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Old 11-05-2014, 01:23 PM   #386
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Who gives a **** about the 3.7? Its a 3.7. Anything smaller than a 4.6 is point less. Am I missing the point
Yes. You may be missing the point.
They need to sell a certain amount of cars with the more fuel-efficient engines to counterbalance the cars with the less fuel-efficient engines so that they can comply with the average fuel economy standards, for the entire line of vehicles, set by CAFE.
In essence, we are not going to be able to have the V8's, or whatever "Muscle Cars" that they have in mind, without the engines that are capable of greater fuel-efficiency to raise the average fuel economy number in order to satisfy the feds...
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:45 PM   #387
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I'm guessing your just to young to know about:

The "BUICK" Grand Sport.
It was a V6 Muscle car.
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Haha no, I'm an old guy. I'm 46 lol. Yup! I remember the Buick Grand Nationals. I really liked them, but not the sound. It's still hard to classify those as "muscle cars", in the classic sense anyway. That was a special car Buick made for a few years. That V6 engine was put in the Trans Am for one year when the T/A was an Indy 500 pace car. 1989 maybe..? They were all white, but the engine had some lessor parts on it or else it would have been faster than the GN's ever were lol.

In my eyes, a muscle car is a V8 powered torque monster that is setup essentially for drag racing. You could agrue the GN was built for just that, so I think I would lose that agruement. All the legendary 6 cylinder Mustangs have been nice, mild manored sporty type cars, up until 2011. It's just hard for me to classify it in with the other muscle cars of the past and present.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:12 PM   #388
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You're right and wrong. Yes they had 4 banger options for those years. But the majority were just Econobox engines and not intended to offer any performance. Really, only the 84-86 turbos were supposed to be performance cars as an alternative to the V8. Since the turbo 15's can run with the GT after a tune and small mods, it's a whole different concept and will push out the V6 in all likely hood.

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That's kind of irrelevant because the way cars are marketed has changed. Unless you get into hybrids nobody makes an 88 HP car anymore that takes 10 minutes to hit 60 MPH. The Mustang V6 or ecoboost isn't really an alternative to the V8 which is abundant when talking to people who buy the GT's. They never even considered a base engine model.

If you look at civics, accords, altimas, etc. they are all marketed as having a certain level of performance to them although there clearly not race cars. That is the market that Ford is hoping to compete with when creating the base mustang. Someone looking for a fun daily driver.

Someone who is shopping for a Civic Si is more likely to buy a base Mustang now as a substitute. Whereas someone buying a GT or looking for that level of performance probable wouldn't consider a V6/ ecoboost as an equal substitute.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:13 PM   #389
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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
Yes. You may be missing the point.
They need to sell a certain amount of cars with the more fuel-efficient engines to counterbalance the cars with the less fuel-efficient engines so that they can comply with the average fuel economy standards, for the entire line of vehicles, set by CAFE.
In essence, we are not going to be able to have the V8's, or whatever "Muscle Cars" that they have in mind, without the engines that are capable of greater fuel-efficiency to raise the average fuel economy number in order to satisfy the feds...
All true, but another point is that the engines don't have to be in the same car line. In other words, mustangs could all be V8 or V10, as long as they have a sufficient number of 4 banger fiestas being sold. Ford sells a lot of non V8 mustangs because of price and fuel economy, which helps their CAFE average and one reason why the V6 will go away. The turbo 4 will really help their average.


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Old 11-05-2014, 02:27 PM   #390
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That's kind of irrelevant because the way cars are marketed has changed. Unless you get into hybrids nobody makes an 88 HP car anymore that takes 10 minutes to hit 60 MPH. The Mustang V6 or ecoboost isn't really an alternative to the V8 which is abundant when talking to people who buy the GT's. They never even considered a base engine model.

If you look at civics, accords, altimas, etc. they are all marketed as having a certain level of performance to them although there clearly not race cars. That is the market that Ford is hoping to compete with when creating the base mustang. Someone looking for a fun daily driver.

Someone who is shopping for a Civic Si is more likely to buy a base Mustang now as a substitute. Whereas someone buying a GT or looking for that level of performance probable wouldn't consider a V6/ ecoboost as an equal substitute.
You're backing my point. Ford only made 4 cylinder mustangs for economy, except for the 84-86 and 2015. The original opinion about this implied that a 4 banger performance mustang was very common, by siting the models other than 84-86.

The base model is an alternative to the GT for a large demographic. People less than 25 can't afford insurance for a GT or a GT. for that matter or both together. People that can afford a GT and want the performance will not consider anything less. I would not buy a Mustang that wasn't a GT V8, but that's my preference.


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Old 11-05-2014, 02:30 PM   #391
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You're backing my point. Ford only made 4 cylinder mustangs for economy, except for the 84-86 and 2015. The original opinion about this implied that a 4 banger performance mustang was very common, by siting the models other than 84-86.

The base model is an alternative to the GT for a large demographic. People less than 25 can't afford insurance for a GT or a GT. for that matter or both together. People that can afford a GT and want the performance will not consider anything less. I would not buy a Mustang that wasn't a GT V8, but that's my preference.


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They made them in 74-78 too.


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Old 11-05-2014, 02:36 PM   #392
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Mustangz hit the nail on the head I think. The Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards took a big jump in 2011 and they are getting bumped up again in 2016. This probably explains the demise of the Cyclone. They are going to have to start making concessions with their engine choices to be able to comply with the new standards.
And we have all been wondering about the manufacturers decisions to build these oversized versions of 60's and 70's pony cars? This Car and Driver article will give you some insight on why they're doing what they're doing...
How Automakers Will Meet 2016 CAFE Standards - Feature - Car and Driver

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IMO this is a great thing. Notice how gas prices are going down? This is not an accident. Increased production from OPEC and in the Western Hemisphere yes but also because there are so many more fuel efficient vehicles on the road now, demand is going down.

I wonder if ppl will consider an all electric Mustang a "muscle" car in 20-25 years when battery tech is at a point where electircs will get the same or better range than we do now and full rapid charge in 10 minutes at a rest stop. Anyone who knows electric motors knows that the performance potential for them is through the roof.

In the meantime, I'll keep drooling over the last gen Coyotes until I buy my next house and then can not have to worry about a new car loan effing up a mortgage app lol.
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:45 PM   #393
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I kinda think the "muscle car" moniker is dying away and "true sports car" is what the modern Mustang is becoming. It's performance is much more all-around compared to straight line performance.


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Old 11-05-2014, 03:25 PM   #394
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IMO this is a great thing. Notice how gas prices are going down? This is not an accident. Increased production from OPEC and in the Western Hemisphere yes but also because there are so many more fuel efficient vehicles on the road now, demand is going down.

I wonder if ppl will consider an all electric Mustang a "muscle" car in 20-25 years when battery tech is at a point where electircs will get the same or better range than we do now and full rapid charge in 10 minutes at a rest stop. Anyone who knows electric motors knows that the performance potential for them is through the roof.

In the meantime, I'll keep drooling over the last gen Coyotes until I buy my next house and then can not have to worry about a new car loan effing up a mortgage app lol.
I believe that it is as well. Not only have oil prices leveled off and recently dropped, but it's become less expensive, per mile, to operate the vehicles, as far as fuel costs go.
On the downside, automobiles have become much more complicated and expensive!

Why not an all electric Mustang? For many people, the range is adequate and I see quite a few Teslas on the road here in Northern CA. If people will spend 60-100k on a Tesla, why wouldn't they spend 50k on a electric Mustang?
And no more oil changes or finicky transmissions to deal with!
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:27 PM   #395
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How about a hybrid V8?
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:43 PM   #396
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How about a hybrid V8?
An EcoBoost hybrid maybe?

Hopefully they'll leave the V8's alone for a while and not weigh them down with a bunch of electronics and batteries.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:44 PM   #397
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I buy the v8 for the sOund and feel anything less would be ashame I dont buy a gt fot is fuel mileage

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Old 11-05-2014, 03:46 PM   #398
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Just an idea for some people. There's a crowd for everything. I'll stick with an NA or FI V8. No hybrids.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:55 PM   #399
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Who on ME will buy a 2015..?

If you only think a V8 belongs in the Mustang you don't truly understand the Heratige of a Mustang and should NOT call yourself a Mustang enthusiast. Yea it is what most people know it for, but there is much more to it.


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Old 11-05-2014, 04:04 PM   #400
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If you only think a V8 belongs in the Mustang you don't truly understand the Heratige of a Mustang and should NOT call yourself a Mustang enthusiast. Yea it is what most people know it for, but there is much more to it.


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Agreed. Without the 4 & 6 cylinder engines, we wouldn't have a Mustang now.
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Old 11-05-2014, 04:27 PM   #401
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Agreed. Without the 4 & 6 cylinder engines, we wouldn't have a Mustang now.

Yup, and I agree. But these models weren't considered "muscle cars" then or now. Like I said though, I believe the Mustang is changing its category to more of an actual sports car.


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Old 11-05-2014, 04:32 PM   #402
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Agreed. Without the 4 & 6 cylinder engines, we wouldn't have a Mustang now.
Yea the 4&6 cylinder played a roll in establishing the mustang but the v8 made it legendary along with its curves and its sound and feel a mustang aint nothing with out it. 2015 may have the power and the feel but to me it to dont have thw look of a muscle car.

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Old 11-05-2014, 04:48 PM   #403
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Hi scottydsntknow

Gas prices """ALWAYS""" go down before an election.
Just wait and now the the Election is over you will see a tremendous increase.
It will go sky high and then come down to more then it was before the false down pricing started.
It happens every time.
Ronnie
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Old 11-05-2014, 04:50 PM   #404
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I kinda think the "muscle car" moniker is dying away and "true sports car" is what the modern Mustang is becoming. It's performance is much more all-around compared to straight line performance.


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Agreed. In a couple of years the "muscle car" look may be no more.

Has anybody seen pics of the MMD 15 mustang already? IMO, the MMD it looks nicer than the RTR; but it doesn't have much of a "muscle car" look to me.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #405
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What else ? Mpg ?? Really...who buys a performance car and worries about not getting Prius level mileage ?


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I personally think this is a waste of money. Unless you specifically want to make a 6 cylinder go fast, you'll save so much money having just bought the GT. Don't give that MPG BS because after you make your 6 cylinder go fast, you won't be getting great MPG anyway.

So, people will call me a hater, but I'm not. I wouldn't buy a v6 Mustang unless I was buying it for daily driving duty and I wanted it to be a Mustang. There is no such thing as a v6 muscle car. The only reason they gave the 2011 3.7 so much power was because of competition. The Camaro v6 had 300hp and the Mustang needed to compete. This is why you are seeing the 3.7 be phased out. Ford now has the ecoboost 4 for the Euro market and it whoops a 6cyl so they are killing two birds with one stone.

Now, everybody knows I don't hate on 6ers on this site and I won't start now, I'm just stating some facts.


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...not really :/

CLamp has managed to maintain (allegedly improve) mileage with his turbo kit. He hasn't responded to sending me a kit to test it out, though...


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Originally Posted by straybullitt View Post
Yes. You may be missing the point.
They need to sell a certain amount of cars with the more fuel-efficient engines to counterbalance the cars with the less fuel-efficient engines so that they can comply with the average fuel economy standards, for the entire line of vehicles, set by CAFE.
In essence, we are not going to be able to have the V8's, or whatever "Muscle Cars" that they have in mind, without the engines that are capable of greater fuel-efficiency to raise the average fuel economy number in order to satisfy the feds...

Here's the thing- the 4 isn't much more fuel efficient than the 6. I think ~3% combined...

I imagine it's more about the motor SIZE, as that's how many EU countries tax. Cylinder count/ci.




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Gas prices """ALWAYS""" go down before an election.
Just wait and now the the Election is over you will see a tremendous increase.
It will go sky high and then come down to more then it was before the false down pricing started.
It happens every time.
Ronnie
I'd have to search, but I hear these prices will stay this way.

Somebody earlier said the new v6 did NOT lose 5hp, and I thought the same. I think it was Rap, but someone posted a link about a new engine part needed to make it fit (intake manifold, maybe?) and that is what dropped the power.



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Old 11-05-2014, 05:08 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
Gas prices """ALWAYS""" go down before an election.
Just wait and now the the Election is over you will see a tremendous increase.
It will go sky high and then come down to more then it was before the false down pricing started.
It happens every time.
Ronnie
Like UltArc, I've heard the gas prices will stay like they are for some time. I haven't looked into it...yet.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:14 PM   #407
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if it weren't for the V8, the mustang would have never stuck around. That's why they gave it the V8
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:30 PM   #408
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Are we sure its a Fusiostang?

I thought it was a Mustiesta...

Or was it a Mustos?

I forget. Of course, Ford is the ONLY company that does this.

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
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Old 11-05-2014, 05:36 PM   #409
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It's a good thing highly successful companies like BMW don't try to do stuff like this!

Wait a second...the 1...the 3...the 5...the 7...wait a second...

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Old 11-05-2014, 05:43 PM   #410
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Okay, so maybe low end companies like BMW and Ford do this stuff. Surely no one else does. Not like Aston, or anyone else.

They wouldn't make each of their four vehicles look alike to make the brand more recognizable...no...

....Gah! NOOOOOOOOOOO

C'mon.

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Old 11-05-2014, 05:44 PM   #411
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Yeah bro. Well said. I was totally thinking the same thing. Who gives a crap about the 4.6? Anything smaller than a 5.0 is so 5 year models ago. 🙋

The Mustang Source Website is complete trash.
I care about the 4.6

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Old 11-05-2014, 05:51 PM   #412
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if it weren't for the V8, the mustang would have never stuck around. That's why they gave it the V8
Same can be said for the other engines in it.
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:16 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
Okay, so maybe low end companies like BMW and Ford do this stuff. Surely no one else does. Not like Aston, or anyone else.

They wouldn't make each of their four vehicles look alike to make the brand more recognizable...no...

....Gah! NOOOOOOOOOOO

C'mon.

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

THat analogy does not apply here. BMW, Aston Martin, and brands like that are performance brands. THey don't make any economy models, so they can all look alike and they will all still be associated with performance.


Ford makes mostly economy models, so when they come out with a performance car, it has to look a lot different than the economy turds.


NONE of the Aston martins look like economy class cars.
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:21 PM   #414
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Okay, so maybe low end companies like BMW and Ford do this stuff. Surely no one else does. Not like Aston, or anyone else.

They wouldn't make each of their four vehicles look alike to make the brand more recognizable...no...

....Gah! NOOOOOOOOOOO

C'mon.

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Lol, I tried to tell'em.


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Old 11-05-2014, 06:22 PM   #415
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You don't know much about cars, do you?

(Though they stopped production, it ran for about five years.)

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:24 PM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie948 View Post
Gas prices """ALWAYS""" go down before an election.
Just wait and now the the Election is over you will see a tremendous increase.
It will go sky high and then come down to more then it was before the false down pricing started.
It happens every time.
Ronnie


Yeah you will notice it goes up even more when libtards win elections. TAX TAX TAX REGULATE REGULATE REGULATE. I see it as them trying to enslave us. Take all of my earnings and tell me what the hell I can do with my life. That's slavery.
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:24 PM   #417
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:25 PM   #418
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BMW doesn't make economy focused cars, either.

(Funny how their hybrids even look like their ICE friends...funny, it's almost like they want people to know they are all the same brand!).

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:27 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Panther140 View Post
Yeah you will notice it goes up even more when libtards win elections. TAX TAX TAX REGULATE REGULATE REGULATE. I see it as them trying to enslave us. Take all of my earnings and tell me what the hell I can do with my life. That's slavery.

That's because the republicans own all the oil companies or have a stake in it. They ratchet the prices up and down when needed.


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Old 11-05-2014, 06:27 PM   #420
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You don't know much about cars, do you?

(Though they stopped production, it ran for about five years.)

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.


When aston martin starts making their top of the line performance car look as similar to that car as fords new mustang is to the fucus, THEN your analogy would fit.
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