Can a gt40 or gt40p head take 600'inch lift - Mustang Evolution

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Old 01-31-2016, 04:01 PM   #1
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Can a gt40 or gt40p head take 600'inch lift

Hello. Im building my 1988 ranger its got a 1976 351 windsor in it
My question is if i use the camshaft kit listed below can i use it with a gt40 head or gt40p head? Because i heard the max liff for a gt40 head is 550 lift, can i take it to a machine shop?Can a gt40 or gt40p head take 600 lift?
Any idea the cost?
Any info would helpful n appreciated

Summit Racing Part Number:CCA-K35-254-4
UPC: 036584034278
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,800-7,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 250
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 256
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 250 int./256 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 294
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 306
Advertised Duration: 294 int./306 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.554 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.558 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.554 int./0.558 exh.
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Grind Number: FW XE294H-10
Computer-Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.430 in.
Retainers Included: Yes
Locks Included: Yes
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Old 01-31-2016, 05:16 PM   #2
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Anything can be done with enough money. Short answer, no, not easily. And if you did it wouldn't matter because they flow nowhere near enough to take advantage of a big lift cam like that. Also they are way way WAY too small for a 351. Hell they are too small for a 302...

Do yourself a favor and get a set of heads for a 351. AFR185s or TW190s minimum. If you are still dead set on the GT40s, run them box stock and prepare for a stump puller of a motor that falls flat on its face at 4500 RPM.

And as far as porting. Best case scenario they flow about as well as an AFR165. Still too small for a 351 and they are now maxed out as far as the casting. And it'll run you $1k+ including the cost of the heads to get it all done. Total effort in futility.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. I went around the porting/modding GT40 merry-go-round about 10 years ago and wasted a LOT of money doing it. Trying to save you the trouble.
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:03 PM   #3
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Anything can be done with enough money. Short answer, no, not easily. And if you did it wouldn't matter because they flow nowhere near enough to take advantage of a big lift cam like that. Also they are way way WAY too small for a 351. Hell they are too small for a 302...

Do yourself a favor and get a set of heads for a 351. AFR185s or TW190s minimum. If you are still dead set on the GT40s, run them box stock and prepare for a stump puller of a motor that falls flat on its face at 4500 RPM.

And as far as porting. Best case scenario they flow about as well as an AFR165. Still too small for a 351 and they are now maxed out as far as the casting. And it'll run you $1k+ including the cost of the heads to get it all done. Total effort in futility.

Sorry if this isn't what you want to hear. I went around the porting/modding GT40 merry-go-round about 10 years ago and wasted a LOT of money doing it. Trying to save you the trouble.

Thanks for the reply and info i appreciate it.
Ya the heads i want to use was trick flow twisted wedge 11R heads but the cost at $2200 a set. I figured they would flow pretty good with that cam.
Spring is coming up and im getting inpatient waiting on getting the 11R heads so thats why i was asking about the gt40 heads,i figured it be alot more work then its worth.

But i know the TF 11R heads would be worth every penny.
Have you ever use this cam kit? Or a cam with the same lift?
Just trying to figure out how much power it would make around about? If its impressive or not?
My goal is to make a fast *** 351 windsor just looking for some tips or pointers
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Old 02-01-2016, 12:28 PM   #4
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More lift does not always mean more power... there is a lot more to a cam profile than just lift.


As for as $2200 for the heads, that's about normal for a set of heads that'll make a 351 build real fast. You are looking at between $6-$8k for a reliable and powerful 351 based motor and that's just the motor. The rest of the car will need suspension, chassis bracing, a driveline that can take big numbers, a fuel system etc... etc...


Done right you are looking in the $15-$20k range and that's if you do all the work yourself and run into no surprises. Not including the cost of the vehicle. Might make more sense to just buy something already done.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:05 PM   #5
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Scotty is correct, the GT40/GT40P are not going to make the HP/TQ that aftermarket heads are......what are you looking to get out of the 351w in the HP/TQ area????
I've built a number of 351w based motors and the four things that make HP in a Carburetor motor are compression, cam, heads and bore and stroke. I've always used TrickFlow R heads and my last ones were massaged by Roush/Yates. With that said you don't need to spend $2200 on 11R heads unless you want to make over 550HP......and that is right on the ragged edge of the OE blocks strenght. I've made 650HP and 550lbft of torque with a 408ci motor....although I put 4bolt mains on a 71 block....you can do this with a late 71 to early 74 block and these blocks have an extra 10lbs of material in the main web area for just that reason.
If you use the stock block that you have you probably will have to fly-cut the pistons to gain needed room for the 0.600 lift cam....plus the pistons/rods/crank may not be up to the task of producing that much HP for very long. If you are looking for 450+HP I'd go with a roller hydraulic cam and a set of Edelbrock E-Street if you keep your stock pistons as they are about 60cc chambers........
So....if you want a fast*******351w tear the motor down and have the deck surfaced, check and polish the crank, put ARP bolts in the rods and have them sized, use new rings..gap them to 0.35...put new bearings in and assemble it.....go for a GT35 Turbo setup and some AFR 205 heads....put 1/2" ARP studs and good FelPro 1011-2 gaskets, relieve the pistions for the cam with a dremel,
use a .550/.560 split lift, .230/.234 split duration with 114 degree LSA....My guess is that at around 7/8psi you should be making 650HP..........of course you are going to have to run race gas.........Oh yes, and an automatic trans with 4500rpm stall and a 9" rear end..............is that enough for you?????
One last thing....how much HP and how fast is only up to you're pocket book!!!!!
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:27 PM   #6
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^Don't think that or what I said was what he wanted to hear. Knew a guy in tech school who thought $6k (in 2002) was enough to do the motor and his rusted out 69 pickup. $5500 later and a 383 making roughly 450hp he got to enjoy it for appx 3 months before the trans went out and he had no money and sold the whole thing for next to nothing.
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:13 PM   #7
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351w junk yard motors worth taking home are getting few and far between...even the late ones.
Just to do priority oiling to the block, run an exterior oil line to the distributor gear and timing chain, surface, bore, line bore and drill for 4 bolt mains you are talking $1000....which is half of what you can by a good aftermarket block with 4 bolt mains on all 5.
I love the 351, 383, 393, 408, 418, 427, 454....Maybe I need to build a motor????
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:32 PM   #8
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I've seen a few of the "football rod" motors with home ported D0 heads (i think) and a big shot of nitrous do well but those were purposely shoestring budget just to see what they could do builds.

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Old 02-02-2016, 08:24 PM   #9
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Not to get too far off track...a number of years ago a friend that used to work at Roush/Yates told me that they bought a mid 90's truck motor that was purchased at a wrecking yard, pulled it apart and just refurbished with new rings and bearings...they used the stock crank/rods/pistons. They used a set of Roush/Yates TrickFlow R heads with 56 or 58cc chambers....put a healthy roller cam, and TrickFlow intake and someones 75 or 80 TB along with 80 something injectors and did 420hp on the engine dyno. Then they put twin turbo's on it and did 7psi and over 600hp, 12psi and almost 800hp, and finally got to 21psi at over 1000hp and 1000lbft of torque at less than 6000rpm before the motor became a heap of metal on the dyno floor....Jerry used to preach to me that, "OE components have no way of recognizing boost pressure", and my comment to him was always the same....Ok......if you say so.
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Old 02-07-2016, 12:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottydsntknow View Post
More lift does not always mean more power... there is a lot more to a cam profile than just lift.


As for as $2200 for the heads, that's about normal for a set of heads that'll make a 351 build real fast. You are looking at between $6-$8k for a reliable and powerful 351 based motor and that's just the motor. The rest of the car will need suspension, chassis bracing, a driveline that can take big numbers, a fuel system etc... etc...


Done right you are looking in the $15-$20k range and that's if you do all the work yourself and run into no surprises. Not including the cost of the vehicle. Might make more sense to just buy something already done.
about 10k for a turn key 351351
this one is in my factory 5 ,I had them add the clutch, blow proof bell. came out to just over 15k http://fordcobraengines.com/product/...cobra-replica/
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Old 02-08-2016, 09:08 AM   #11
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If I was to every buy a pre-built pushrod, it would be from www.fordstrokers.com no question at all. Doesn't matter if it was cheaper somewhere else.
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Old 02-08-2016, 10:36 AM   #12
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Personally I would never buy a crate motor....unless you've got $1000 bills falling out of your pocket and really don't care to know how to put a motor together....my feeling is that if you don't put it together you will never know how to tune it or diagnose issues if there are any....With that said if you buy a crate motor make sure the motor has been broken in on an engine dyno and you have the paperwork to back it up.
Maybe because I'm old school or just old....I would never feel completely safe buying a motor I had not put together with my own two hands....and would never put anything together making more than 450hp that I hadn't run-in on an engine dyno......IMHO
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Old 02-11-2016, 01:47 PM   #13
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There's something to be said for a warranty. Most crate motors come with one which is part of the $ discrepancy
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:23 PM   #14
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In over 35 years of building my own motors I've never had a warranty issue....because I put it together myself and know exactly what components were put in and how they were put together.......never had an engine issue with any of my motors...on the track or on the dyno.
Again, how many crate engines come with dyno sheets......a Warranty is only as good as the paper they are written on and who pays for taking the motor out of the car.......where do you send the motor.........how long is the car without a motor and who pays for putting the motor back in..........the only warrantied crate engine issue I've ever seen taken care of without any hassle was on a Roush 427SBF....very professional and quick resolution.
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