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Old 10-20-2014, 08:31 PM   #1
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Ford possibly replacing the 5.0 in 2016???

Here is something that I found on the net. I have no idea if there is any truth to it but...


The power of Voodoo?

Don’t get too used to the snarling Coyote, though, because it may not be around for too long. The upcoming*2016 Mach 1 is rumored to have an all new V8 known as ‘Voodoo’. In the Mach 1, with the help of forced induction, this engine might put out as much as 650 horsepower.

The upcoming 2016 Mach 1 is rumored to have an all new V8 known as ‘Voodoo’.
The real secret behind the Voodoo’s power is its radical block architecture, with a 180 degree crankshaft. Ferrari has used these flat plane V8s since the 1970s, due to their improved power and throttle response. But dealing with vibration makes 180-degree V8s tricky to engineer. If this is what Ford goes to, it should be interesting to see.

If Ford does in fact move to the Voodoo V8, it is likely to replace all applications in which Ford currently uses the Coyote. While the Voodoo should be an improvement over the ‘Coyote’, the real reason for replacement is cost. The ‘Coyote’ shares its architecture with Jaguar’s 5.0-liter V8 (remember when Ford owned Jaguar?). As such, the current 5.0 V8 is both complicated and expensive to produce.

That might be okay for Jaguar, which, as a small market automaker, competes on quality more over price. Ford, though, needs to sell a lot of Mustangs. That means that it is looking to retire the Coyote much sooner than it normally might.




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Old 10-20-2014, 08:35 PM   #2
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If they use a flat plane crank it'll definitely sound European.


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Old 10-20-2014, 08:45 PM   #3
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I have read quite a bit about this new new 5.2L V8 code named Voodoo, with a flat crank. However, it will be only featured in N/A GT350s, with estimated power levels to be around 575-600 HP/430-450 Tq.

Who knows if ford is going to pull out a Voodoo bunny in 2016, just like they did in 2011. Merely an year after new body style albeit same engine lineup was introduced in 2010.

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Old 10-20-2014, 11:45 PM   #4
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I put these rumors of a flat plane crank domestic V8 right up there with the S550 losing significant weight vs the S197 and the "next" Corvette becoming mid-engined.
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Old 10-21-2014, 08:21 AM   #5
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Be careful copy and pasting internet stuff. Make sure the link is posted, and only a PORTION is shown, and quoted, as the forum could get in trouble for using it.

(Interested in this, by the by.)

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Old 10-21-2014, 08:48 AM   #6
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Speaking of the Ferrari 458, I saw, and heard, one in DC the other day, holy sh*t.

That thing is awesome, and the engine sounds really good.
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastFord13 View Post
Many people are aware that without counter weights it is very hard to balance an engine, and a bigger flat plane, would be very difficult to do. I keep hearing people say it is impossible. Now those people are also forgetting that Ford managed to balance a 3 cylinder engine... If they can do that, I'm sure with a enough time and light enough rods and pistons, ford will be able to manage the task.
A cross plane crank 90* V8 can be counter weighted to achieve perfect primary and secondary balance. A flat plane crank 90* V8 will always have a natural secondary imbalance, regardless of counterweighting. The only way to eliminate this is the same as in a large displacement I4, with dual counter rotating balance shafts spinning at 2x the engine speed...Which would effectively neuter that whole low rotational inertia and high rpm advantage of the flat plane crank.

More specifically, if you think about a flat plane crank V8 as 2 I4's, the secondary imbalance is equal to 1.4x that of an I4 made from a single bank of said V8. So a 5.0L flat plane V8 would have a secondary imbalance 1.4x greater than a 2.5L I4 of the same design, which is to say not great. Lightweight components (compromising low cost) and a short stroke (compromising low end torque) are criticial to keeping the vibrations down, but there is still no defying the laws of physics.

Externally balancing a small displacement I3 enough to make it acceptably smooth was child's play compared to designing and manufacturing a low vibration, large displacement, and reasonably affordable flat plane crank V8.

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...but will it be worth it financially for them? I don't know. The answer to that may lie in the Euro market. If Ford were to ever bring a V8 into the European market, this would definitely be the one to do it with.
All modern mass market V8's (American, European, Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Indian, Russian, etc.) use cross plane cranks. This is not by accident or coincidence.

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...Many Americans would also love the high revving; powerful motor...
Yes, and they're often referred to as "ricers" by torque loving 'Merican V8 drivers.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:33 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
Be careful copy and pasting internet stuff. Make sure the link is posted, and only a PORTION is shown, and quoted, as the forum could get in trouble for using it.

(Interested in this, by the by.)

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Sorry didn't know, I'll try and find the link, but in the meantime if the moderators feel the need to close it by all means.

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Old 10-21-2014, 02:44 PM   #9
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OK so here are the links.

http://m.motortrend.com/wot/1409_for...crank_v_8.html

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/20...stang-engines/
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Old 10-21-2014, 04:01 PM   #10
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Not trying to be buzz Killington, but Ecomodder got some hate mail on it, wanna save the mods some trouble.

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Old 10-21-2014, 04:04 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by UltArc View Post
Not trying to be buzz Killington, but Ecomodder got some hate mail on it, wanna save the mods some trouble.

Luke 11:9-10 “So I say to you ...*search and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.
Sorry, I'm not following?! Ecomodder hate mail on what?

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Old 10-21-2014, 07:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FastFord13 View Post

Sorry, I'm not following?! Ecomodder hate mail on what?

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Users were copying and pasting articles. The host sites started threatening litigation if they did not delete the content off the ecomodder threads.

I do not want that to happen here. Make sense?
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Old 10-21-2014, 10:56 PM   #13
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I just listened to a bunch of the various GT350/GT500/Voodoo spy videos for the first time...Not surprisingly, they all sound just like it has a cross plane crank.
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Old 10-29-2014, 11:05 AM   #14
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It seems more likely that this new V8 will be restricted to low-volume specialty models rather than entirely replacing the Coyote. I guess time will tell.

The Coyote is a sweet engine, equivalent in refinement and performance to those in big buck German cars.
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Old 10-29-2014, 12:19 PM   #15
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Offer it as an option for the GT!
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Old 11-17-2014, 05:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driven5 View Post
I just listened to a bunch of the various GT350/GT500/Voodoo spy videos for the first time...Not surprisingly, they all sound just like it has a cross plane crank.
The GT350 has been unveiled, and I appear to have been wrong. Without knowing more details about the engineering surrounding the flat plane crank, and whether or not they had to resort to balance shafts, I have to say I'm rather impressed that they seem to have pulled off this very difficult task...And am even pleased to be eating my words in regards to it.

Although I'm still trying to figure out what they did to make it sound not-at-all like a flat plane crank V8. Hell, a pushrod SBF or SBC with "180 degree" headers sounds more like a flat plane crank V8 than any videos of the GT350.
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Old 12-06-2014, 02:46 AM   #17
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I think the days of using the same core motor for 20 years is over. EPA is coming down faster and harder, and the technology has to keep up with the standards.


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Old 12-07-2014, 10:26 PM   #18
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Motors these days burn so clean it isn't even the EPA anymore, its MPG now which is a good thing IMO to get us the hell off foreign oil. Gas prices here are below $2.50/gal now for regular which I hope is in part because of how many fuel efficient vehicles are on the road now.

To this end, Ford has the Ecoboost and is phasing the V6 out. Most Mustangs sold from this point on are going to be 4 bangers and the V8 will get to leverage the efficiency of the 4 banger to balance out the still good high 20 mpg for the gov't requirements.

I honestly see the hopped up 15+ Coyote sticking around for awhile in the GT. GT350 is obviously getting the flat plane and a new GT500 could get an upgraded Trinity or a 6.2L Raptor engine that is even more worked. Not sure about the Mach and what it would get. A factory Whipple'd Coyote with some special Mach stuffs would probably satisfy most.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:02 AM   #19
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If they replace the coyote soon in the GTs..Ford would probably go back down to 4.6 Liters or less. Think about it the 5.2L version in the GT350 probably making 520+ hp. (100hp/liter) So if we got a slightly detuned 4.6L it would probably make around the current 435 hp. Simplier more efficient & lower displacement.... Exactly where the bean counters & environmentalist want it to go.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:35 AM   #20
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If they replace the coyote soon in the GTs..Ford would probably go back down to 4.6 Liters or less. Think about it the 5.2L version in the GT350 probably making 520+ hp. (100hp/liter) So if we got a slightly detuned 4.6L it would probably make around the current 435 hp. Simplier more efficient & lower displacement.... Exactly where the bean counters & environmentalist want it to go.
Personally I don't care how big an engine is, I car about output. A 3 cylinder 1.0 putting out 300 HP and still letting me get 40 MPG is fine with me. If they can make a 4.6, 5.2, or a 7.0 that allows power and FE, it doesn't bother me. If we can have our cake (power), and eat it too (FE), why not?

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Old 12-13-2014, 12:06 PM   #21
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Personally I don't care how big an engine is, I car about output. A 3 cylinder 1.0 putting out 300 HP and still letting me get 40 MPG is fine with me. If they can make a 4.6, 5.2, or a 7.0 that allows power and FE, it doesn't bother me. If we can have our cake (power), and eat it too (FE), why not?

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The only downside of a tiny motor would be the sound.


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Old 12-13-2014, 12:13 PM   #22
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I hope Ford never goes back to the 4.6.
It was a failure as a motor, even if there is better technology now I don't think anyone would be happy going back to the motor that let the F bodies win so easily.


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Old 12-13-2014, 02:12 PM   #23
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I hope Ford never goes back to the 4.6.
It was a failure as a motor, even if there is better technology now I don't think anyone would be happy going back to the motor that let the F bodies win so easily.


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It was in no way a failure as a motor. It was a failure as a performance app in that you needed to do a LOT of work and a power adder to get it in the same ballpark as a bolt on F body. The 00R, Termi and Shelby motors are nasty but they're the snowflakes of the 4.6L run.

I always felt my old 95 Cobra was a much more capable street car than my 98GT ever was and that 98 had a PI with all the bolt ons etc... I could tap the gas in 2nd at 2000rpm with that Cobra and just annihilate the 295s out back. Would bog the motor if I tried that with the 2V lol.

Now as far as reliability and the fact that they were mass produced and cheaply put into basically everything Ford made... was a pure winner. Plenty of cabs and trucks that made it to the 250K+ mark no problem with just oil changes. Thing lasted from the early 90s to 2010.
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:44 PM   #24
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My brother run a Lincoln town car to 500k with the 4.6 and never had problems with the motor. I think Ford went with the 5.0 to complete in the horsepower wars with GM and Dodge. Personally I don't care what the Camaro is putting out, it's a terrible design IMHO. The Challenger not to bad, but to big for my taste.
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Old 12-13-2014, 05:10 PM   #25
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The only downside of a tiny motor would be the sound.


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Agreed. The ecoboost 4 in the Mustang is pathetic. Stock, it was a complete and total let down in my book. Otherwise, the car was fantastic.

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Old 12-20-2014, 10:29 AM   #26
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Ford possibly replacing the 5.0 in 2016???

I have heard from a someone in the industry to expect a turbocharged V6 to begin to phase out the V8. I know in 2016 the new EPA requirements tighten up and they need to sell more fuel efficient cars.


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Old 12-20-2014, 10:45 AM   #27
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It's not that they need to sell more fuel efficient cars, they fleet wide average needs to meet a certain number. They'll have to sell a lot of focus's to sell a small number of v8 mustangs.
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Old 12-20-2014, 11:05 AM   #28
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I have heard from a someone in the industry to expect a turbocharged V6 to begin to phase out the V8. I know in 2016 the new EPA requirements tighten up and they need to sell more fuel efficient cars.


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If true then the 2016 release might be the last coyote which could shoot the 15/16 values through the roof. I honestly doubt they'll phase out the 8 tho.

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Old 12-20-2014, 11:09 AM   #29
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Not saying eliminated because he told us there would be V8 specialty models but to expect the base GT to be a turbo V6. Could be BS I don't know. So I guess we could expect a twin turbo King Cobra ricer edition soon...lol


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Old 12-20-2014, 11:24 AM   #30
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Well if its an updated version of the SHO motor then its going to be an absolute monster. Will still piss off the "purists" but expect a tune only 500whp capable engine IMO. Pair it with an 8 speed auto mmmmm

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Old 12-20-2014, 11:29 AM   #31
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No doubt the power would be there the sound may be an issue


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Old 12-20-2014, 12:34 PM   #32
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No doubt the power would be there the sound may be an issue


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Honestly the 3.7 sixers sound pretty good (ask me how I know), nothing like a ricer beamer exhaust note. Put a pair of borla s types or even quad gt500s with shorty headers, and you have a sweet sounding ride!
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Old 12-20-2014, 03:35 PM   #33
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Yeah the Cyclones with a good exhaust setup sound surprisingly good but on the flipside, the idiots who do x pipes with SLPs or whatever sound like complete ***.

Whatever, even if they do phase out the Coyote after a 6 year run its going to be one of the most desirable motors out there and it could shoot the market for anything with one back up whereas right now its flooded with ppl trying to sell their 5.0 Mustangs for $20-$24k and not getting many bites. Its kind of sad seeing the classifieds in some of the bigger forums. If you have $20-$25k to spend you can get a RIDICULOUS ride if you are patient. Just saw a 2012 Lava Red M6 with a Roushcarger making 600whp and 30k something miles in mint condition sell for $25k.
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Old 01-03-2015, 12:28 PM   #34
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You still cannot beat a ford v8 love them I always had a v8


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Old 01-07-2015, 03:45 PM   #35
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We might be getting an EcoBeast V6 replacing the V8 in the Mustangs in a few years!

Ford Trademarks EcoBeast Name, Possibly For 2016 Raptor - News - Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog

I could see them trying the EcoBeast name & V8 swap to turbo 6 out on a low volume model first. The Raptor is a perfect place to test the waters and get some people on board. I'm looking forward to a hopefully 700 lb lighter Raptor with a better engine. The 6.2L was an inefficient gas guzzler.



And to all the "turbo" haters, look at the 911 Turbo (6 cylinder twin turbo). It has always been one of the fastest production cars in the world period. 0-60, 1/4 mile or road course.
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