total pigs off the line even with the 4.10s they have in the car. Going from a 3.37 to a 2.66 1st gear will do that...
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Old 09-04-2014, 11:06 AM   #30
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Think a 331 is enough with a 28" tire?

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Old 09-04-2014, 01:22 PM   #31
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Absolutely.
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