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Old 06-11-2014, 11:14 AM   #1
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New Lincoln based on Mustang platform?

Rumors going around that there might be a Mustang based Lincoln in a couple years. Saw a couple stories on it in the past day, here is one: Lincoln to Borrow 2015 Ford Mustang Platform

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Old 06-12-2014, 06:11 PM   #2
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I have a thread about this in the General Car Discussion.
Lincoln building a mustang based car?
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:35 PM   #3
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That's a pretty crazy coincidence that we started both of the threads at the exact same MINUTE yesterday.
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Old 06-12-2014, 08:54 PM   #4
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That's a pretty crazy coincidence that we started both of the threads at the exact same MINUTE yesterday.
That's a bit creepy

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Old 06-13-2014, 02:31 PM   #5
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Maybe Lincoln's will actually look good.
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Old 06-13-2014, 03:16 PM   #6
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If someone makes a kit to make the Mustang look like this I may actually get one. Minus being hella flush
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Old 06-13-2014, 10:34 PM   #7
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Lincoln really needs to make a high value sports car. A two seat luxury car with fantastic performance and comfort. Using adaptive suspension tuning and putting the 3.5 turbo engine in it and you have a potentially great car.
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Old 06-15-2014, 12:45 PM   #8
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Lincoln really needs to make a high value sports car. A two seat luxury car with fantastic performance and comfort. Using adaptive suspension tuning and putting the 3.5 turbo engine in it and you have a potentially great car.

They need to make something equal to the CTS-V
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:08 PM   #9
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No doubt Lincoln will get its own version of the S550. Two reasons. One, to keep a unique platform for a niche vehicle like the Mustang is not fiscally responsible...Ford has done that up to now, but that was the old Ford...platform sharing is a given especially when you consider the world class level of the new chassis. Second reason. Lincoln desperately needs a halo car to get younger buyers (40-45 range) into the showroom and market itself as a truly new company (eg Lincoln Motor Cars) as they have been recently. Right now as an enthusiast and consumer, I'm not buying what Lincoln is selling. Cars are bland and I don't even look twice at Lincoln in terms of luxury/sport or sport/luxury...I'd rather get an Audi--it has the looks; quality and performance to back up the claims.

I'll bet we see a Lincoln Coupe within the next two model years-a MKIX perhaps and then a 4 door version using a stretched S550 platform.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:05 PM   #10
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The Lincoln needs to be a 2-door only. A 2+2 invites comparison to the Mustang. A sedan version would just be compared to the Caddy. A world class two seater is a key to attracting those who buy Vettes, and Ferraris back to Lincoln. The Mustang is the everyman's car. The Lincoln would be for those who want a high performance car with no compromises.
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:17 PM   #11
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Eh... I dunno, Lincoln does the whole "performance with no compromises" sedan. Its the MXZ and is basically a more luxurious SHO which is a very powerful vehicle in its own right.

Lincoln... I dunno is kind of the Blackberry of the luxury car brands if that makes sense. Great products but boring and nothing really wows. A S550 Lincoln might but I'd say they should pull out all the stops and do it in Carbon fiber with a Ford Racing Whipple on the Coyote and a truly world beating suspension setup to go against the Vette. Otherwise it'll just be like the MKZ where it just makes more sense to buy the SHO for way cheaper and get the same car. They'd buy the Stang with all the bells and whistles for a mid level Lincoln S550 IMO.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:43 PM   #12
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Lincoln... I dunno is kind of the Blackberry of the luxury car brands if that makes sense. Great products but boring and nothing really wows. A S550 Lincoln might but I'd say they should pull out all the stops and do it in Carbon fiber with a Ford Racing Whipple on the Coyote and a truly world beating suspension setup to go against the Vette.
They absolutely should do that. But they won't. Because Lincoln.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:43 PM   #13
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The Lincoln needs to be a 2-door only. A 2+2 invites comparison to the Mustang. A sedan version would just be compared to the Caddy. A world class two seater is a key to attracting those who buy Vettes, and Ferraris back to Lincoln. The Mustang is the everyman's car. The Lincoln would be for those who want a high performance car with no compromises.

I think you mean 2 seater but I agree nonetheless...however, I really think they will also need a 4 door sport sedan...yes it will be compared to a Cadillac, but isn't that the point?...today's Lincoln is barely compared to a Camry...
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Old 06-23-2014, 12:33 AM   #14
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I meant to say 2-door, 2-seat only. Avoiding a sedan version would be important because it limits design. A great design has to be limited. A Mustang sedan and station wagon have always been explored, but not produced. It mars the image for a pony car to be practical. Even though most are sold to practical people who use the car as a daily driver, they still want to feel adventurous.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:32 AM   #15
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The lifespan of a luxury two seater is usually very short unless it's a supercar or approaching super car such as the z06. Retro T-bird, Plymouth Prowler, Pontiac Fiero (sorry to mention this one) all were underpowered and short lived. Even the Ford GT and Cadillac XLR were not able to survive. If Lincoln is going to go Luxury performance, they need to compete with the CTS and Jaguar. While it seems beneficial to use the S550 platform for other vehicles, a Lincoln morphed Mustang seems to be another 67 Cougar venture lasting only 2-3 years.
It has to be a comfortable four seater with performance.
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Old 06-23-2014, 10:48 AM   #16
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The lifespan of a luxury two seater is usually very short unless it's a supercar or approaching super car such as the z06. Retro T-bird, Plymouth Prowler, Pontiac Fiero (sorry to mention this one) all were underpowered and short lived. Even the Ford GT and Cadillac XLR were not able to survive. If Lincoln is going to go Luxury performance, they need to compete with the CTS and Jaguar. While it seems beneficial to use the S550 platform for other vehicles, a Lincoln morphed Mustang seems to be another 67 Cougar venture lasting only 2-3 years.
It has to be a comfortable four seater with performance.



+1 however, the S550 platform is said to be flexible...meaning it can be extended to create a 4 door sedan if need be...to truly compete with Cadillac etc, a formidable sports sedan based on the S550 platform..a sports coupe like you said has a relatively short lifespan but if you consider the success of the CTS coupe; BMW M3 coupe etc, an S550-based Lincoln 2door matched with a sedan, would be a good move to get younger buyers looking at Lincoln again.


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Old 06-23-2014, 11:27 AM   #17
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Ford has done a lot of limited production cars. They are meant to be status symbols, not high production units. The demographics of who they need to pull into their cars is not going to be drawn in by a sedan. It may be that they should do two cars eventually. A two seater that competes with the Vette and Audi R8 and a completely different sedan. The sedan would be a draw if it uses an electric front drive with mechanical rear drive.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:43 PM   #18
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The Retro T-bird wasn't a status symbol car, it was a last ditch effort to save the t-bird line. The Ford GT could have competed with the vette, Audi R8, viper, etc. if Ford had continued to develop and refine it. I don't see Lincoln going that way. They need to compete with BMW 5 & 7 series, Audi, Cadillac. Cadillac rebuilt itself as a luxury performance line and succeeded. Lincoln has to define itself and NOT as a Ford with standard leather seats and a different grille. The Lincoln version of the F-150 was stupid.
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Old 06-23-2014, 02:47 PM   #19
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+1 finally, someone gets it!!


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---------- Post added at 02:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:46 PM ----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiesrok View Post
The Retro T-bird wasn't a status symbol car, it was a last ditch effort to save the t-bird line. The Ford GT could have competed with the vette, Audi R8, viper, etc. if Ford had continued to develop and refine it. I don't see Lincoln going that way. They need to compete with BMW 5 & 7 series, Audi, Cadillac. Cadillac rebuilt itself as a luxury performance line and succeeded. Lincoln has to define itself and NOT as a Ford with standard leather seats and a different grille. The Lincoln version of the F-150 was stupid.



+1 finally someone gets it!!


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Old 06-23-2014, 03:46 PM   #20
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Ford should give the new 2015 Mustang to Lincoln rebadge it and add a bunch of fancy shmancy gizmo's and call it something new. The build a better Mustang than this 2015. I understand they want to go worldwide with the Mustang by they didn't have to make it look like something else to do it. The 4 cylinder boost would have been enough to make sales jump over tehre.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:25 PM   #21
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Ford should give the new 2015 Mustang to Lincoln rebadge it and add a bunch of fancy shmancy gizmo's and call it something new. The build a better Mustang than this 2015. I understand they want to go worldwide with the Mustang by they didn't have to make it look like something else to do it. The 4 cylinder boost would have been enough to make sales jump over tehre.
Agreed actually. Lengthen the S550 and make it a Lincoln... whatever. Hell, bring back the "Mark" IMO.

Every time I see a well taken care of 2011-2014 it just screams sex on wheels to me. I get a typical car vibe from the 2015. That's just me though.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:29 PM   #22
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Eh... I dunno, Lincoln does the whole "performance with no compromises" sedan. Its the MXZ and is basically a more luxurious SHO which is a very powerful vehicle in its own right.

Lincoln... I dunno is kind of the Blackberry of the luxury car brands if that makes sense. Great products but boring and nothing really wows. A S550 Lincoln might but I'd say they should pull out all the stops and do it in Carbon fiber with a Ford Racing Whipple on the Coyote and a truly world beating suspension setup to go against the Vette. Otherwise it'll just be like the MKZ where it just makes more sense to buy the SHO for way cheaper and get the same car. They'd buy the Stang with all the bells and whistles for a mid level Lincoln S550 IMO.
You do know the MKZ is a Fusion, right? If you want the Lincoln SHO, its an MK S .

The GT wasn't supposed to exist, it was a concept (2002?) that people just had to have. It wasn't discontinued due to dislike. I hope Lincoln does NOT go all Toyota and turn it into their LFA. I want a Z from Lincoln, not some $150k car that's not worth it. Think Lexus SC- it makes me think further failure.

I desire a Lincoln MKM (ustang). But, it needs to be done right and WILL have compromises. They can't just badge it up or it won't sell- but they can't make it too sporty or their key demographic won't want to drive it. Now that prices are up (IRS), a v6 Lincoln MKM will cost as much as a GT- will that be worth it?

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Old 06-23-2014, 08:35 PM   #23
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The Retro T-bird wasn't a status symbol car, it was a last ditch effort to save the t-bird line. The Ford GT could have competed with the vette, Audi R8, viper, etc. if Ford had continued to develop and refine it. I don't see Lincoln going that way. They need to compete with BMW 5 & 7 series, Audi, Cadillac. Cadillac rebuilt itself as a luxury performance line and succeeded. Lincoln has to define itself and NOT as a Ford with standard leather seats and a different grille. The Lincoln version of the F-150 was stupid.
I agree with most of this, but are you seriously comparing a Ford GT to a Viper or Corvette? The GT44 was destroying the Ferrari equivalent, let alone what the half baked US "competition" was. Although the R8 is a decent value and good car, it was out after the GT44 was done, and would still outshine the early ones (basically just Gallardos).

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Old 06-23-2014, 09:53 PM   #24
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I agree with most of this, but are you seriously comparing a Ford GT to a Viper or Corvette? The GT44 was destroying the Ferrari equivalent, let alone what the half baked US "competition" was.
+1. Just what I was thinking.

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Old 06-24-2014, 12:04 AM   #25
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I agree with most of this, but are you seriously comparing a Ford GT to a Viper or Corvette? The GT44 was destroying the Ferrari equivalent, let alone what the half baked US "competition" was. Although the R8 is a decent value and good car, it was out after the GT44 was done, and would still outshine the early ones (basically just Gallardos).

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I wasn't trying to compare the GT to a specific car, the point was that Ford had a platform to compete in the higher end two seater performance market. And that a Lincoln based on the S550 platform produced as a two seat higher end performance car was not going to be successful.


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Old 06-24-2014, 08:19 AM   #26
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I wasn't trying to compare the GT to a specific car, the point was that Ford had a platform to compete in the higher end two seater performance market. And that a Lincoln based on the S550 platform produced as a two seat higher end performance car was not going to be successful.


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Ah, in that case I completely agree. Some rumor of a newer GT, along the lines of the new NSX- but faster.

Lincoln could make a wicked MKM. Or they could make a Lexus SC. Honestly, I'm kind of afraid to think about how it might turn out :/

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Old 06-24-2014, 10:13 AM   #27
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I agree with most of this, but are you seriously comparing a Ford GT to a Viper or Corvette? The GT44 was destroying the Ferrari equivalent, let alone what the half baked US "competition" was. Although the R8 is a decent value and good car, it was out after the GT44 was done, and would still outshine the early ones (basically just Gallardos).
You do realize that the standard Z06 Vette and Viper were generally faster than the GT44 on a racetrack and ran door to door with it in a straight line.

For the price tag, the GT44 was under-performing.

2006 Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper SRT10 vs. Chevrolet Corvette z06 - Exotic Sport Coupes Comparison - Motor Trend All Pages

2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe Stats - Automobile Magazine
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:08 PM   #28
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This is not about a strictly performance car like the GT as it is about a car that gives high performance and luxury driving. The GT and TBird were retro designs that were not commercial successes, but they are still highly valued. The TBird suffered from a lack of a good suspension and drivetrain. It was not given the tools needed to succeed. The GT was too performance orientated. It was not suitable for street driving. My thought is that a competitor for the Vette or R8 that combines the best of performance and comfort. Lincoln needs an original, not a rehashed Ford. They have a car that could do this. The Ford Shelby Gr1 was built on the Ford GT chassis and was extremely attractive. The basic body style, adjusted for safety regulations and improved comfort, could make a big splash on the market. Use of a suspension system like is on the new Vette and CTS would greatly add to its appeal. Especially if it included different modes for the driving conditions. A few items to appeal to various owner types would be interesting. For example, a lot of buyers are dog owners. Instead of pets getting in from the front seat. the entire area between the wheel wells could be flat surface storage. The rear end could act like a tail gate and electrically lower to close to the ground to provide a pet ramp, or even lay flat to haul long items.
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Old 06-24-2014, 04:56 PM   #29
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This is not about a strictly performance car like the GT as it is about a car that gives high performance and luxury driving. The GT and TBird were retro designs that were not commercial successes, but they are still highly valued. The TBird suffered from a lack of a good suspension and drivetrain. It was not given the tools needed to succeed. The GT was too performance orientated. It was not suitable for street driving. My thought is that a competitor for the Vette or R8 that combines the best of performance and comfort. Lincoln needs an original, not a rehashed Ford. They have a car that could do this. The Ford Shelby Gr1 was built on the Ford GT chassis and was extremely attractive. The basic body style, adjusted for safety regulations and improved comfort, could make a big splash on the market. Use of a suspension system like is on the new Vette and CTS would greatly add to its appeal. Especially if it included different modes for the driving conditions. A few items to appeal to various owner types would be interesting. For example, a lot of buyers are dog owners. Instead of pets getting in from the front seat. the entire area between the wheel wells could be flat surface storage. The rear end could act like a tail gate and electrically lower to close to the ground to provide a pet ramp, or even lay flat to haul long items.


Uh...no....not sure what market you think Lincoln could compete with here...the T-Bird was a brain fart and didn't sell because it was too expensive and too retro--in other words, overpriced and ugly as hell...the GT was intended to be the halo car that it is and prove to the world that Ford--if it wanted to--could compete with much more exotic offerings than it's domestic competitors...no magazine...no car show...no publication worth it's beans will say that a Vette and/or Viper from the same era offers the driving experience the GT did...not to mention the timeless design and quality compared to the others...the GT had soul and a pedigree behind it...the Vette is like Tupperware and Viper (and I love the Viper) is like wannabe exotic...what Lincoln needs is a 2 door/2 seater luxury sports coupe and 4 door luxury sports sedan based on the S550 platform...offer a 4cylinder eco boost with 350hp; 8 speed auto with paddles along with a high performance V8 version using a twin t-chargers and 500hp...an exotic offering badged as a Lincoln is not a good idea--leave that model...and they are working on a successor to the GT--to the Ford brand...both will increase traffic into Ford and Lincoln showrooms...


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Old 06-25-2014, 06:32 AM   #30
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You do realize that the standard Z06 Vette and Viper were generally faster than the GT44 on a racetrack and ran door to door with it in a straight line.

For the price tag, the GT44 was under-performing.

2006 Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper SRT10 vs. Chevrolet Corvette z06 - Exotic Sport Coupes Comparison - Motor Trend All Pages

2006 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 vs. Ford GT vs. Dodge Viper SRT10 Coupe Stats - Automobile Magazine
Your first link doesn't work. Your second link contradicts what you're saying. The article even emphasizes the GT44 rivals the 430 and Gallardo...not sure what you are were getting at by providing that lol

I notice the GT44 barely wins in performance here, but I'd have to look at other numbers myself- haven't had a moment to pull any research.

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Old 06-25-2014, 10:50 AM   #31
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http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...mparison-tests

But they contradict a little in a later article.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...ri-f430-page-7

My point is, why do we want a GT like vehicle over something more practical? Obviously I'd rather have a GT44, but if its having a house and a Mustang, or having a paper box and a Ford GT44, I'm going with the Mustang. The cars like that are either engineering exercises, practice with new/expensive materials, or just to go nuts. All the cars like that are, the LFA, Veyron, XL1, all are amazing cars but the companies lose when they sell one for a price most of us don't make in a few years. I'd much rather have a Mustang, but better fit, finish, style, some luxury wrapped in a beautiful and classy package. If it can't do what a 370Z can, or an M series 1, then how can they charge close to that? Yes, I want more wall poster super cars from Ford for my walls, but I also want a Lincoln MKM for my garage.

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Old 06-25-2014, 11:24 AM   #32
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A lot of people liked the look of the TBird, but without performance, it had no audience. The GT sacrificed too much comfort for performance. For Lincoln to survive, they have to break out of the perception that they are only high dollar clones of Fords. A Lincoln based on the S550 will have to be a dramatic change and has to be the best at many things. A tall order, but Ford has shown that they can do it. It will have to be to the Mustang as the original Mustang was to the Falcon, but focused on a different income group.
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:09 PM   #33
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Lincoln has to forget they are associated with Ford, pick a niche that makes sense for their price points and design the best damn car they can with luxury and performance. It's not a supercar company.


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Old 06-25-2014, 12:10 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiesrok View Post
Lincoln has to forget they are associated with Ford, pick a niche that makes sense for their price points and design the best damn car they can with luxury and performance. It's not a supercar company.


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Old 06-25-2014, 04:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggiesrok View Post
Lincoln has to forget they are associated with Ford, pick a niche that makes sense for their price points and design the best damn car they can with luxury and performance. It's not a supercar company.
The other thing is, is there much profitability in super cars? I don't have numbers on it, but my assumption is no. They are such low volume that despite the fat sticker price, revenue must be low. We all know Lincoln is struggling to stay afloat, they need something that's going to sell like hot cakes and in large numbers. I didn't see too many GT's on the road in 2006...

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