Kerry didn't get an Honorable discharge from the Navy!! - Mustang Evolution

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Old 11-02-2004, 07:50 AM   #1
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Kerry didn't get an Honorable discharge from the Navy!!

The New York Sun
Kerry's Discharge Is Questioned by an Ex-JAG Officer
by Thomas Libscomb
November 1, 2004
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A former officer in the Navy's Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve has built a case that Senator Kerry was other than honorably discharged from the Navy by 1975, The New York Sun has learned. The "honorable discharge" on the Kerry Web site appears to be a Carter administration substitute for an original action expunged from Mr. Kerry's record, according to Mark Sullivan, who retired as a captain in the Navy's Judge Advocate General Corps Reserve in 2003 after 33 years of service as a judge advocate. Mr. Sullivan served in the office of the Secretary of the Navy between 1975 and 1977.
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On behalf of the Kerry campaign, Michael Meehan and others have repeatedly insisted that all of Mr. Kerry's military records are on his Web site at johnkerry.com, except for his medical records. "If that is the case," Mr. Sullivan said, "the true story isn't what was on the Web site. It's what's missing. There should have been an honorable discharge certificate issued to Kerry in 1975, if not earlier, three years after his transfer to the Standby Reserve-Inactive."
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Another retired Navy Reserve officer, who served three tours in the Navy's Bureau of Personnel, points out that there should also have been a certified letter giving Mr. Kerry a choice of a reserve reaffiliation or separation and discharge. If Mr. Meehan is correct and all the documents are indeed on the Web site, the absence of any documents from 1972 to 1978 in the posted Kerry files is a glaring hole in the record.
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The applicable US Navy regulation, now found at MILPERSMAN 1920-210 "Types of Discharge for Officers," lists five examples of conditions required to receive an honorable discharge certificate, four required to receive a general discharge "not of such a nature as to require discharge under conditions other than honorable," and seven for "the lowest type of separation from the naval service. It is now officially in all respects equivalent to a dishonorable discharge."
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Kerry spokesmen have also repeatedly said that the senator has an honorable discharge. And there is indeed a cover letter to an honorable discharge dated February 16,1978,on the Kerry Web site. It is in form and reference to regulation exactly the same as one granted Swiftboat Veterans for Truth member Robert Shirley on March 12, 1971, during a periodic "reduction in force (RIF)" by the Naval Reserve. The only significant difference between Mr. Kerry's and Mr. Shirley's is the signature information and the dates. In a RIF, officers who no longer have skills or are of an age group the Navy wishes to keep in reserve are involuntarily separated by the Navy and given their appropriate discharge. This is a normal and ongoing activity and there is no stigma attached to it.
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Kerry spokesman David Wade did not reply when asked if Mr. Kerry was other than honorably discharged before he was honorably discharged. "Mr. Meehan may well be right and all Mr. Kerry's military records are on his Web site," Mr. Sullivan said. "Unlike en listed members, officers do not receive other than honorable, or dishonorable, certificates of discharge. To the contrary, the rule is that no certificate will be awarded to an officer separated wherever the circumstances prompting separation are not deemed consonant with traditional naval concepts of honor. The absence of an honorable discharge certificate for a separated naval officer is, therefore, a harsh and severe sanction and is, in fact, the treatment given officers who are dismissed after a general court-martial."
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With the only discharge document cited by Mr. Kerry issued in 1978, three years after the last date it should have been issued, the absence of a certificate from 1975 leaves only two possibilities. Either Mr. Kerry received an "other than honorable" certificate that has been removed in a review purging it from his records, or even worse, he received no certificate at all. In both cases there would have been a loss of all of Mr. Kerry's medals and the suspension of all benefits of service.
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Certainly something was wrong as early as 1973 when Mr. Kerry was applying to law school. Mr. Kerry has said, "I applied to Harvard, Boston University, and Boston College. I was extremely late. Only BC would entertain a late application." It is hard to see why Mr. Kerry had to file an "extremely late" application since he lost the congressional race in Lowell, Mass., the first week of November 1972 and was basically doing nothing until he entered law school the following September of 1973. A member of the Harvard Law School admissions committee recalled that the real reason Mr. Kerry was not admitted was because the committee was concerned that because Mr. Kerry had received a less than honorable discharge they were not sure he could be admitted to any state bar.
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The fact that Mr. Kerry had cancelled his candidacy for a Congressional seat in 1970 in favor of Father Robert Drinan cannot have hurt Mr. Kerry's admission to Boston College. The Reverend Robert Drinan's previous position was dean of the Boston College Law School. Given this, it is likely that a legal review took place that effectively purged Mr. Kerry's Navy files and arranged for the three-year-late honorable discharge in 1978. There were two avenues during the 1977-1978 time period. This could have been under President Carter's Executive Order 11967, under which thousands received pardons and upgrades for harsh discharges or other offenses under the Selective Service Act. Or it might have merged into efforts by the military to comply with the demands of the 1975 Church Committee. Mr. Sullivan was personally involved in the 1976 and 1977 records review answering Senator Kennedy's demands to determine the scope of any counterintelligence abuses by the military.
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In the Foreign Surveillance Act of 1977, legislation introduced by Mr. Kennedy to enforce the findings of the Church Committee, there is language that literally describes the behavior of Mr. Kerry. The defined behavior that could no longer be subject to surveillance without warrants includes: "Americans having contact with foreign powers in the case of Americans who were active in the protest against US involvement in Vietnam. Some of them may have attended international conferences at which there were representatives of foreign powers, as defined in the bill, or may have been directly in communication with foreign governments concerning this issue."
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One of Mr. Kerry's first acts of office as he entered the Senate on January 3, 1985, was making sure what was still in the Navy files. A report was returned to Mr. Kerry by a Navy JAG on January 25, 1985, and appears on the Kerry Web site. There is an enclosure listed that may have contained a list of files, according to David Myers, the JAG who prepared it, that is not on Mr. Kerry's Web site. It could have provided an index for all of Mr. Kerry's Navy files.
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All officials with knowledge of what specifically happened in Mr. Kerry's case are muzzled by the Privacy Act of 1974. The act makes it a crime for federal employees to knowingly disclose personal information or records. Only Mr. Kerry can do that. As of this writing, Mr. Kerry has failed to sign a Standard Form 180 giving the electorate and the press access to his Navy files.
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The New York Sun
http://www.nysun.com/article/4040
2004 The New York Sun, One SL, LLC. All rights reserved. Terms of Use
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Old 11-02-2004, 08:44 AM   #2
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Ha..more stuff coming out huh?
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:11 AM   #3
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Gotta love all the random "officers" coming out of the wood work now.

Cause they know so much and served with Kerry.

So dumb.

Kerry 05
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:12 AM   #4
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Hey look! you put somebody down! and you don't even know who these officers are or what they even look like, MUCH LESS KNOW them.
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteStang99
Hey look! you put somebody down! and you don't even know who these officers are or what they even look like, MUCH LESS KNOW them.
Technically is not putting down. Its just a matter of opinion of randoms pretty much slandering but its okay cause we all know Kerry is gonna win right....right
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:16 AM   #6
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More useless babble by a Liberal that refuses all facts and believes only the political left wing sound bites and 30 second commercials.

But is all about over. When Bush is reelected it will all be over. Hell if Kerry is elected it will still all be over!!!!
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
More useless babble by a Liberal that refuses all facts and believes only the political left wing sound bites and 30 second commercials.

But is all about over. When Bush is reelected it will all be over. Hell if Kerry is elected it will still all be over!!!!
If thats directed towards me. I can tell you this your wrong packo. I refuse to see any propganda thats released from either parties and supporters. I hate proganda cause it gets brutal such as whats been posted and the many many other things everyone else posts. So poop on you and watch Kerry WILL win
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:22 AM   #8
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"Technically........"


LMFAO!
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:24 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteStang99
"Technically........"


LMFAO!
I knew you get a kick out of that hahaha
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:32 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemustang
If thats directed towards me. I can tell you this your wrong packo. I refuse to see any propganda thats released from either parties and supporters. I hate proganda cause it gets brutal such as whats been posted and the many many other things everyone else posts. So poop on you and watch Kerry WILL win

Did I say you NO!!! Did I mention you NO!!!! It was a general phrase aimed at all Liberal Wacko's

Are you a liberal wacko ?????????????????

Damn the Liberal PARANOIA!!!!!!
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Old 11-02-2004, 10:35 AM   #11
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Let's see Kerry refuses to sign SF180 releasing his military records

Kerry claimed all his records are on his website. The military says there are 100 pages not there.

Kerry got his "honorable" discharge 3 years late and only after a review by a board under presidential direction, which is not SOP for a honorably served member.

I got all my honorable discharges (three of them) on time, the day my service ended, even my inactive reserve honorable discharge which was mailed to me. No reviews needed, must less presidential involvement 3 years after I got out.

Kerry had to get his medal reinstated. He's allowed the implied reason that he misplaced them and needed to have them reissued. Reinstatement (his words) is not a reissue. The military will issue you one set of all the medals you earned after your discharge, all you have to do is send a copy of your DD-214. You do not have to have them reinstated to have them reissued.

Kerry's service has a problem. What it is I do not know, but there is a skeleton in that closet he is hiding for all he's worth. He's also a coward, a traitor and a son of a female dog. And if he's got a problem with that, too bad.

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Old 11-02-2004, 10:41 AM   #12
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who cares, I am just writing in Arnold for prez. That way I can complain whoever is in office
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Old 11-02-2004, 01:51 PM   #13
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Anyone with a less than honorable discharge from the military should not even be able to vote people, you loose your citizenship in this nation, much less be able to be able to hold public office or be President of this Nation!! That is my whole point. This man is not fit to spit on in my opinion, much less be commander in chief or our military!
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Old 11-02-2004, 02:07 PM   #14
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It's hard to get a normal job with a general discharge from the military, much less a dishonorable. I think if there's a chance he wasnt' getting a honorable discharge it just goes to show what kind of a man he really is.
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