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Old 10-19-2015, 08:58 AM   #1
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Anyone use the watts link setup?

Anyone have any experience with the whiteline watts link setup?
lofty price but from the small amount who have tried it, seems to be one of the most worthwhile suspension mods available
anyone? ty
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:12 AM   #2
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Talk to Soccer about Watt's links. I don't have any experience with them but from what I have researched a Watt's on a street car is only marginally better if at all than a well put together PHB setup.


BMR is also taking pre-orders for their Watt's setup now I believe or its already out.
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Old 10-19-2015, 09:37 AM   #3
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ok, interesting to hear it may not be worth it.
not to branch off too far but same question regarding lower control arms. stiffening up to reduce that wheel hop, good results?
good to know youre not too far in jersey!
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Old 10-19-2015, 10:50 AM   #4
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I had some success reducing wheel hop with aftermarket rear LCAs. They are a pretty easy and inexpensive upgrade, so relatively little downside. BMR makes a couple of varieties. Just be sure to lube the polyurethane bushings liberally to prevent squeaking!
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Old 10-19-2015, 11:35 AM   #5
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Suspension is always an interesting issue as one persons favorite is another's nightmare. No two people drive the same and no two cars are the same.
With that said the only reason I would consider a watts linkage is for racing...as mentioned on the street an adjustable panhard is just about as good.
One issue with wheel hop is that the rearend moves too much and when I tore my 14 TrakPak Mustang's rear suspension apart with less than 7000 miles I found that the UCA and carrier bushings were already starting to tear and crack....these are rubber bushings and take a tremendous amount of twisting. I replaced the carrier bushing with BMR's poly bushing and replaced the OE UCA with Whiteline adjustable....unfortunately I replaced the LCA's at the same with Whiteline adjustables and didn't get the chance to see if I had just replaced the UCA and carrier bushing if I could have solved most of the hopping. After replacing the complete rear suspension...UCA/carrier bushing/LCA's and adjustable panhard I have no hop....although I have 285/35/20's in the rear and have never put slicks on it...then I was just tired of the clunking so I replaced the two piece driveshaft with a one piece and the car is again smoother and less noise than when it was new....IMHO
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Old 10-19-2015, 12:04 PM   #6
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A Watts for street is just jewelry. Not needed. It's complicated, bulky, heavy and expensive.
What actually changes when you put a watts link on is the roll center, this is the difference you feel. You can change the roll center with an adjustable pan hard bar too. No, not the length, but the height. Steeda has a nice little adjustable pan hard bar setup which is PLENTY good but involves some fabricating to get it installed.
Yes, a watts link keeps the rear centered in the car a little better, but it's such a minute difference you would never feel it. Another benefit to the watts is that it has the same action in both directions, but if the pan hard is set up properly it is just as good. I could give you two identical cars, one with a watts link and one with a properly set up pan hard bar with the same roll centers on each and you would never ever be able to tell the difference.

Its the roll center that dictate how the car handles, not the method of linkage attached to it.
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Old 10-20-2015, 06:50 AM   #7
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The new BMR watts link weights 22 lbs. I will change my oe mufflers to offset the weight difference. It's price is $550.00 a little less that Cortex or Whiteline.
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioAl View Post
The new BMR watts link weights 22 lbs. I will change my oe mufflers to offset the weight difference. It's price is $550.00 a little less that Cortex or Whiteline.
A pan hard bar weighs 5 pounds and it's free.
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:57 AM   #9
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i definitley appreciate the feedback, the reviews on it over at AM make it sound like the the car cant live without it
im thinking pan hard bar
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Old 10-20-2015, 08:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olerodder View Post
Suspension is always an interesting issue as one persons favorite is another's nightmare. No two people drive the same and no two cars are the same.
With that said the only reason I would consider a watts linkage is for racing...as mentioned on the street an adjustable panhard is just about as good.
One issue with wheel hop is that the rearend moves too much and when I tore my 14 TrakPak Mustang's rear suspension apart with less than 7000 miles I found that the UCA and carrier bushings were already starting to tear and crack....these are rubber bushings and take a tremendous amount of twisting. I replaced the carrier bushing with BMR's poly bushing and replaced the OE UCA with Whiteline adjustable....unfortunately I replaced the LCA's at the same with Whiteline adjustables and didn't get the chance to see if I had just replaced the UCA and carrier bushing if I could have solved most of the hopping. After replacing the complete rear suspension...UCA/carrier bushing/LCA's and adjustable panhard I have no hop....although I have 285/35/20's in the rear and have never put slicks on it...then I was just tired of the clunking so I replaced the two piece driveshaft with a one piece and the car is again smoother and less noise than when it was new....IMHO
somehow my phone didnt pick this up and im just now seeing it. thanks for the info, very helpful
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:20 AM   #11
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i definitley appreciate the feedback, the reviews on it over at AM make it sound like the the car cant live without it
im thinking pan hard bar
You could sell a chrome turd on a mustang website and people would rave about the flavor.

Not that this is a turd mind you, just more a referendum on some reviewers.
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:29 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Fabman View Post
You could sell a chrome turd on a mustang website and people would rave about the flavor.

Not that this is a turd mind you, just more a referendum on some reviewers.
That was hilarious!
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Old 10-20-2015, 10:29 AM   #13
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Chrome turd, to be installed in rear of vehicle for more weight above rear tires, thus resulting in slightly better weight distribution and marginally better traction. Price: $49.99
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:24 AM   #14
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I can see it now:

"WOW BEST MOD I'VE EVER BOUGHT! WORTH EVERY PENNY! BETTER THAN ALL THE CRAPPY CHROME TURDS ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW! COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED HOW THE CAR HANDLES! 8/8 GR8 M8, 10/10 IGN!"

Time to mosey on over to the AM Product Suggestion thread...
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Old 10-20-2015, 11:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CodyC View Post
I can see it now:

"WOW BEST MOD I'VE EVER BOUGHT! WORTH EVERY PENNY! BETTER THAN ALL THE CRAPPY CHROME TURDS ON THE MARKET RIGHT NOW! COMPLETELY TRANSFORMED HOW THE CAR HANDLES! 8/8 GR8 M8, 10/10 IGN!"

Time to mosey on over to the AM Product Suggestion thread...
And then....."New lighter billet aluminum turds! Throw away those old heavy outdated steel steel turds and go billet!"


.......Followed 6 months later with New Carbon fiber turds!
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:37 PM   #16
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Case in point:
New Mid-Pipe Double X
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Old 10-20-2015, 12:59 PM   #17
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The real benefit with the Watts Link over the Panhard Bar is being able to adjust your roll center even more, and its not biased toward one side like a pan hard bar is.... But if you never track the car and don't run real sticky tires then no real need for it. If you do 1-2 events a year or a couple auto crosses i would say go for it.

It all depends on how you plan to use the car.

I like my Panhard bar. But i know i won't be keeping it forever.
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:31 PM   #18
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lol this post def took an interesting turn haha
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Soccerluvr4 View Post
The real benefit with the Watts Link over the Panhard Bar is being able to adjust your roll center even more, and its not biased toward one side like a pan hard bar is.... But if you never track the car and don't run real sticky tires then no real need for it. If you do 1-2 events a year or a couple auto crosses i would say go for it.

It all depends on how you plan to use the car.

I like my Panhard bar. But i know i won't be keeping it forever.
What it comes down to is "The Jacking effect".
The theory here is that pushing on the bar will lift the car in the compression direction.
This is true IF:
1) the bar is pointing down towards the ground towards the outside of the turn
2) The tires generate enough side bite to lift the weight of the car in a corner. (more pounds of lateral bite than the weight of the car)

Answer #1) The pan hard bar SHOULD be mounted level-not at an angle.
answer #2) Unless the car is VERY light and you have VERY wide and STICKY tires with EXCELLENT suspension, you will not be able to generate enough grip for this to have any noticeable effect.

Moral of the story:
A street car with street tires will never ever generate enough side bite to matter. I'm not saying don't buy one or that watts aren't good....just understand the reality's before you make the choice.

And in case you don't believe me, a former professional stock car chassis designer and championship driver, Kenny Brown also uses Pan Hard bars on their full on race cars because the watts simply isn't worth the weight, complexity and cost penalty. It's just more important to have the roll center where you want it than what the linkage looks like. But then hey, what the flock do I know?
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Old 10-20-2015, 01:50 PM   #20
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Here you go:

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Old 10-20-2015, 01:55 PM   #21
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amazing what you can find on youtube:

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