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Old 02-18-2014, 05:28 AM   #71
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I learn driving in the mountains of Korea where the roads were steep and sheet ice. I was licensed for over twenty military vehicles, drove a deuce during a forest fire for two weeks, then a week later, was driving VIPs in limos, including a Presidential candidate, touring a flood that killed 264 people. I make no claims to be a great driver, but I know what I am doing. I have driven during blizzards and whiteouts. With so many cars today being FWD, the issue is not as big a deal, but a lot of older drivers love the Panther models, and like all big RWD cars, they are prone to locked front/turning rear wheels.
I didn't mean to question your driving credentials, I consider everyone on here to be at the very least capable to above average driving ability wise with some of us having been around a lot longer than others. I have no issue with you statement when talking about older rwd cars, but with the current generation rwd sports cars...traction control and stability control, everything short of AI driving you where you want to go....shifting into neutral to stop IMO isn't needed. Driving a deuce and half when I was in 20+ years ago was fun though.....
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:21 AM   #72
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I have done more than my share of driving in snow and ice. If you ever watch most of the people trying to stop on slick surfaces, you will notice that while the front brakes are locked up, the rear wheels will still be turning on a RWD. Brakes are front biased on cars. You should control braking without relying on electronics to CYA. When you are braking on a slick surfaces, put the car in neutral for maximum control. The engine is only going to be for when you are off the brakes. Just as important is knowing which routes to take and which to not. Any routes with stops on the up slope is asking for it. Also watch out for people who do not get enough speed to make it up a hill. They go too slow to have the needed momentum and get stuck, blocking the road, and sometimes sliding back.
Of course brakes are biased to the front. What you might be talking about is if you've completely CF'd your preparation for a braking event, you might want to pop it in neutral as you desperately seek to control the road speed with brakes you should have been controlling all along with your choice of gear. The rear wheels will only be still pushing on an automatic car. If you can keep your foot off the brake totally until the very end, great. This is one major reason why heavier 4WD trucks have a low range. Low range, not just for getting unstuck anymore.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:43 AM   #73
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I got an auto because dealing with CT/NYC traffic would have angered me beyond belief in a manual. However I do have access to my fathers 07 Mazda miata. People may laugh but that car shifts like butter and handles like its on rails. So much fun to drive on the twisty mountain roads in Maine.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:39 AM   #74
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I got an auto because dealing with CT/NYC traffic would have angered me beyond belief in a manual. However I do have access to my fathers 07 Mazda miata. People may laugh but that car shifts like butter and handles like its on rails. So much fun to drive on the twisty mountain roads in Maine.
that is true, they make for amazing track day cars, specially SC or turbo, i just would never daily one
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:33 PM   #75
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74 posts and nobody mentioned it yet

The problem with the automatic (at least on a 2013 which I got), is that it adds $2200 to the sticker price. No added cost for the manual.

Hell, for a little more than that ($2600 I believe), you can get the Track Pack option which includes 3.73 Torsen helical differential, 19x9" rims, Pirelli P-Zero tires (at $350 a pop retail), Brembo brakes up front, Boss 302 radiator, and engine oil cooler.

Moreover, the Track Pack is not offered on an auto car. Ford felt the gearing is too low.

Yeah, driving with the stick is fun, as long as you don't get caught in stop-and-go driving or muck around cramped parking lots all day, but in my case, I don't use the car as a daily driver so it's OK.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:00 PM   #76
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I thought I made it explicit that I was talking about automatics. With the new cars today, even the automatics probably don't have that problem, but if I am coasting downhill on a slick surface, I tend to move into neutral when I brake out of habit.

You have never lived until you have drifted a deuce on an icy mountain road. It is a thrill like no other.
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Old 02-19-2014, 08:50 AM   #77
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I bring up the auto point only because we are talking about what's "better" here.

A better choice with an auto heading down the slick hill is, the same as a manual. Before you head over the edge, select the lowest gear you can and roll the car down using as little brake as possible. This kills the auto push and helps hold your speed down without brakes.

ABS is awesome but, as you said, it won't overcome physics. Having no restraint on the car's buildup of forward momentum with engine braking, means more and more reliance on the brakes as you continue down the hill. This isn't a safe strategy.

It also prevents you from being immediately able to use the throttle gently to help correct a slide and you could precipitate a slide when you bang the car back into drive going down the slippery surface. A manual you can rev-match and snick down the box without bother, on any surface, if you weren't smart to select the best gear at the top of the hill.

Again, best to select the lowest gear before you need it and roll down the hill on as little brakes as possible. Goes for a Deuce, a 5.0 or a Mini.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:06 AM   #78
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I agree that using the engine to hold speed down is the best way. It is when you are going slowly down a hill and the light changes, or you have to stop due to an issue, there is a point where you have to use the brakes, and taking it out of gear is done at the last second. My whole point is the people approaching a stop and cannot figure out why their brakes are not working. I have even seen some who are stopped, but the rear wheels keep trying to move the car.

People do not understand their cars, do not have a connection to them anymore than they would a piece of furniture. Automatics are made for them and maybe that is a pity. If they had to pay more attention to actual driving, maybe they would not be on their electronics as much. There is no greater form of fun, than a winding road through the hills using a manual. But it can be almost as much fun with the new models with the sport shift feature. The button is not as satisfying as a short throw shifter, but does give more control. For a daily driver, it is the best of choices.

Also, I should mention that manuals may be obsolete in a few years. If as I predict, all cars will wind up with a form of hybrid drive in order to meet upcoming regs. I see it being a standard feature that cars and trucks will have small battery pack that runs all accessories (steering, water pump, A/C, etc.). It would use regenerative braking to charge, plus potentially solar power. It would allow the engine to remain off when the vehicle was not in motion and provide power for the first few seconds of motion. It is going to be heck on racers, but like always they will find ways around the problems.
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Old 02-19-2014, 11:08 AM   #79
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I have a auto I'm connected to my car I don't text and drive . You can't stereotype everyone into a group because we have autos. I can drive a m6 just fine had one for a yr and the trans was a pos I now have my auto which is tuned and fing love it
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Old 02-19-2014, 10:23 PM   #80
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Well stated. The Mustangs have come with both transmission options to please all the masses. Choose your poison, and enjoy the ride. My wife does not drive a manual. She simply does not want to learn. For both of us to enjoy our Mustang, I purchased an automatic. It has not diminished the enjoyment one bit. It's still a fine ride.
Agreed. The GT500 and Boss LSs with the auto sold like crazy...

/sarcasm
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Old 02-20-2014, 09:10 AM   #81
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It is agreed by me that manuals are going the way of the Dodo. Like the carburettor, they are reaching the end of the ability of that technology to meet the demands of the marketplace and regulatory bodies.

In a high powered car, a good DCT or a really well thought out juicebox with manual mode is going to work very well and meet ever increasing stringency in emissions and fuel economy.

What's still got me a bit bugged is the factory setup on the auto in the Mustang. The manual mode is still slow, as in D is better and, the whole feel of the box tends to be a bit lazy, running around. Tuned, it's magical but, that isn't an option for anyone wanting warranty support. I was kind of mad at this in 2011 when I bought the car. If there was an auto set up the way I wanted, with a tight manual mode and reasonably aggressive torque converter and maybe a bit snappier rear gearing, I'd have considered it, especially if I could pair it with all the other performance bits, which wasn't an option for 2012 cars.

Hence a loaded, Premium, Brembo, 3.73, MT82 car sits in the drive. A couple hundred in stabilizing bushings and a decent shift knob have made the experience much better. Still much cheaper than the auto option, even if the tune cost isn't considered.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:48 AM   #82
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I picked the manual so not any little girl or weeny could drive my car (A cool girl or a cool weeny that knows how to drive a manual transmission can drive it though ).
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:52 AM   #83
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And I picked auto to beat the weenies with manuals at the track muahah
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:04 PM   #84
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And I picked auto to beat the weenies with manuals at the track muahah
You are faster.

I would never drag race another automatic car seriously just because in my head I consider it a different class. Automatic has the advantage.

For fun I would still drag race with you though just for kicks and giggles Even though I would lose.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:09 PM   #85
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I got a manual so no one else could ever borrow my car cause majority of the people I know can't drive a manual. Time to add a stage 3 clutch so they really can't drive it lol
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #86
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Lol I do think the mt82 is fun just simply said the autos have come along way . But they do need a tune to perform the way they should .
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:20 PM   #87
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Besides heavy traffic, the problem with sticks are if you live in a hilly area. Fun if you live in downtown San Francisco and park your car on the street every day.

I live in a hilly area and one thing that closed the deal for me on the 2013 stick Mustangs is the Hill Holder function. Before you had to install a Hurst Roll Control to get the same function, and that was a ***** to install because you had to tap into the steel brake lines. The 2013 does it electronically. It prevents the car from rolling back for 2 seconds when you take your foot off the brake. It only works on grades >5% and can be disabled. However, only the '13-14s sticks have it.
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Old 02-20-2014, 01:29 PM   #88
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Um ...it's basic parking brake timed release. I live in a mountainous region and have never missed a hill holder. The one between the seats works well enough.
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Old 02-21-2014, 08:33 PM   #89
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I got a manual so no one else could ever borrow my car cause majority of the people I know can't drive a manual. Time to add a stage 3 clutch so they really can't drive it lol

Don't forget the AL flywheel, that thing will be very tricky for anybody including you to drive lol....my 2002 had the stage 3 and Fidanza and anyone who tried would always stall it 4 or 5 times before they would even get moving the first time
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:12 PM   #90
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I can't say that getting a manual would deter anyone I know. In fact, it would attract most of them. My wife would rather drive her 93 Shadow with manual than any automatic. If you want to be schooled, let my wife show you how to back a trailer. I consider myself good, but she is in a class all her own. Her sister drives a bus, another used to a long haul trucker w/her husband. Five sisters, and every one would be at home with a stick. A lot of skills are falling by the wayside. I used to pride myself on how efficient I ran my plant. Now computers are necessary because government regulations require efficiencies that humans cannot sustain.
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Old 02-22-2014, 06:16 PM   #91
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You automatic guys kill me... too efin funny!
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Old 02-22-2014, 08:04 PM   #92
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I know right on here and at the track we kill you
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Old 02-23-2014, 04:00 PM   #93
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You youngsters can have the manuals, when you grow up you'll get tired of all that shifting. Just remember that smooth is fast and the Mustang GT with the automatic is smooth and fast. Ole dragsters could power shift the manuals, I don't believe the new manuals can be "power shifted" like the muscle cars of old, though I could be wrong.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:48 PM   #94
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You are....wrong....

Modern cats power shift as well or better than old cars but it is nowhere near as necessary, as even the mushy stock shifter is better than what came in most mudclecars.

I am nearly 50...still liking the manual, despite 5 major knees surgeries before the age of 20.
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:51 PM   #95
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Yeah yeah... dont get butt hurt cause you bought an auto...

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Hahaha
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Old 02-23-2014, 05:56 PM   #96
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Hey guys I'm just curious to hear what you guys in the community are saying about this new auto-manual transmission ford has in all 13 up vehicles. Also is it true that the difference between that transmission and the manual is human error making it very easy to shift without having a clutch ? I'm just curious thanks !

On a serious note if your looking to have fun go with the manual. If your goin for quick shifts for a track or w.e go with auto. My fathers friend has an auto and a manual that's based on what he said.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:33 AM   #97
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Ok, I'm wrong about the power shifting. Anyway, manuals are fun, but after you get used to your car, it gets old, for me anyway. Just preference, I really have nothing against manuals, just chevys and mopars! When I hear that a Mustang with a V6 (manual or auto) beats a Challenger R/T or Camaro, I jump for joy, lol
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:07 AM   #98
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I DD my Mustang everyday, all city driving. This is no big deal compared to what it was like driving the snorting behemoths of yesteryear on an mt. Most of them needed both legs on the clutch pedal and had old Kenworth length and effort shift throws. It was a real workout driving a Muncie, Toploader, A833 Mopar or Long style clutch equipped car, for example.

Today, with a hydro clutch and two finger shift effort, no problemo.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:19 PM   #99
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I really have nothing against manuals, just chevys and mopars! When I hear that a Mustang with a V6 (manual or auto) beats a Challenger R/T or Camaro, I jump for joy, lol
+1

But we dont need to get any threads shut down... chevy has a huge following in here lmao!!!


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I am nearly 50...still liking the manual, despite 5 major knees surgeries before the age of 20.
Way to represent!!!
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Old 02-25-2014, 12:52 AM   #100
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I daily drive my manual in city and love it, auto is just too boring for me
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:23 AM   #101
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When you get to the age that I am and have done the things I've done, seen the things I've seen, being bored is not always a bad thing.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:54 AM   #102
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Lol
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:56 AM   #103
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I'm just saying....
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:56 AM   #104
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I hear ya
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Old 02-26-2014, 01:40 AM   #105
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I can't really chime in regarding 0-60 or 1/4 times. Only have this to add:

I love new technology, I love the way cars are vs. the way they used to be. People who say they dont make them like they used to are right... and thank God. That said.. shifting through gears for me isn't about the speed or 0-60 its about the experience, the interaction. It's a way to become part of the car and the drive, to feel yourself drive and experience the engine and horse power. An Auto would likely beat me down the line... but I would still win.
I couldn't agree more with this. While I want to take my mustang and make it faster thats not my sole focus. I just love the feel of a manual and the connection it makes with you and the road. Manual all the way for driving experience! I want to take mine to the track to see what it can do but not worried about a whole lot more than that.
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