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Old 03-25-2015, 08:22 AM   #1
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Putting it back on the dyno today

I'm gonna put the car back on the dyno today and see how it does with just the tune on it. The car has NOTHING else done to it other than the Steeda subframe bushings.....no intake, no exhaust, even the filter is still stock. I wanna see what it does with just the tunes.

Here is what the car did last week with absolutely nothing on it....



I'm gonna do 2 pulls each....stock, performance, and track. All the pulls will start at 2000 RPM's, they'll all be in 5th gear, they'll all be on 93 octane fuel, and it'll all be on a DynoJet 224xLc.

Everything will be data logged....





And there will be video of the runs....



We'll see what it does on just these tunes....
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Old 03-25-2015, 12:48 PM   #2
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First two stock pulls to get the baseline are down, loading the 87 tune right now. It's with 2 HP of the pulls last week...378 at the tires.

It's taking a bit between pulls because the SCT LiveLink software keeps locking up.
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:17 PM   #3
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Just made the pulls with the 87 octane tune. Negligible gain....1st pull was 382, 2nd pull was 384. The curves were identical to stock.
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:25 PM   #4
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Why are you loading an 87 tune in to a GT?
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Old 03-25-2015, 01:58 PM   #5
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Okay, just ran the 93 octane tune.....this is gonna hurt some feelings.....NO GAIN. 382 hp and 384 hp. Every curve; stock, 87 and 93 were right on top of each other.

First, the dyno was calibrated before we started the pulls....



The car was all setup with for data logging, which I'm gonna look through here in a second.....





And, here are the results.....

Stock....378 hp. Max hp on the 93 octane tune....384. You can fart in front of the intake and make 6 hp.





I called and left a message with Paul at Bama......we'll see what he has to say. $400 for 6 hp and no gain over the ENTIRE curve ain't cutting it.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:02 PM   #6
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Well that makes sense on the 87 to 93 Tune not adding power.
1. You obviously have 93 in the tank, so the computer will automatically adjust to that even with the 87 octane tune loaded. Which explains why they are identical.
2. Who's tune is it?

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Old 03-25-2015, 02:11 PM   #7
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^sounds like BAMA.
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Old 03-25-2015, 02:29 PM   #8
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Stock tune with 93 and a TUNE on 93 should show gains. The car has no ida what octane fuel is in the car, the knock sensors are what lets it know if there is too much timing and retards if for knock. The only thing the ECM sees is the alcohol content in the fuel.

Now....I just looked at the data logs.....identical. Same timing, same came profile, same timing being ****** by the knock sensor, same reading from the MAF, same RPM's is where it cut out. NO CHANGE.

If that seems normal to you, you're nuts. This isn't my first go around tuning anf even a 1* bump in timing shows on the dyno. This showed NOTHING.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:05 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by SilverS550 View Post
Stock tune with 93 and a TUNE on 93 should show gains. The car has no ida what octane fuel is in the car, the knock sensors are what lets it know if there is too much timing and retards if for knock. The only thing the ECM sees is the alcohol content in the fuel.

Now....I just looked at the data logs.....identical. Same timing, same came profile, same timing being ****** by the knock sensor, same reading from the MAF, same RPM's is where it cut out. NO CHANGE.

If that seems normal to you, you're nuts. This isn't my first go around tuning anf even a 1* bump in timing shows on the dyno. This showed NOTHING.
Whatever you say. The car does know what octane is in the car.
But I will let you stay sitting there twiddling your thumbs

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Old 03-25-2015, 03:07 PM   #10
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So you'd be cool paying someone for a tune when the car should already automatically adjust? That's what you're saying? Ok.

Not how it works....at all.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:19 PM   #11
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From what I understand, the car can minimally adjust itself for the octane rating. That way you can run 87-93 without any issues.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:24 PM   #12
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Right, that's what knock sensors are for. For example, if it sees pinging on 93 octane fuel it may need to pull 4 degrees of timing to stop the detonatio. On 87 octane it may cause it to pull 9 degrees to stop the knock. That's what the knock sensors do.
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:26 PM   #13
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Oh! I didn't know that. Thanks! I wish I could tune my own car. I don't want to pay for a custom tune, but I'm skeptical of the mail order tunes for similar reasons as you are experiencing. How would I know it was the tune and not my brain?
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Old 03-25-2015, 03:27 PM   #14
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I'm keeping tabs on this thread for sure.
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Old 03-25-2015, 04:32 PM   #15
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I didn't even think to do this before I pulled it off the dyno but I'm loading the SCT 5.0 tune on it now to see if I notice anything.

I'll at least data log it and see if it even records different values while driving vs the Bama tunes. I already have a few logs of those so I'll be able to see if anything registers.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:25 PM   #16
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As promised, here's the video of the runs. It's nothing exciting....the dyno is kinda boring when nothing goes wrong....


http://youtu.be/jX2ulcd1cuE
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:26 PM   #17
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Actually a dyno is exciting from the outside. Especially when you are putting down 600+ and there is always spinning on the dyno.

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Old 03-25-2015, 08:30 PM   #18
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You do realize it takes 50 miles to have it fully adapt to your car..


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Old 03-25-2015, 08:35 PM   #19
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Actually a dyno is exciting from the outside. Especially when you are putting down 600+ and there is always spinning on the dyno.

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Considering my next lowest HP ride is 890 hp, that's still pretty tame. The truck drops 1551 hp and we have to put straps over the bed to keeping it from knocking the tires off on the roller, even with the drag radials.


I'm definitely not a stranger to making big kid power....that's 7200 lbs that goes LOW 6's in the 1/8th.


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Old 03-25-2015, 08:37 PM   #20
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You do realize it takes 50 miles to have it fully adapt to your car..


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That is strictly for drivability purposes, mostly for the transmission to relearn and that's only for automatics. Has no impact on the top end. They have to relearn the throttle position because most tunes increase the sensitivity down low to make it seem like it has a much stronger bottom end when really all it is making the ECM THINK you're giving it more throttle than you actually are.


They also have to relearn the fill rates and pressures for the clutches. It's no different than rebuilding the trans, you have to let it relearn. Otherwise it defaults to what it was doing previously and it's trying to pressure new clutches with same fluid volume as the old worn out ones and you get really hard shifts.

Believe me, I have plenty of tuning time and that's pretty standard practice.


Ever driven an older Chevy? You know how the throttle feels really sensitive down low? That's because the lever on the throttle body is cammed so it opens faster initially. That's why they have nothing left after about 75% throttle.
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Old 03-25-2015, 08:42 PM   #21
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Considering my next lowest HP ride is 890 hp, that's still pretty tame. The truck drops 1551 hp and we have to put straps over the bed to keeping it from knocking the tires off on the roller, even with the drag radials.
Same here. We have Fox that puts down over 1400. And drag radials and slicks are known for spinning on the dyno. Thats why you swap the rear tires out on a high hp car

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Old 03-25-2015, 08:43 PM   #22
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Considering my next lowest HP ride is 890 hp, that's still pretty tame. The truck drops 1551 hp and we have to put straps over the bed to keeping it from knocking the tires off on the roller, even with the drag radials.
You sound like you have an awesome and badass collection

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Old 03-25-2015, 09:03 PM   #23
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You sound like you have an awesome and badass collection

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There are a few toys in the stable.....

This is the '88 GT. LS1 swap, 4L80, BW S475/87/1.10, 80 lb/hr injectors, Z06 cam and springs. 890 hp to the tires on 93 octane and 22 psi of boost.



This is the Chevelle. 496 BBC, glide, Precision PT101. 1038 hp to the tires at 20 psi.



And then there's big angry....5.9 Cummins, Garrett 4718 (this is currently off the truck and I'm building a triple turbo setup for it using two FMW S467's and a FMW S472), lots of injector, lots of pump, LOTS of internals. On the single and 2 kits it puts 1551 hp to the tires.





And yes, I'm the one who tunes this stuff.
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:30 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by SilverS550 View Post
There are a few toys in the stable.....

This is the '88 GT. LS1 swap, 4L80, BW S475/87/1.10, 80 lb/hr injectors, Z06 cam and springs. 890 hp to the tires on 93 octane and 22 psi of boost.



This is the Chevelle. 496 BBC, glide, Precision PT101. 1038 hp to the tires at 20 psi.



And then there's big angry....5.9 Cummins, Garrett 4718 (this is currently off the truck and I'm building a triple turbo setup for it using two FMW S467's and a FMW S472), lots of injector, lots of pump, LOTS of internals. On the single and 2 kits it puts 1551 hp to the tires.





And yes, I'm the one who tunes this stuff.
That ls probably sounds wicked. How did you get your tuning background?

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Old 03-25-2015, 09:43 PM   #25
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I've been a gear head since I was little. I was that kid that ripped apart his parents perfectly good lawn mower to see if I could give it more power. After 20 years in the Army I went back to school for mechanical engineering. I'm more than happy to find ways to break things. lol
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Old 03-25-2015, 09:51 PM   #26
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Here's a pass in the truck on just the small kit. I wanna say this was a 6.68 pass. I normally don't bring the big kit in until 2.2 seconds or it just knocks the tires off....

http://youtu.be/vLOHyUNDiu0

Here's the '88 from a few weeks ago....

http://youtu.be/LiNY94CZ94Y
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:34 AM   #27
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Just as an update to this, last night I sent the folks at Bama an email with all the data logs, the dyno sheets, and the tunes. I left a few messages yesterday with Paul also.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:40 AM   #28
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Hey Silver

I'm sorry to hear about your issues and I've been working with Paul and the Bama Team on this every step of the way. It looks like Paul had requested that you datalog before you hit the rollers, but for whatever reason that didn’t happen. Regardless, the Bama team would like to get you putting down great power! The 2015 PCM logic is highly advanced and certain PCM codes (because the tuning software for these isn’t fully capable for every PCM code) require more datalogging to make maximum horsepower and torque. They had another customer that was having similar issues where he was strapped down, prior to getting a datalog, and only made little improvements in power. He then submitted a datalog and received a revised tune. The Bama team covered the cost to get him back to the dyno to get some pulls done and he put down significantly better numbers (that thread is right here). If you can get Bama their datalogs, I'm happy to cover 3 pulls on the same dyno for you just as we did for their other customer. Let me know or Paul know if you have any other questions and we're here to help.

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Old 03-26-2015, 09:49 AM   #29
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Alex, I do have datalogs of the car before I strapped it back down. Unfortunatley, every time you stop a log to save it so you start another log, the X4 freezes up and you have to disconnect it from everything to power it down and restart.....not exactly conducive to doing it while driving. I was trying to get cruising logs, accelerations, ramp merges, stop and go, etc.....but every time I'd try to stop and save the log so it wasn't a 2 hour long log, I had to stop and reboot the X4.

But yes, I do have the 2 data logs of driving the car normally. I'll send those now.

Don't worry about the dyno time, I can strap it down whenever I want.....my other vehicles tend to be good advertising. Besides, 3 pulls won't do it. It needs to be base lined each time to make sure the results are valid, like I did here. I normally plan for 6-8 pulls when I'm just tuning the top end, the drivability takes a whole lot longer when you're doing the steady-state and stepped pulls.
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Old 03-26-2015, 10:09 AM   #30
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I just sent the datalog from before the dyno to Ryan and told him to forward it to Paul. I have to trim the log after the dyno as it exceeds the 25 mb size limit to send. This is why I try to break the logs up into smaller usable sections, they're enormous.
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Old 03-26-2015, 10:19 AM   #31
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The datalog from AFTER the dyno, running SCT's baseline 5.0 file was just sent to Ryan. I had to zip it so it was small enough to send. It was 22 minutes of data.
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Old 03-26-2015, 10:27 AM   #32
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Hey Silver
The Bama team covered the cost to get him back to the dyno to get some pulls done and he put down significantly better numbers (that thread is right here).Alex
I would certainly hope he picked up more than that with the tune, intake and exhaust....otherwise, that's an expensive gain, when you guys are claiming 30 hp. His stock numbers were also 2 weeks prior and without intake and exhaust, so that's not 100% accurate.

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Old 03-26-2015, 10:32 AM   #33
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Alex,

Don't take this the wrong way, I know you're doing your job, but you're the voice of AM and Bama right now. If those are the gains I can expect from a CUSTOM tune, I'd just buy the 7015 at wholesale and use SCT's baseline tune that allows me to adjust things as I want without emailing you guys for a revision. You see my point here?

Change my mind, because right now, I'm not sold. For $300 I can get the Advantage software and do whatever I want, when I want. All I need is the 7015 to talk to the car.
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:53 PM   #34
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Alex, I do have datalogs of the car before I strapped it back down. Unfortunatley, every time you stop a log to save it so you start another log, the X4 freezes up and you have to disconnect it from everything to power it down and restart.....not exactly conducive to doing it while driving. I was trying to get cruising logs, accelerations, ramp merges, stop and go, etc.....but every time I'd try to stop and save the log so it wasn't a 2 hour long log, I had to stop and reboot the X4.

But yes, I do have the 2 data logs of driving the car normally. I'll send those now.

Don't worry about the dyno time, I can strap it down whenever I want.....my other vehicles tend to be good advertising. Besides, 3 pulls won't do it. It needs to be base lined each time to make sure the results are valid, like I did here. I normally plan for 6-8 pulls when I'm just tuning the top end, the drivability takes a whole lot longer when you're doing the steady-state and stepped pulls.
Hey I just wanted to make sure that we can get you set up! Based on what I'm seeing you might as well have a dyno cell in your backyard. Good looking setups as well the ls swap looks pretty ridiculous! Just and FYI here on the logs themselves Bama sees this best results when they get one datalog, then pull the file and have another one set up.

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I just sent the datalog from before the dyno to Ryan and told him to forward it to Paul. I have to trim the log after the dyno as it exceeds the 25 mb size limit to send. This is why I try to break the logs up into smaller usable sections, they're enormous.
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The datalog from AFTER the dyno, running SCT's baseline 5.0 file was just sent to Ryan. I had to zip it so it was small enough to send. It was 22 minutes of data.
Sounds good and I'll make sure that they're put in front of Paul immediately I did just speak with him and saw that the runs you sent prior to the dyno were not WOT. It's looking like you have your laptop set up on the dyno if you have logs for those can you have them sent over to Bama as well? - No problem on having them split up either we're here to work for you, no worries!

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I would certainly hope he picked up more than that with the tune, intake and exhaust....otherwise, that's an expensive gain, when you guys are claiming 30 hp. His stock numbers were also 2 weeks prior and without intake and exhaust, so that's not 100% accurate.
On the the other customers car this was just with a JLT CAI and the tune.

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Alex,

Don't take this the wrong way, I know you're doing your job, but you're the voice of AM and Bama right now. If those are the gains I can expect from a CUSTOM tune, I'd just buy the 7015 at wholesale and use SCT's baseline tune that allows me to adjust things as I want without emailing you guys for a revision. You see my point here?

Change my mind, because right now, I'm not sold. For $300 I can get the Advantage software and do whatever I want, when I want. All I need is the 7015 to talk to the car.
Hey - This is a custom tune for your car and to take advantage of this fully they need to get datalogs prior to hitting the rollers. Moving forward I know you're working with the Bama guys but if you need to discuss this further shoot me a PM and let's take this offline.

Let me know and I'm here to help alright!

Alex
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Old 03-26-2015, 03:40 PM   #35
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I just sent a few screen shots to Paul from the 93 octane data logs. The log he was looking at was the log driving the car normally before the dyno....47% max throttle. The other 2 were of the car on the dyno, registering a max of 87% throttle on both pulls. The 4th shot I sent him was of the stock run, registering 89% throttle. I sent him 8 logs total, 2 on the street and 6 on the dyno.


Those dyno runs were on the floor. I saw 2 torque management hits come up in the logs, but one was the tip in management and one was transmission, which I noted to Paul. I'm gonna pull the intake and make sure the TB is getting full travel and I'll check the APPS and make sure it's registering full voltage across the range and not limiting the TB artificially.











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