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2018 GT to have 455 HP, and here is why....

12K views 85 replies 18 participants last post by  scottydsntknow 
#1 ·
#2 ·
That's it? I'm more interested to see what the torque curve looks like... probably the same. I mean its got all the gizmos and whatnot but... will still get its *** handed to it by the Camaro.
 
#4 ·
redesign coming in 2 years, why show your full hand now. 455 matches the camaro which, as far as "sales" are concerned, was all it needed to do.

I agree, with the addition of DI and more compression i'd like to see the power band. We'll never get 6.2L pushrod torque out of a DOHC 5.0L, but it will be an improvement nonetheless.
 
#13 ·
Why is everyone focused on a number?


When I was looking a few years ago (2012), the first thing the Chevy salesmen said to me was "We have more horsepower!" yet didn't say a single word on the weight. And if you want to get into the weeds, you have to wait for performance curves to come out of shops.


I don't know off the top of my head, but let's put some specs around a single HP number. TQ, weight, etc.
 
#14 ·
i made a spread sheet for comparing my next possible track car. Two of the criteria are weight / hp obviously, but one that i find particularly useful (assuming you have already calculated the rpm fallback for each gear when shifting) is the distance between peak torque and peak rpm. Take the GT350 for example, i dont remember off the top of my head, but it has something like a 4000 rpm spread from peak to peak. That's a crazy powerband regardless of gearing.
 
#17 ·
It's a long story (it took more than two years to build it). The donor was GT500 of 2007. The mods: Mammoth Kenne Bell (a custom hood had to be made), boost a pump, CAI, exhaust headers, Magnaflow exhaust, dedicated intercooler heat exchanger with appropriate pump, perhaps something else that I don't remember. Then came distant tuning by Jon Lund II. Three stationary datalogs, three running at different rpms and two dyno pulls by exchanging emails. Kenny bells supplies three pullies in the kit. I use the biggest one. It is difficult to keep the car on a warm and dry road. It skids on the 4th almost at any rpm. Hence
a smaller pulley is ruled out. Nothing else is desired.
 

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#28 ·
I use octane 98. Octane 100 or 104 is also available, not at gas stations but in barrels and at a double price. It would be needed if I decided to install a smaller pulley which I do not need for obvious reasons. Given that the car is a bit more powerful than one would expect I only can use it during summer several times on Sundays (less traffic), during sunny weather (the temperature of the road matters), rain should also be excluded. So unfortunately too many limitations. But pleasure is incomparable to anything.
A question: is it worthwhile to go to Mohnton to the annual Mustang show in August? Perhaps someone could enlighten me?
 
#19 ·


RPM's look like 4700... Maybe that's where the engine hits peak torque ?

Then 4th gear 55 mph

Maybe 455 hp.... or maybe its 470.0 hp from the RPM.

Obviously, the 1964.5 miles = anniversary date
289 miles to empty = reference to old 289 engine

All 3 middle dials are at the same position... possibly 11o'clock position...

180 F oil temp
? oil pressure
220 F engine temp
180 + 220 = 400 .... 400 lbs of torque ?
 
#20 ·
Well, the 5.0 has 400 lb/ft now, so I doubt they would raise the HP as they have said they are going to do, and not raise the torque. It would also be odd to raise the HP to 455 and the torque all the way up to 470 (from the current 400)-- that would be almost impossible without forced induction of some sort.
 
#23 ·
Uhh, the Demon is gonna be like 800 hp. As for the numbers, maybe that means 470 hp 455 tq. I don't see how a 55 tq jump would happen though.
 
#30 ·
Doesn't need to happen, the unwashed masses will see the paper HP number and equate that with the Camaro and the 6.4L Dodge stuff and decide based on a test drive. Which is a good thing for Ford tbth... The Mustang is probably the best DD out of all of them but I'd still get a Scat Pack RT Challenger with the 8 speed auto if I had my way... or the funds lol.
 
#31 ·
After more snooping around and reading theories on the compression change + DI, 455 seems too conservative of a hp bump, when the current car is 435hp.

I'm thinking that the new hp is 470 hp. But then that leaves 455 or 400 for torque, 455 seems pretty aggressive. But maybe its 470hp / 455 lbs torque.
 
#32 ·
for 2020 you might be right, but again, think about the change from 14-15. They changed heads and cams and only have us 15 hp at the crank... I know they pull these numbers out of their *** for any number of reasons, but i doubt we will get a ~40 hp bump during a mid model redesign.
 
#39 ·
I was given a lot of heat in the other 2018 thread for saying 475 hp before these came out, and I based it on the upgrades Ford said based especially off of DI plus the RPM boost. My reasoning is that the Stage III power pack for the 15-17 GT's is already rated at 470-475hp. and it too has an RPM boost, but no DI. I think that is far more likely than 455hp, and 470 torque. Although I admit 455 torque seems unlikely too.
 
#40 ·
Of the two scenarios, I think that the more likely would be 477hp/455tq.
I too am having a hard time grasping how you could get a naturally aspirated 5.0 to produce 455hp/477tq. Frankly, I have my doubts about the 455 torque number.
I do think that a 35+ hp increase is completely plausible for a redesign year upgrade. Ford bumped up the horsepower of the 2V by 35 hp in 1999. And as already been stated, they currently offer a tune that puts the Coyote right around that horsepower level.

It will be interesting to see how boost-friendly that a 12:1 compression ratio Coyote engine will be...
 
#44 · (Edited)
470 lbs torque is just crazy talk. Not happening at 5.0L's with out forced induction. You need more displacement or FI.

People keep talking about the stage 3 power pack, with 472hp. I don't think that's a good reference point as you actually lose some torque on the low end, and only gain 5lbs at the high end / peak.

The stage 2 Power Pack is the better comparison, it adds 21 hp and 24 lbs/ft peak gains over stock, which is 456hp, 424 lbs torque. Often times engineers pick a reference point to aim for / beat, usually its a competitor but often times its the last generation too. As if you want to sell new cars you have to beat your old cars for people to want to upgrade! ie: like 2015+ s550 was aim to beat the Boss302 handling.

I wouldn't doubt if the goal was to match/beat stage 2 Power Pack.... so back to the 455hp as a min. goal to beat. And possibly 470 to one up Chevy

2010 Chevy had 400/426 first (413 average)
2011 Ford played catch up to get 412hp out so fast.
2013 Ford upped to 420hp
2015 Ford upped to 435hp
2016 Camaro upped to 455hp
2018 Ford will release 455hp or higher to play catch up, possibly 470, I highly doubt any higher.
 
#41 ·
6.2-liter Coyote engine anyone? :)
 
#45 ·
456 / 424 like the stage 2 power pack you listed seems very plausible. Hell, i still think the 470 is within shouting distance, i'm just not convinced they wont save it for the 2020 new model. If they bring out 470 now, where do they go in 2 years...
 
#46 ·
Trickle down the voodoo motor to the GT.

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#48 ·
Trickle down the voodoo motor to the GT.
And then add Gas Guzzler tax x 100,000 (x whatever percent are GT's) cars a year?!! Doubt it!!

They wouldn't bring that much power to a "budget" volume sports car like the GT, MAYBE a detuned and/or smaller version of it. I could see a 4.8L version with 480hp Voodoo engine in a GT down the road. But even if they wanted a 5.2L Voodoo, they COULDN'T in the current body/chasis... MPG, mpg, mpg.

Its all about EPA, CAFE, MPG's lately. :(

i'd take a cross plane DI 5.2 in a heart beat haha. You wanna talk about torque...
Maybe 5.2L CPC + FI will be the next GT500 that should be just around the corner, despite no information leaks from Ford. I think they're going to surprise everyone like they did with the Ford GT. Out of the blue, they're going to pop up with the GT500 for 50th anniversary in for a late 2017 reveal.

Big V8's are a dying breed. I don't think they could hit EPA/CAFE etc. standard with that 5.2L CPC engine. More likely smaller V8's and V6's with FI will be coming.

To hit the increasing MPG targets, Ford is going to have to go with turbos across all vehicles, and more and more lightweight (aluminum, composites, & carbon fiber) parts. Manufacturers can get away with small niche cars (GT350, Z28, ZL1, etc.), as their weighted averages don't hurt the overall MPG ratings for the company's cars. But we are in the twighlight years of MUSCLE cars.

I look at the high end car manufacturers as they're cutting edge and a lot of their engine tech works it way over. For example, Ferrari Italia 458 dropped over half a liter displacement when transitioning to the new Italia 488. They went from 4.5L natural aspirated to 3.9L turbo.

Porsche 911 went from 3.4L NA to 3.0L turbo.
911 S went from 3.8L to 3.0L with bigger turbos, better exhaust.

And all of these examples gained quite a bit of hp in the process.

I wanted to buy the "last big naturally aspirated V8" Mustang from Ford, and then keep that car as a long term collector / weekend car. I kind of thought my 2014 GT might have been it. Then I thought my 2017 was going to be it. (thought the 3.7L V6 Ecoboost might replace V8 in 2018's). Guess, I'm going to have to buy like a 2019+ GT and see if that's the "last one".
 
#49 ·
V8 will go away... turbo cars all over, then to electric... unless we just don't own vehicles anymore and just call a service like Uber or Lyft or something similar when we need a ride. That is a prediciton I read somewhere recently.
 
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