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Old 03-30-2015, 01:30 PM   #1
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What next after Camaro release?

So the new Camaro is expected to be 200+- lbs lighter due to using the Cadillac platform. This is going to be a BIG bump in performance. Plus I would expect handling to be a lot better just like the CTS-V.

The last time Chevy/Camaro released a nice performance bump Ford was in a similar position. Chevy released V6's with 300hp & V8's with 400hp... Ford had the 2010 coming out to battle it... but it needed all new engines. So the next year right after a body change, Ford releases all new engines to compete... ie: the 2011 major improved V6 & V8's.

I'm personally thinking thinking they're in the same position now. Ford just released the 2015 Mustangs with minor engine tweaks and an all new body/suspension. (you try to only make ONE major change at a time in manufacturing). And Chevy I think is about to surprise them with some major improvements like the C7 got (lighter/better handling) Which means next year Ford will be in a position, needing to introduce a new engine line up... to compete.

ie: V8 flat plane crank as the premium engine & ecoboost as the pony car engine.

PURE SPECULATION on my part. But it would repeat the pattern.
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Old 04-22-2015, 10:37 PM   #2
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Ecobeast six is my prediction.

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Old 04-22-2015, 10:46 PM   #3
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Hopefully, dodge will get in the game and make a new platform for the Challenger, to compete with Mustangs and Camaros. Basically the R/T competes against 3Vs, machs, firebirds, GTO (5.7), new edge Cobras( non- termis), 2V GTs, and Camaros SS and Z/28. Since it can't compete against even the six bangers of the new cars. SRT8 barely out runs the SS and GT, and the hellcat is doing good though. But then again it needs to go on a diet quick then hit the gym for some more power...
Just want to see challenger up there with the other two...


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Old 04-23-2015, 10:41 PM   #4
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Hopefully, dodge will get in the game and make a new platform for the Challenger, to compete with Mustangs and Camaros. Basically the R/T competes against 3Vs, machs, firebirds, GTO (5.7), new edge Cobras( non- termis), 2V GTs, and Camaros SS and Z/28. Since it can't compete against even the six bangers of the new cars. SRT8 barely out runs the SS and GT, and the hellcat is doing good though. But then again it needs to go on a diet quick then hit the gym for some more power...
Just want to see challenger up there with the other two...


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It's going to be at least a few years before Chrysler releases a smaller RWD V8 car.

The Challenger has been basically increasing sales month after month for a few years now. My guess is around 2017/2018 before we even know about it's replacement. With the redesigned 2015, it might stay that way for a while since Ford dropped a deuce with the new Mustang and the 2016 Camaro still being an unknown as far as looks.



I don't see Ford having an immediate response to the 6th gen Camaro besides the GT350 which was taking aim at the previous generation Camaro Z/28.

Hell, Fords biggest competitor currently isn't the Challenger or Camaro, it's the 13/14 S197's. The new Mustang is barely any faster in a straight line, is slower on a road course (with track pack or whatever it's called) than the current overweight Camaro 1LE and Boss 302, and has looks that the majority of people don't care for.

The 2016 Camaro will be lighter, likely by at least a few hundred pounds less than the current version. It will have the new LT1 and will probably be making 450-460 hp and 450-465 lb-ft of torque and will likely be putting it down through a 7 speed manual or 8 spd automatic, same as the vette. It will also have the magnetic ride suspension but it will be 2 or 3 generations ahead of what Ford has. GM had a huge part in creating it after all. Also, the Camaro will likely have better EPA MPG ratings.

GM also has the ATS-V's 3.6L TT V6 to fight any possible Ecoboost V6 Mustang. This engine makes 464 hp and 445 lb-ft of torque.

GM simply has Ford in a bad spot unless Ford has something amazing. I think this could easily turn out like it did in the 90's. GM could stomp Ford so bad in a single generation that Ford will simply stop being competitive for 15+ years.

I hope that's not the case...
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:03 PM   #5
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What next after Camaro release?

I just wish Dodge would stop ruining the Challenger, it's platform is a slightly modded seventh gen Charger for goodness sake. They need to make a new platform for the Challenger alone and maybe the Cuda when it comes. But it's too heavy and the tires are too small. I'm so critical about them because I know they can do better than this. I own a Challenger, and in its time it was a very competitive muscle car. The new challenger barely competes with the other brands. R/T is basically a competitor to the late 90s and the entire 2000s decade, of muscle cars, minus the terminator, GT500, and the current SS. Hell, I've even witness an R/T being outran by a lightly modded 2V. The SRT8 can barely outrun its competitors mid level muscle cars, and dodge had to go another leap to finally be up there with the ZL1 and GT500. It took them how long to finally have a GT500 and ZL1 competitor, 5 years. And now they are getting ready to lose again. I don't claim to be the smartest guy in the world, but Dodge is falling behind as Ford and GM are running leaps and bounds ahead...
I do agree with you GM is doing great. Fords doing well. Dodge is apparently satisfied being left behind by its competitors, and I'm just irritated they aren't doing anything about it...


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Old 04-23-2015, 11:17 PM   #6
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I just wish dodge would close the doors
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Old 04-24-2015, 01:38 PM   #7
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It's going to be at least a few years before Chrysler releases a smaller RWD V8 car.

The Challenger has been basically increasing sales month after month for a few years now. My guess is around 2017/2018 before we even know about it's replacement. With the redesigned 2015, it might stay that way for a while since Ford dropped a deuce with the new Mustang and the 2016 Camaro still being an unknown as far as looks.



I don't see Ford having an immediate response to the 6th gen Camaro besides the GT350 which was taking aim at the previous generation Camaro Z/28.

Hell, Fords biggest competitor currently isn't the Challenger or Camaro, it's the 13/14 S197's. The new Mustang is barely any faster in a straight line, is slower on a road course (with track pack or whatever it's called) than the current overweight Camaro 1LE and Boss 302, and has looks that the majority of people don't care for.

The 2016 Camaro will be lighter, likely by at least a few hundred pounds less than the current version. It will have the new LT1 and will probably be making 450-460 hp and 450-465 lb-ft of torque and will likely be putting it down through a 7 speed manual or 8 spd automatic, same as the vette. It will also have the magnetic ride suspension but it will be 2 or 3 generations ahead of what Ford has. GM had a huge part in creating it after all. Also, the Camaro will likely have better EPA MPG ratings.

GM also has the ATS-V's 3.6L TT V6 to fight any possible Ecoboost V6 Mustang. This engine makes 464 hp and 445 lb-ft of torque.

GM simply has Ford in a bad spot unless Ford has something amazing. I think this could easily turn out like it did in the 90's. GM could stomp Ford so bad in a single generation that Ford will simply stop being competitive for 15+ years.

I hope that's not the case...
I think that Ford is going to be dropping a 500+whp GT "Ecobeast" and we're going to have a "old school NA V8 vs newfangled boosted tuner motor" war going on that I never honestly thought would happen with Camaro vs Mustang. Ford is already pretty much guaranteeing a 10 speed auto and they are dumping some stupid amount of money into a brand new plant in Mexico for the Getrag so expect to see a new stick shift produced soon. Although honestly the MT82 is a very good trans, just has a bad reputation from the completely factory ****ed shifters/clutch assist/etc...

Biggest thing I agree with is that Ford laid a turd with the S550. Looks are very polarizing unlike the 11-14 that was almost universally loved. Its not any faster in the 1/4, the Boss and current 1LE are faster around the road courses etc... They went for creature comforts, technology and a global market hoping more people would care about that sort of thing than enthusiasts. They might win that bet honestly, time will tell.

If all the rumors are true, and its looking like they are with this platform vs the S550 (since its already out on the CTSV) then the platform for the new Camaro itself is going to be WAY better and that really trumps everything at the end of the day.

I'm just waiting for "ALPHA" license plates or How to Train your Dragon 2 references to start popping up in Camaroland...

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I just wish dodge would close the doors
They should have in 2008. So should GM honestly. Taxpayers bailed them both out and then both had to eat the $40bn something loss in the end IIRC. At least Ford secured their own line of credit and didn't take the bailout. Anyway, there is nothing, NOTHING that GM makes besides the Vette/Camaro/some Cadillacs that is worth buying IMO. Dodge... the Hellcat is awesome... if you want to drop 6 figures. The regular Challenger is a slow pig that is priced way above the Mustang and Camaro.

Then you have Ford which, while they might have ****ed up the Mustang for this generation, the rest of the lineup is selling great, they are bringing the Focus RS to the states finally and the F150 is stomping a mudhole in all competition so yeah.

/rant
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Old 04-24-2015, 01:55 PM   #8
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GM is still under a government bankruptcy shield btw


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Old 04-24-2015, 01:59 PM   #9
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GM performance is great.

But lately it seems like they put everything into performance because they know they can make other ****ty cars and get away with it.


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Old 04-24-2015, 02:25 PM   #10
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What is the alpha comment mean? Also the how to train your dragon?
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Old 04-24-2015, 02:41 PM   #11
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What is the alpha comment mean? Also the how to train your dragon?
Alpha is the name of the platform that the next Camaro will be built on, along with several other RWD cars from GM.
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Old 04-24-2015, 03:11 PM   #12
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What is the alpha comment mean? Also the how to train your dragon?

It's the equivalent of S550


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Old 04-24-2015, 03:18 PM   #13
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How to train your Dragon 2 had an "Alpha". I have a kid...

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Old 04-25-2015, 11:27 AM   #14
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It's going to be at least a few years before Chrysler releases a smaller RWD V8 car.



The Challenger has been basically increasing sales month after month for a few years now. My guess is around 2017/2018 before we even know about it's replacement. With the redesigned 2015, it might stay that way for a while since Ford dropped a deuce with the new Mustang and the 2016 Camaro still being an unknown as far as looks.







I don't see Ford having an immediate response to the 6th gen Camaro besides the GT350 which was taking aim at the previous generation Camaro Z/28.



Hell, Fords biggest competitor currently isn't the Challenger or Camaro, it's the 13/14 S197's. The new Mustang is barely any faster in a straight line, is slower on a road course (with track pack or whatever it's called) than the current overweight Camaro 1LE and Boss 302, and has looks that the majority of people don't care for.



The 2016 Camaro will be lighter, likely by at least a few hundred pounds less than the current version. It will have the new LT1 and will probably be making 450-460 hp and 450-465 lb-ft of torque and will likely be putting it down through a 7 speed manual or 8 spd automatic, same as the vette. It will also have the magnetic ride suspension but it will be 2 or 3 generations ahead of what Ford has. GM had a huge part in creating it after all. Also, the Camaro will likely have better EPA MPG ratings.



GM also has the ATS-V's 3.6L TT V6 to fight any possible Ecoboost V6 Mustang. This engine makes 464 hp and 445 lb-ft of torque.



GM simply has Ford in a bad spot unless Ford has something amazing. I think this could easily turn out like it did in the 90's. GM could stomp Ford so bad in a single generation that Ford will simply stop being competitive for 15+ years.



I hope that's not the case...

The GT350 was not built in response to the Z/28....the Z/28 was built in response to the Boss 302. So Chevy was the one playing catch up my friend. Not Ford. Do you honestly think all those engineers focused on an outdated car when their come would be coming out?? No. They plan things for the future competition as well.


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Old 04-25-2015, 07:39 PM   #15
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Alpha is the name of the platform that the next Camaro will be built on, along with several other RWD cars from GM.
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It's the equivalent of S550


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How to train your Dragon 2 had an "Alpha". I have a kid...

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Thanks for getting me on the same page.
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Old 04-25-2015, 09:35 PM   #16
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The GT350 was not built in response to the Z/28....the Z/28 was built in response to the Boss 302. So Chevy was the one playing catch up my friend. Not Ford. Do you honestly think all those engineers focused on an outdated car when their come would be coming out?? No. They plan things for the future competition as well.


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That's funny considering the 1LE Camaro is faster around the majority of tracks than the Boss. The Boss was a joke, for what it's name implies.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:50 PM   #17
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That's funny considering the 1LE Camaro is faster around the majority of tracks than the Boss. The Boss was a joke, for what it's name implies.

Alright man


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Old 04-28-2015, 04:33 AM   #18
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A lot of S550 haters here. But Im seeing a lot of them on the road.


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Old 04-28-2015, 08:15 AM   #19
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There are a lot of Priuses on the road too...

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Old 04-28-2015, 11:07 AM   #20
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There are a lot of Priuses on the road too...

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Old 04-29-2015, 10:57 PM   #21
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Camaro always chases Ford for a while then jumps ahead for a little bit.

Ford definitely did what most of us feared...built a Mustang for Europe and The U.S. Market was a secondary consideration.

I really don't see that many 15's around. And when I do, it's just, hey a 15 mustang. They don't have the appeal the 05's had when they came out.

Challenger is a fatass, at least it has design cues from the 70's challenger. Unlike the crappy charger that just got badging and no design. It's funny how no one talks about the charger when talking Mustangs or Camaros.

For some reason Ford seems to offer the first redesign with limited options and then offer more each year. All the effort went to the turbo 4 banger and the IRS. So I guess it'll be 2017 before they offer serious HP for he GT.

Why offer a new model that doesn't outperform or destroy the previous model?


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Old 04-29-2015, 11:07 PM   #22
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Camaro always chases Ford for a while then jumps ahead for a little bit.

Ford definitely did what most of us feared...built a Mustang for Europe and The U.S. Market was a secondary consideration.

I really don't see that many 15's around. And when I do, it's just, hey a 15 mustang. They don't have the appeal the 05's had when they came out.

Challenger is a fatass, at least it has design cues from the 70's challenger. Unlike the crappy charger that just got badging and no design. It's funny how no one talks about the charger when talking Mustangs or Camaros.

For some reason Ford seems to offer the first redesign with limited options and then offer more each year. All the effort went to the turbo 4 banger and the IRS. So I guess it'll be 2017 before they offer serious HP for he GT.

Why offer a new model that doesn't outperform or destroy the previous model?


Chevy runs deep, don't step in Chevy.
1- Because the production Eco6 isn't quite there yet.

2- They need the Eco6 in the F-150s to win over enough ppl to get away with replacing the 5.0 with it in at least a "base" GT.

3- How much more power does Joe Schmuck need than the current 430hp Coyote? I mean seriously.

4- Those that do... the new Coyote has stronger internals than the previous version, like 800hp strong. Slap a blower on it and call it.


Agree that the 2015 has like... a curiosity vibe to it more than a drool vibe that you get when you see a real nice tricked out S197 or SN95. Or Fox... Ford hit a home run in 2010 with the body and then turned it into a grand slam with the Coyote driveline. And then the S550 happened and you found out Sosa was using a corked bat.
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Old 04-29-2015, 11:22 PM   #23
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2- They need the Eco6 in the F-150s to win over enough ppl to get away with replacing the 5.0 with it in at least a "base" GT.

3- How much more power does Joe Schmuck need than the current 430hp Coyote? I mean seriously.

I don't see Ford offering an Eco6 in a base GT and a 5.0 as a better GT. it's not cost effective.
If they go Eco6 for the GT, then the GT350 would be the only 8. I see Ford dumping the V6 and offering only the Turbo 4 and the Coyote. They are just now going to use the flat crank 5.2.

Joe Schmuck needs enough HP to thrash a Camaro and or a Challenger.


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Old 04-29-2015, 11:31 PM   #24
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Lol touche. I dunno I see the Eco6 being the base Mustang GT engine in the future. The Cyclone will go bye bye which is ashame because it is a REALLY good engine. But with continual gov't fuel economy restrictions and how expensive it is for Ford to make the Coyote compared to the Eco... yeah its coming. Not sure if the flat plane 5.2 will be an option for the GT either, that might be GT350 exclusive and the current S550 Coyote will remain as a pricey option to tack onto a GT that already can get near $50k fully optioned.
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Old 04-30-2015, 12:02 AM   #25
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I know they're pushing the Eco6, but I don't think the market will bear a non v8 GT.
CAFE standards keep rising, but GT's aren't even half of mustang sales.

If they dump the coyote for the Eco6, the mustang will end quickly.


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Old 04-30-2015, 01:54 PM   #26
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Fords biggest mistake on the 2015's are the engines. The 2.3 EB and the 3.7 should have been dumped. The performance difference between the two is practically none existent (stock). The base engine should have been the 2.7L EB V6 (325hp/375tq) from the F150 and then a better (450hp/420tq 5.2L) Coyote for the GT.

Doing that would have cut down costs as there would be no more 3.7L V6 in Fords lineup, the 2.3L EB4 would still be around in current/future FWD/RWD/AWD platforms and could have even been the base engine in the overseas market Mustangs. This would also have cost savings since the base F150 engine would likely be Fords highest selling engine in North America.

By adding displacement to the Coyote, they could have made a much better car at both ends of the option scale while still maintaining a performance gap between the base (2.7L EB V6 325hp/375tq) and GT (5.2L 450hp/420tq), all while allowing for the 5.2L flat plane crank in the GT350 with the possibility of parts sharing between the V8's.

This also would have forced GM to step up on their end if they want to offer anything better while allowing Ford to easily counter and ramp up the power without additional major costs.
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Old 04-30-2015, 01:56 PM   #27
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Old 04-30-2015, 02:26 PM   #28
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Old 04-30-2015, 06:28 PM   #29
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Ford isn't going to dump the V6 until the Ecoboost catches up. The six cylinder options have been the lifeblood of this car since its inception. There are a lot of people that remember the shoddy domestic turbo cars of the 80s, and influence their kids not to buy a vehicle with a turbo motor because of it. Ecoboost is going to take some time to catch on, but Ford is currently the top selling brand with millennials so I think the v6 option will be dropped within ten years.

Frankly, Ford doesn't have to do anything with the Mustang to stifle Chevrolet. Ford Mustang is a brand, and it sells on name value alone. The newest generation of Mustang isn't really a hit with the hardcore audience, but they're reaching a larger demographic. Look for Ford to go more conservative with the next facelift of the S550.
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Old 05-01-2015, 04:34 PM   #30
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The 2.7L Ecoboost is lighter and almost as powerful as the 3.5L Ecoboost.

The tested the 0-60 times for two F-150's one with each of the above engines.

The 2.7L Eco had 3.55 gears vs the 3.5L Eco with 3.31 gears, and the 2.7L Eco was 0.2 seconds faster. Partly due to the 110 lbs ligher, partly due to the gears.

If they had the 2.7L Eco boost in the mustang... it would be an EcoBeastĀ© for as a base model.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:20 PM   #31
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Waiting for Ford to bring back the SVO lol.
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Old 05-01-2015, 09:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
Waiting for Ford to bring back the SVO lol.

The car or the Ford Division? The 86 SVO was a piece of crap. It had turbo lag and was nothing like the GT.


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Old 05-01-2015, 09:52 PM   #33
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I mean bring back the name on some sort of special edition eco.

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Old 05-01-2015, 11:20 PM   #34
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Gotcha.


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Old 05-04-2015, 01:24 AM   #35
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The V6 is not going away. It is the bread and butter Mustang that gets new buyers. You cannot get a blower engine for less. The Ecoboost is about $10k higher than the V6. The advantage the Ecoboost has, is that you can get factory warranted parts and tune that will make it out run the stock GT, and is the better track performer. The GT is and always be a V8 version. To offer anything other than a V8 would be suicide for Ford. It would be great if the Ecoboost engine was replaced with the 2.7L V6 Ecoboost. From the factory performance would be closer to the V8 and with the same type of factory upgrades, would blow most V8s away.

As it becomes necessary, Ford will start doing more weight reduction, and making style tweaks. I am not a fan of the coupe, but the convertible looks great. I was looking at a Ruby Red GT yesterday and it was gorgeous.
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