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Old 03-26-2015, 03:52 PM   #36
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Here is exactly what I'm seeing in the car, these have also been sent to Paul. I'm gonna physically check the TB and hit the APPS with the voltmeter and make sure it's working correctly.

This is foot off the throttle, pedal all the way up....



Here is my foot to the floor. It stops dead at 89.41 each time. Is there a scalar in the tune for the throttle position sensor?...

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Old 03-26-2015, 04:04 PM   #37
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Here is what it's doing in the car....this is with the 93 Octane tune loaded.


https://youtu.be/29U5oMWA5uk
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:18 PM   #38
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Just had a long conversation with Paul, should be getting a revision here shortly. I'm gonna put it on the track for a few logs at WOT in 5th gear to fully load the motor.
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Old 03-26-2015, 04:19 PM   #39
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Just had a long conversation with Paul, should be getting a revision here shortly. I'm gonna put it on the track for a few logs at WOT in 5th gear to fully load the motor.
What was his thought on the throttle opening up to 88 or whatever it was?

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Old 03-26-2015, 04:32 PM   #40
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That isn't the problem, the problem was the actual blade angle in the TB. He was looking at the datalog of just driving the car and not of it actually on the dyno.

If you've ever looked at actual tune files, the throttle % isn't always 100% in actual value, but it's based on voltage which the ECM sees and translates to a value. That value is referenced to other tables for fuel, spark, torque management, etc....

The APPS works on a 0-5 volt scale and you can manipulate how the ECM interprets that value in the tuning. Like I said earlier, that's what some folks do in a tune to make you think the car has a stronger low end than it really does, they manipulate that scalar value so that what WAS 15% throttle before, the ECM now sees as 25%.....there is no actual additional power, the ECM just thinks you're calling on more throttle.

If the APPS ranges 0-5 volts, but only actually passes 4.7 volts through, you may never register 100% throttle. But, if you scale the value so 4.7 volts is 100% instead of 5.0 volts, you're good.

I told ya, I tune quite a few things, but they're all LS motors and diesels. But, a motor is a motor and they all have certain things that work the same.
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Old 03-26-2015, 05:16 PM   #41
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Can't use the revised tune, it's for another device.
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Old 03-27-2015, 01:01 PM   #42
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Got the correct revision this morning from Paul. Just got back from thrashing on the car and got about 8 good data logs to shoot off to him.

Initially, it looks like it's not pulling back so much timing now. There are still some mid-range spots that the knock sensor is pulling back timing pretty aggressively, but it's definitely staying closer to ideal on the big end.

Still has that stumble around 2800-3000 RPM's, but that's a seperate issue.
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Old 03-27-2015, 03:25 PM   #43
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Got the correct revision this morning from Paul. Just got back from thrashing on the car and got about 8 good data logs to shoot off to him. Initially, it looks like it's not pulling back so much timing now. There are still some mid-range spots that the knock sensor is pulling back timing pretty aggressively, but it's definitely staying closer to ideal on the big end. Still has that stumble around 2800-3000 RPM's, but that's a seperate issue.

Hey Silver - Thanks for the update - I'm attached to your tickets and I'm working along with Paul every step of the way. I'll make sure he takes a look once he's off the dyno to follow up with you and I'm happy to hear that you guys are making progress (Awesome stable again!)
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:29 PM   #44
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Hey Silver - Thanks for the update - I'm attached to your tickets and I'm working along with Paul every step of the way. I'll make sure he takes a look once he's off the dyno to follow up with you and I'm happy to hear that you guys are making progress (Awesome stable again!)
First, thanks, there are LOT of hours in those things. Lots of fabrication, lots of sweat, lots of machine time.....wouldn't change a thing....other than the Chevelle getting feet per gallon.

Anyways, so it's fair for the AM and Bama guys, when Paul tells me that he thinks the tune is ready I'll strap it back down and do exactly what I did the other day. I'll do a few baseline pulls with no tune (the car does have the exhaust on it now, so we'll make sure that's zeroed out of the equation), and then I'll do the pulls on the track tune.

I think that's more than giving Paul and his guys a truly fair shot at showing what they can do.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:35 PM   #45
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I'm curious to see what it does with the exhaust on it now.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:41 PM   #46
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I'm curious to see what it does with the exhaust on it now.
I'm sure it'll free up a little power, I don't think it'll be anything to write home about though. But, that's why I'll do the baselines again with no tuning so it compensates for the exhaust.

I tell ya what will make the biggest difference with the exhaust is the weight.....that stock exhaust is HEAVY. I don't thing the exhaust on my truck, which is all 5" from the turbo to the stack is that heavy. I'm not kidding, I'd have to weigh it but I wouldn't be surprised if the Magnaflow kit is 30 lbs lighter. I tossed the whole box on my shoulder and it was no big deal. When I pulled the stock system off, it about knocked me out.....make sure you have an extra set of hands to pull it off.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:45 PM   #47
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Oh I know believe me. I did mine myself on jack stands. When I finally got the last hanger bolt off I was not prepared for the muffler to weigh that much. I'd say one stock muffler weighs as much as both magnaflows. I'm sure your right about the HP gains, but I will be curious to see. Love all your data. I don't have a 15 but I'm learning a lot reading some of this stuff.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:51 PM   #48
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I'm sure your right about the HP gains, but I will be curious to see. Love all your data. I don't have a 15 but I'm learning a lot reading some of this stuff.
You kinda get spoiled when you do your own tuning and you know the process. I can look at the data log, see an issue, fix it right then and there, make another hit, look at the log, etc.....

I hate doing plug and play tuning, it just doesn't work from one car to another. You can take identical cars, right behind each other from the assembly line, put the same tune on each and one will perform better than the other.

If you don't log and you don't read the logs and you don't adjust from the logs, you're in the blind. Everyone likes to think that something they did to the car made it faster, quicker, more powerful....the problem with that is the butt dyno is directly connected to the wallet....when the wallet gets light, the butt dyno says you're making more power. Truth is in the numbers....dyno, track, data....those have no feelings or concerns for what you've spent on your car.
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Old 03-27-2015, 07:53 PM   #49
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MagnaFlow is where it's at. Said earlier.
I'm running there offroad x with the catback. Stock headers and I make 440 on motor and a lil over 7 with the bottle.
Great quality.

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Old 03-27-2015, 07:57 PM   #50
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These are the kind of changes I'm used to when I'm tuning. This is a few tuning pulls on the truck with just the small kit to get on top of the charger....





This is what I usually have my face buried in pass after pass and pull after pull....





Here is an example of a timing map on something that is dead stock. This is what you're manipulating when you're trying to make power and drivability. Power is the easy part....6-8 pulls on the dyno and you're done. The drivability is the hard part....I may make 50 changes to a tune before I'm totally happy with it.


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Old 03-27-2015, 08:05 PM   #51
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Pushing a button and putting a preloaded tune on a car isn't "tuning" it's just loading a file. The money maker is the data logs and being able to interpret them.
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Old 03-27-2015, 08:08 PM   #52
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Thay or just get your car dyno tuned and have a car that pulls all the way to 7850.

The coyotes are not something that anybody can get in and tune. There is alot of set limiters that you have to know how to get passed.

Talk to shaun at aed he will tell you majority of the people tuning the coyotes, shouldn't even be alowed to tune a lawn mower.
It's nothing like the 2'vs 3v's and cobras are. Whole new game.

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Old 03-27-2015, 08:18 PM   #53
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That's how it goes in most of the tuning world. There are dudes selling tunes that I wouldn't let check my tire pressure.

I only use the dyno as a tool, not a be all, end all. Once I get to the track is where I make the final changes. You may make a hit and go 5.98 and a few small tweaks after looking at the log you go 5.78.
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Old 03-27-2015, 09:18 PM   #54
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I have a little ranger project I'm building with a 5.0 swap (I know it's not that exciting as it's been done a million times), but It's a 96 explorer block with the gt40 heads and I am converting it to a 95 cobra wire harness and computer. I am hoping I can get into the tuning game a little with this once I get it up and running. Seems like a good place to learn, not on my coyote 👍 but I will watch you tinker with yours for sure
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Old 03-27-2015, 09:44 PM   #55
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The best advice I can give you if you want to start tuning is before you do any TUNING, learn what right looks like. Once you understand what right looks like and you can understand data logs, now you make ONE CHANGE AT A TIME. Make a tweak, log, make another tweak, log.....baby steps and DO NOT disable any limiters until you know what the real limits are. There are some things you can wipe out with no adverse effects on the motor, then there are things that going 1 more percent melts it down.

Be super careful with AFR's and timing, those are your big killers. Learn how to PROPERLY read plugs, and by that I mean actually cutting them open and looking at more than the ground strap.

The wide band is your friend. The data logs are your friend. Reading plugs is your friend. Timing is not your friend. Lean AFR's are not your friend.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:23 PM   #56
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I have a little ranger project I'm building with a 5.0 swap (I know it's not that exciting as it's been done a million times), but It's a 96 explorer block with the gt40 heads and I am converting it to a 95 cobra wire harness and computer. I am hoping I can get into the tuning game a little with this once I get it up and running. Seems like a good place to learn, not on my coyote 👍 but I will watch you tinker with yours for sure
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Old 03-29-2015, 10:07 AM   #57
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So I shot Paul two more data logs yesterday just from doing some street driving with normal acceleration and a couple quick blasts at WOT.

I'm gonna take the car to the track today so I can open it up and not be worrying about everything there is on the street. I like to play around, but I certainly don't advocate doing what you need to do to fully load the motor and hit the rev limiter on the street.

From the logs its still looks to have a hole in tbe timing between 4000 - 4500 RPM's that don't correspond with a timing reduction from the knock sensors. The most the knock sensors are pulling back now is about 2 degrees, but in that 4000-4500 range I'm seeing as much as 10 degrees of timing reduction that isn't accounted for in the logs.

Not real concerned with the time slips today, just want the data. Can't leave hard enough on the street tires to be worth a crap for time anyways.
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:07 PM   #58
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Well, 3 passes in and lots and lots of wheel spin.....
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Old 03-29-2015, 02:54 PM   #59
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Well, 3 passes in and lots and lots of wheel spin.....
..... Well that makes getting accurate numbers a little,challenging

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Old 03-29-2015, 03:15 PM   #60
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..... Well that makes getting accurate numbers a little,challenging

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Yeah, exactly.....all 3 passes were pretty much the same. This was the 2nd pass and I tried babying it off the line and as soon as I stabbed it it just tore the tires off. You can see I tried pedaling it twice through 1st gear and it was pretty useless. These stock tires tires gotta go!

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Old 03-29-2015, 03:33 PM   #61
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Yeah, exactly.....all 3 passes were pretty much the same. This was the 2nd pass and I tried babying it off the line and as soon as I stabbed it it just tore the tires off. You can see I tried pedaling it twice through 1st gear and it was pretty useless. These stock tires tires gotta go!

Well... Seems like you have some more power but that is purely speculation. Stock tires definitely need to go

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Old 03-29-2015, 03:46 PM   #62
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It did the same thing when I took it to the track with like 500 miles on it. I was trying the launch control then and it wouldn't hook, so this time I didnmt use launch control and was only at like 1500 RPM's. These stock tires suck!

I'm loading the cideo right now. You'll see how bad these tires are. Wait until you see the BMW x-drive in the left lane leave on me in the 2nd pass. Not even a chirp outta the tires. lol
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:49 PM   #63
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It did the same thing when I took it to the track with like 500 miles on it. I was trying the launch control then and it wouldn't hook, so this time I didnmt use launch control and was only at like 1500 RPM's. These stock tires suck!
What size are they stock?

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Old 03-29-2015, 03:52 PM   #64
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Here's the video of the 3 passes. Wait until you see just how bad these tires are on the track. I'm not even leaving hard.

https://youtu.be/5PltbaOo4rA
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:55 PM   #65
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Sounds like you are spinning halfway through second, that is nuts.

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Old 03-29-2015, 03:58 PM   #66
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What size are they stock?

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235/50/18's. Really can't go wider on these wheels, they're only 8" wide.

I really need to put some 20x10's on it with some NT555 285/30/20's on it.
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Old 03-29-2015, 03:59 PM   #67
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Sounds like you are spinning halfway through second, that is nuts.

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Yeah, they don't hook worth a crap. Those were like 2.08 60 foot times.


You hear me miss 3rd gear in the 3rd pass? OOOPS! lol
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:12 PM   #68
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Even if you had a bigger better tire (which I agree you need) you probably also need to get that wheel hop under wraps. When ever I get on it in mine it bounces around like that as well.
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Old 03-29-2015, 04:13 PM   #69
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Yeah, they don't hook worth a crap. Those were like 2.08 60 foot times.


You hear me miss 3rd gear in the 3rd pass? OOOPS! lol
Blame it on the traction my 255 45 18s can't even hook with 310 whp can't imagine a narrower tire with more power!

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Old 03-29-2015, 04:31 PM   #70
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Even if you had a bigger better tire (which I agree you need) you probably also need to get that wheel hop under wraps. When ever I get on it in mine it bounces around like that as well.
Oh yeah, that's definitely an issue.....and I already have the Steeda subframe bushings in it. They're a Band-Aid at best.
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