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Old 05-26-2016, 06:07 PM   #36
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I saw an ecoboost running 12's last night. The damn thing was so quiet it was weird watching it make the 1/4 run.

They've got something going right with these little motors.

However, once you get that thing trying for something in the 11's me thinks you are pushing the internals way too much. I think these guys running in the 12's are taking 1,000's of miles off the life on the engine with every run.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:37 PM   #37
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^Gotta pay to play, I don't blame the engines at all.

People can't complain when they blow an engine on stock internals.


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Old 05-26-2016, 06:47 PM   #38
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You guys act like someone slapped a turbo on a 4 cylinder for the first time last week... stock motor in the 400s 4 cylinders are a dime a dozen. I'm having a real hard time biting my tongue but quite frankly none of you know what you are talking about. Hell, i dont even own the car, but i have been in the turbo 4 game for a long time.
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Old 05-26-2016, 06:49 PM   #39
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Quote:
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You guys act like someone slapped a turbo on a 4 cylinder for the first time last week... stock motor in the 400s 4 cylinders are a dime a dozen. I'm having a real hard time biting my tongue but quite frankly none of you know what you are talking about. Hell, i dont even own the car, but i have been in the turbo 4 game for a long time.
Let us know how you really feel.
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:09 AM   #40
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You guys act like someone slapped a turbo on a 4 cylinder for the first time last week... stock motor in the 400s 4 cylinders are a dime a dozen. I'm having a real hard time biting my tongue but quite frankly none of you know what you are talking about. Hell, i dont even own the car, but i have been in the turbo 4 game for a long time.


This.

I had a big turbo SRT-4 making 400+ whp and running 11's for over 20,000 miles before I sold it, never had an issue. That being said, if you're going to try to make big turbo 4 power, you need the right tools to go with it, like an AFR gauge for starters. I'd never trust a mail order tune on a boosted car, much less a stock turbo 4 banger.
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Old 05-27-2016, 06:19 AM   #41
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Just for laughs, did you take it to the Ford service department and try a warranty claim?
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:05 AM   #42
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I've been trying to make that point, but some of the forum "experts" haven't grasped that oncept.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:23 AM   #43
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Wise man also once told me that meth injection is most often a bandaid for a bad tune.
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Old 05-27-2016, 11:45 AM   #44
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Wise man also once told me that meth injection is most often a bandaid for a bad tune.

What wrong with meth injection ?


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Old 05-27-2016, 01:01 PM   #45
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What wrong with meth injection ?


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This is just my opinion, and personal experience, but generally meth injection is used to compensate for timing, not enough or low octane fuel, and too much boost. I wouldn't recommend it on a street car, as it just adds another variable, and if you run out or it doesn't work, then you're hosed.

I tuned cars back in 2003-2004, and I was taught to make the tune safe for everyday use, and if they want to run meth, that's a separate map, or "race tune" for running more boost on good gas.

Again, just my personal opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
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Old 05-27-2016, 03:28 PM   #46
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is the problem with torque due to the small size/limited number of rods & pistons trying to transmit it?

real question folks...I'm sure the answer is yes (in a simplified for me way)
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:36 PM   #47
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You guys act like someone slapped a turbo on a 4 cylinder for the first time last week... stock motor in the 400s 4 cylinders are a dime a dozen. I'm having a real hard time biting my tongue but quite frankly none of you know what you are talking about. Hell, i dont even own the car, but i have been in the turbo 4 game for a long time.
I don't think anyone is saying you can't take a 4 cylinder ecoboost motor and turn it into something fast and reliable. The 2.3L mustang version engine comes from the factory with 310hp and 320lbsft of torque (back when I was a kid, that would have been a real nice modified V8!). The ecoboost also has forged pistons and crank. It is a real engine. Heck, the one they're putting in the Focus RS is 350hp / 350lbft torque. Additionally, I think you save something like 200lbs of weight with the 2.3L ecoboost versus the 5.0L.

What I am saying is that to get a car into the low 12's and below, you certainly aren't doing it with 310hp. So, someone is turning up the power somehow. Usually with more power comes more heat. Lot's of people don't think about that and they don't deal with dissipating the heat. Additionally, they start creating HP in ways that are suboptimal and some (many?) try to do all of this on the cheap. Then things break.

I am not a 4 cylinder turbo expert (and can't ever see myself becoming one). But, I do see enough failures of the ecoboost motors to know that a lot of people are building power improperly and pushing the motors in ways they aren't supposed to be pushed. That's all I'm saying. I talked to the guy who was running in the 12's the other night. He hadn't done anything with the cooling of the engine or the transmission (it was an auto). He did say that it would run hot so he'd have to stop after a few runs to let it cool down (umm....I told him that maybe that's a sign that he needs to add another fan or larger radiator). He seemed clueless about adding a transmission cooler. Then, he looked at me like I had two heads when I suggested changing his driveshaft and half shafts before he has to tow the car home one night. So, I think there is a new class of racers running 4 cylinders that don't realize they may have to do mods like the guys with the V8's have to do.

Personally, I think it's a credit to the engineers designing these engines that they are able to get the power out of 4 cylinders like today's cars AND put a full warranty on them! I also think it's cool as hell that someone can become a turbo expert and create a 4 cylinder fire breathing monster. I'm not a V8 snob. However I prefer V8's, especially today's versions, because you can turn them into even bigger fire breathing monsters and they sound really really cool. But, I think the folks at Ford have possibly created a short term problem in that a lot of people are buying these 4 cylinder turbos and thinking they can simply crank up boost, add nitrous (or meth or whatever), tune the engine with god knows what tune, and not have anything go wrong. It's going to be a learning curve. Unfortunately a number of new car owners are going to be replacing motors through this trial and error process.
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Old 05-27-2016, 09:42 PM   #48
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I don't think anyone is saying you can't take a 4 cylinder ecoboost motor and turn it into something fast and reliable. The 2.3L mustang version engine comes from the factory with 310hp and 320lbsft of torque (back when I was a kid, that would have been a real nice modified V8!). The ecoboost also has forged pistons and crank. It is a real engine. Heck, the one they're putting in the Focus RS is 350hp / 350lbft torque. Additionally, I think you save something like 200lbs of weight with the 2.3L ecoboost versus the 5.0L.

What I am saying is that to get a car below 12, you aren't doing it with 310hp. So, someone is turning up the power somehow. Usually with more power comes more heat. Lot's of people don't think about that and they don't deal with dissipating the heat. Additionally, they start creating HP in ways that are suboptimal and some (many?) try to do all of this on the cheap. Then things break.

I am not a 4 cylinder turbo expert (and can't ever see myself becoming one). But, I do see enough failures of the ecoboost motors to know that a lot of people are building power improperly and pushing the motors in ways they aren't supposed to be pushed. That's all I'm saying. I talked to the guy who was running in the 12's the other night. He hadn't done anything with the cooling of the engine or the transmission (it was an auto). He did say that it would run hot so he'd have to stop after a few runs to let it cool down (umm....I told him that maybe that's a sign that he needs to add another fan or larger radiator). He seemed clueless about adding a transmission cooler. Then, he looked at me like I had two heads when I suggested changing his driveshaft and half shafts before he has to tow the car home one night. So, I think there is a new class of racers running 4 cylinders that don't realize they may have to do mods like the guys with the V8's have to do.

Personally, I think it's a credit to the engineers designing these engines that they are able to get the power out of 4 cylinders like today's cars AND put a full warranty on them! I also think it's cool as hell that someone can become a turbo expert and create a 4 cylinder fire breathing monster. I'm not a V8 snob. However I prefer V8's, especially today's versions, because you can turn them into even bigger fire breathing monsters and they sound really really cool. But, I think the folks at Ford have possibly created a short term problem in that a lot of people are buying these 4 cylinder turbos and thinking they can simply crank up boost, add nitrous (or meth or whatever), tune the engine with god knows what tune, and not have anything go wrong. It's going to be a learning curve. Unfortunately a number of new car owners are going to be replacing motors through this trial and error process.

I don't understand why more people just don't realize this! If Ford could just easily, cheaply, and safely turned the power up they would have done it!


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Old 05-28-2016, 10:55 AM   #49
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Not necessarily, manufacturers of all products have a planned progression for the item, it is very seldom they give you everything right out of the gate. The 2.3 in the Focus RS is a perfect example 350HP vs the Mustangs 310HP.

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Old 05-28-2016, 11:17 AM   #50
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Not necessarily, manufacturers of all products have a planned progression for the item, it is very seldom they give you everything right out of the gate. The 2.3 in the Focus RS is a perfect example 350HP vs the Mustangs 310HP.
I've made this point here before -- and if I had decided on an EB Mustang, I sure would feel cheated by the Focus RS EB engine. 350 HP AND full factory warranty? Ouch!
I wonder if Ford detuned the EB in the Mustang to keep it from being too close to the GT in 0 to 60 times etc. But I do wonder why, being lighter than the 'Stang and with 4 wheel drive and 350 HP the RS only does 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds?
Ford needs to put the RS engine in the Mustang -- if not now, then in the redesign in a couple of years.........AND put the 500 HP Dual Turbo V6 in there as well. An almost 2 ton V8 GT is going away folks -- perhaps sooner than we think.
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Old 05-28-2016, 11:27 AM   #51
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I've made this point here before -- and if I had decided on an EB Mustang, I sure would feel cheated by the Focus RS EB engine. 350 HP AND full factory warranty? Ouch!
I wonder if Ford detuned the EB in the Mustang to keep it from being too close to the GT in 0 to 60 times etc. But I do wonder why, being lighter than the 'Stang and with 4 wheel drive and 350 HP the RS only does 0 to 60 in 4.7 seconds?
Ford needs to put the RS engine in the Mustang -- if not now, then in the redesign in a couple of years.........AND put the 500 HP Dual Turbo V6 in there as well. An almost 2 ton V8 GT is going away folks -- perhaps sooner than we think.

People have been saying V8 Mustangs are going away since 1973 so whatever.


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Old 05-28-2016, 11:44 AM   #52
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People have been saying V8 Mustangs are going away since 1973 so whatever.


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With the way emissions and fuel mileage management and restrictions are going it would not surprise me to see V8s go the way of their big block brethren. I prefer a V8 over a V6 any day. I do not care much at all for 4cyl engines. They lack the torque of a V8.

There are people that will disagree with me. There are those that will say small displacement, forced induction engines are just as powerful while being more efficient. Those people may be right. However, I don't see many supercars running small displacement engines. Top Fuel and Funny cars are putting out 10,000-11,000 HP, and you cannot build those numbers with a little engine.

I don't have control over the evolution of the automotive industry. BMW has a 4 cyl, quad turbo in the research stages. BMW is also running a hybrid supercar.

I don't like drive by wire crap either. I prefer having physical control over my vehicle. There are not many, if any vehicles made today that are not completely electronic.

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Old 05-28-2016, 12:01 PM   #53
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People have been saying V8 Mustangs are going away since 1973 so whatever.
In 1974 (Mustang II) I don't think there WAS a V8 available, was there? The King Cobra came out later with the 302 stuffed in there -- but not in '74, right?
Not too proud to admit that I had a 1974 V6 Mach 1 automatic -- that couldn't get out of its own way. Totally miserable little Pinto based abomination. But then again, I lusted after a King Cobra not soon after, although I couldn't afford one, so waited until a 1979 Pace Car with the V8.....which was also supremely under powered. Had the cool psychedelic patterned houndstooth Recaros though!
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Old 05-28-2016, 12:06 PM   #54
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In 1974 (Mustang II) I don't think there WAS a V8 available, was there? The King Cobra came out later with the 302 stuffed in there -- but not in '74, right?

Not too proud to admit that I had a 1974 V6 Mach 1 automatic -- that couldn't get out of its own way. Totally miserable little Pinto based abomination. But then again, I lusted after a King Cobra not soon after, although I couldn't afford one, so waited until a 1979 Pace Car with the V8.....which was also supremely under powered. Had the cool houndstooth Recaros though!

There wasn't a V8 for a year maybe 2 and the Ford Probe was supposed to be the 1990 Mustang neither stuck. If anything the new technology is making V8's viable again. I hope they do stop making them I got mine!


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Old 05-28-2016, 12:13 PM   #55
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There wasn't a V8 for a year maybe 2 and the Ford Probe was supposed to be the 1990 Mustang neither stuck. If anything the new technology is making V8's viable again. I hope they do stop making them I got mine!
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Old 05-28-2016, 12:22 PM   #56
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If Ford IS going to keep the V8 after 2020, they are going to have to invest in Direct Injection and cylinder deactivation. Doing both for the 5.0 is going to cost them big $$'s and with the mpg standards ramping up so rapidly, are they going to be willing to make this investment?
I would not be surprised to see Ford go to a 3.8 to 4.2 liter V8 with dual turbos if they want to still have V8 bragging rights.
The 3.5 EB makes a GREAT towing engine in the F-150, and a smaller V8 with dual turbos could be amortized better if made for the Mustang AND the F-150.
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Old 05-28-2016, 12:31 PM   #57
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If Ford IS going to keep the V8 after 2020, they are going to have to invest in Direct Injection and cylinder deactivation. Doing both for the 5.0 is going to cost them big $$'s and with the mpg standards ramping up so rapidly, are they going to be willing to make this investment?

I would not be surprised to see Ford go to a 3.8 to 4.2 liter V8 with dual turbos if they want to still have V8 bragging rights.

The 3.5 EB makes a GREAT towing engine in the F-150, and a smaller V8 with dual turbos could be amortized better if made for the Mustang AND the F-150.

They probably will come out with direct ignition or whatever by them. And the 3.5 EB is not going to hold up like the V8. We have both at work and as the miles rack up you can feel the EB becoming tired and the V8 feels like it's just breaking in


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Old 07-07-2016, 02:31 PM   #58
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Just an update about the blown motor, Ford covered it under warranty!!! yes you read that right they gave him a brand NEW long block and turbo. He put all the stock parts back on, took the meth kit off and put the stock tune back on and they covered it.
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Old 07-07-2016, 04:22 PM   #59
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Wow.
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Old 07-07-2016, 04:26 PM   #60
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Well, hopefully they wont do the same thing twice. The car owner that is.


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Old 07-09-2016, 07:42 AM   #61
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thx for update

I didn't see that one coming
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Old 07-09-2016, 10:05 AM   #62
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I need this dealer lol
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Old 08-09-2016, 09:52 AM   #63
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Pretty sure, the turbo in the eb focus is bigger and has a different to end then the mustang... am i wrong?
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Old 08-09-2016, 11:54 AM   #64
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Pretty sure, the turbo in the eb focus is bigger and has a different to end then the mustang... am i wrong?
To have added 40 HP over the engine in the Mustang, I am sure that there are some significant differences.........but if the 350 HP engine works in the Focus (and sounds great!) then why not in the Mustang? The 'Stang got shorted here!
Lighter and faster, better turn in, better mpg --- and probably a 0 to 60 time spot on the GT.....oh, just answered my own question didn't I?
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Old 08-09-2016, 12:52 PM   #65
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And it's AWD haha. Maybe the 2017 mustang will have a little update?



I take that back, was looking at them sunda yand yesterday. Isn't the case
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Old 08-09-2016, 01:09 PM   #66
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My 2cents

I have a big turbo kit, full including IC, all charge pipes, full exhaust, 3.55 gears, aluminum DS, upgraded bearings, etc. I am running Tune+ tune off the Cobb AP, and an AEM meth kit at 25.5PSI.

I am running race oil Valvoline VR1, colder plugs as well. (Densos)

Doing a hard pull in 2nd gear may not be the best if you go high RPM in this motor, even with the turbo, more octane, lower AITs, more timing etc, I find that dropping the RPMS instead of redlining it though the gears like 5500RPM shifts is a good safe(r) way to roll into it anyway. I have 9K on the new turbo setup and I am just finishing the meth tuning but I have been doing like a dozen 3rd gear pulls with nothing but good results.

That being said, it can happen to any motor at any time with any build, and when you mod, and tune and add power the chances could be higher than normal. I have put this engine through its paces and its been rock solid.

Maybe I have a good one I do not know but all I can say is make sure you got 3 or 4K ready in case you need a short block at all times when you increase boost by 7 or greater PSI anyway. =) Also should point out this is a daily driver, if my motor blows its going back to stock super quick anyways.
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Old 08-09-2016, 02:22 PM   #67
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First year for the 302 was 1975 with 140 HP. Still took over ten seconds for zero to sixty.
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Old 08-09-2016, 06:58 PM   #68
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First year for the 302 was 1975 with 140 HP. Still took over ten seconds for zero to sixty.
I think that our 2016 4 cylinder Equinox 4WD is faster 0 to 60 than my 1979 5.0 Pace Car Mustang was!
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Old 08-09-2016, 10:53 PM   #69
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I have to go with Voltwings...2.3l tubo motors have been stuffed into Fords since the mid 80's...I had the pleasure on knowing two of the most knowledgeable 2.3l engine builders in the country, one in Portland, OR and the other in Chino, CA. I bought an 88 Thunderbird Turbo coupe and both Loynings Engine Service and Esslinger Engineering put together a very stout 2.3l...Esslinger did the head work and Loynings put the motor together and dyno'd it. The car was never on the strip as I had a drag only car...it was a great highway car and on the freeway there weren't many cars that could show me their tail lights.....of course this was 26 years ago.
If you want to build a motor....any motor.....for maximum HP/TQ you had better spend some thought about the bottom end before you put holes in the pavement...IMHO
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