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Old 02-20-2005, 02:11 PM   #1
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North Korea problem thickens

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/02/20/us.japan/index.html
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Old 02-20-2005, 02:12 PM   #2
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wow, that's ridiculous.
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Old 02-20-2005, 02:43 PM   #3
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Yea they just keep it up. Japan hasn't attacked a country in what... alittle over 50 years. I am sure they are wanting to test their arsenal out.
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Old 02-20-2005, 03:06 PM   #4
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Yea they just keep it up. Japan hasn't attacked a country in what... alittle over 50 years. I am sure they are wanting to test their arsenal out.
it'll be 65 years this spring. Don't forget after they attacked Pearl harbor they went on to attack British and Dutch colonies in the Pacific and if it weren't for our pounding them in the COral Sea they'd of likely taken New Guina and then aimed for Australia.

But since Hiroshima and Nagasaki thay have been quiet.

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Old 02-20-2005, 03:09 PM   #5
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fukem
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Old 02-20-2005, 06:16 PM   #6
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anyone else see a chernobyl type incident happening again? something goes wrong and blows up without warning?
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Old 02-20-2005, 06:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
it'll be 65 years this spring. Don't forget after they attacked Pearl harbor they went on to attack British and Dutch colonies in the Pacific and if it weren't for our pounding them in the COral Sea they'd of likely taken New Guina and then aimed for Australia.

But since Hiroshima and Nagasaki thay have been quiet.

Steve
After the Sneek attack at Pearl Harbor they spent the rest of the war in regression. They new they had awaken the sleeping Giant (US) and were gambling that their scientist would have the atomic bomb first. When word got to Japan that we had tested the Atomic bomb with success in the desert the entire Japanese group working on the bomb committed suicide. They new it was over But someone forgot to tell the Emperior!!!!!
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Old 02-20-2005, 06:28 PM   #8
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Actually most of you dont the realize the reason N Koreas is a threat if they have nuclear weapons.

Would anyone care to take a stab at it??????
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Old 02-20-2005, 07:05 PM   #9
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Come on people!!! Hey Brent wont you take a crack at it. Please I want to see what you guys know and in return I will let you in on some intelligence the media does not report or does not want you to know
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Old 02-20-2005, 07:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Come on people!!! Hey Brent wont you take a crack at it. Please I want to see what you guys know and in return I will let you in on some intelligence the media does not report or does not want you to know
because we have troops in south korea?
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Old 02-20-2005, 07:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MonteCitan
because we have troops in south korea?
just a small problem. But it was a good guess
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Old 02-20-2005, 07:32 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
just a small problem. But it was a good guess
because they can/will sell them to someone who might use them?
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Old 02-20-2005, 07:38 PM   #13
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because if anything happens to N Korea, China gets involved with its ****ing huge army.
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:17 PM   #14
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No and No. But all good guesses
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:23 PM   #15
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i give up.
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:24 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
No and No. But all good guesses
Ok almighty one tell us this info that the media doesnt report
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:26 PM   #17
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:36 PM   #18
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The US and the rest of the world are frantically trying to stop N Korea and Iran from not only getting nuclear weapons but also the ability to launch multi staged rockets able to get up to the area in space where all the satellites that Monitor weather, provide telecommunications, GPS guidance systems and intelligence gathering and monitoring satellites are located. Several well placed nuclear blast would knock out all of these and because of the area in space would be saturated in radioactive debris for hundreds of years it would throw us back in the telecommunication stone age.

Silicon based processors and chip when exposed to high levels of radiation are useless. We have some shielding of these satellites but this was done in case of random encounters with gamma rays and natural occuring radiation. Not being bombarded by high consentrations of radioactive particles continously.

Right now they are working on new generations of Satellites that will be further away from earth but at a tremendous cost and the fact they are not retrieveable at that distance and without the protection of the earths atmosphere current satellites enjoy they are more susceptible to random encounters with space debris.

So in a nut shell both Iran and N Korea know of this vulnerability and are making strides to gain the ability to knock out the world communication. This is there best chance at holding us at bay and be able to operate without being watched. Places like Iran and N Korea hate the peering eyes of intelligence satellites. So whenever you here of N korea or Iran building multi staged rockets or thinking about space , remember they have no aspiration to go to space or to launch satellites they only want to be able to have a card to use in case there is a possibility of them being attacked.
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Old 02-20-2005, 08:44 PM   #19
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Old 02-20-2005, 09:14 PM   #20
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interesting, hadn't thought about that.
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Old 02-20-2005, 09:25 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteStang99
interesting, hadn't thought about that.
Now you are thinking about it

This is not my opinion this is what is driving the possibility of a very hard hit on both Iran and N Korea in the coming months. This will not be a land invasion but a surgical strike on Missile development sites and nuclear targets. This is a serious situation. This is why they want face to face talks with us. The time is running out before they have the ability to threaten the satellite systems of all the world. These strikes will be unilaterial among The US, Europe, Asia and really all the world.

The threats have been made and the clock is ticking. That is also why Bush is in Europe trying to heal wounds and get some support to help out in Iraq so the shift can address this new issue facing the world. 9/11 would be a drop in the bucket if N Korea or Iran launched these weapons in terms of global disaster and chaos
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Old 02-20-2005, 09:27 PM   #22
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Now you are thinking about it

This is not my opinion this is what is driving the possibility of a very hard hit on both Iran and N Korea in the coming months. This will not be a land invasion but a surgical strike on Missile development sites and nuclear targets. This is a serious situation. This is why they want face to face talks with us. The time is running out before they have the ability to threaten the satellite systems of all the world. These strikes will be unilaterial among The US, Europe, Asis and really all the world.

The threats have been made and the clock is ticking. That is also why Bush is in Europe trying to heal wounds and get some support to help out in Iraq so the shift can address this new issue facing the world. 9/11 would be a drop in the bucket if N Korea or Iran launched these weapons in terms of global disaster and chaos
but Iran already said we shouldn't mess with them because.... well just because!
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Old 02-20-2005, 09:37 PM   #23
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but Iran already said we shouldn't mess with them because.... well just because!
Well think about this. Recently Iran announced a new multi staged rocket in their inventory which our satellites found. Why would a country not interested in space exploration build multi staged rockets.

A. To attack Israel possibly but they dont need multi stage rockets for that.
B. We are really to far to be accurately be hit buy these things and really if they shot them at us we would destroy them.
C. To shoot straight up and without the need for direct or expensive guidance equipment to hit a target directly they only need a weapon to explode in the geosynchronous orbit destroying all satellites. They only need a altitude detonation devices.
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Old 02-20-2005, 10:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
After the Sneek attack at Pearl Harbor they spent the rest of the war in regression.

I suspect the people of Vietnam, Malaysia, Borneo, Singapore, Hong Kong and Burma would disagree, especially since the Japanese overran them after Pearl Harbor and were knocking on India's door.

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Holy crap he's right.
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Old 02-20-2005, 10:14 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Danger Dude
The US and the rest of the world are frantically trying to stop N Korea and Iran from not only getting nuclear weapons but also the ability to launch multi staged rockets able to get up to the area in space where all the satellites that Monitor weather, provide telecommunications, GPS guidance systems and intelligence gathering and monitoring satellites are located. Several well placed nuclear blast would knock out all of these and because of the area in space would be saturated in radioactive debris for hundreds of years it would throw us back in the telecommunication stone age.

Silicon based processors and chip when exposed to high levels of radiation are useless. We have some shielding of these satellites but this was done in case of random encounters with gamma rays and natural occuring radiation. Not being bombarded by high consentrations of radioactive particles continously.

Right now they are working on new generations of Satellites that will be further away from earth but at a tremendous cost and the fact they are not retrieveable at that distance and without the protection of the earths atmosphere current satellites enjoy they are more susceptible to random encounters with space debris.

So in a nut shell both Iran and N Korea know of this vulnerability and are making strides to gain the ability to knock out the world communication. This is there best chance at holding us at bay and be able to operate without being watched. Places like Iran and N Korea hate the peering eyes of intelligence satellites. So whenever you here of N korea or Iran building multi staged rockets or thinking about space , remember they have no aspiration to go to space or to launch satellites they only want to be able to have a card to use in case there is a possibility of them being attacked.
No.

EMP aka electromagnetic pulse is what'll take unshielded electronics out. Not radiation and EMP lasts a very small amount of time, maybe a few hundred milliseconds. And an EMP pulse taking out an ungrounded satellite would be a major trick.

Military satellites are shielded, civilian ones may not be, but they are hardened regardless because the biggest energy generator around, the sun, is constantly bombarding them with a large dose of every type of crap around. The sun nails every satellite out there with more radiation than a nuke or three would, unless the satellite happened to be very close to the exploding nuke. Iran and N. Korea don't have enough nukes to explode close enough to every satellite out there, they could wreak some havoc but in no way possible send us back to a "telecommunications stoneage"


Oh, one final thing, satellites DO NOT orbit inside the atmosphere. If they did they's quickly lose speed, deorbit and burn up unless constantly using fuel to maintain speed, something satellites do not have a lot of, fuel that is. It isn't like AAA is topping off their tanks regularly. So, arth's atmosphere provides no protection and would actually be a serious threat to a satellite's orbital stability if a satellite did encounter any atmosphere.

So, while it might be possible for the axis of evil to mess up some commercial operations (you are assuming without evidence that they could actually get a nuke up into orbit, on target and exploded) they are not a threat to our military satellite capabilities.

Next theory.

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Old 02-20-2005, 10:28 PM   #26
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Well think about this. Recently Iran announced a new multi staged rocket in their inventory which our satellites found. Why would a country not interested in space exploration build multi staged rockets.

A. To attack Israel possibly but they dont need multi stage rockets for that.
B. We are really to far to be accurately be hit buy these things and really if they shot them at us we would destroy them.
C. To shoot straight up and without the need for direct or expensive guidance equipment to hit a target directly they only need a weapon to explode in the geosynchronous orbit destroying all satellites. They only need a altitude detonation devices.

Geosynchronous orbit is a little bit more than 22 thousand miles up. This is where communications satellites are located. You aren't going to be able to pop a nuke or six in geosynchronous orbit and totally wipe out all the satellites out there. Heck a major solar flare does more damage system wide than all the nukes that both NK and Iran could build, much less deliver into orbit somewhere.

Pyongyang to San Fransisco is about 5500 miles and the US is a lot bigger target than any satellite.

In either case, if NK or Iran were to nuke satellites, which would p!ss off more than just the US, or they nuked any spot in the US that would be the end of them.

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Old 02-20-2005, 11:47 PM   #27
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Actually you are right about EMP but that is only short term The long term effects is Radioactive particles that attach to the satellites and cause them to decay . That is the long term effect. Shielding protects against EMP not radioactive particles which impact the satellite and stay with it. The radioactive particles cause the silicon in the chips and processors controlling the satellite to become unstable and then causes shorts and kill the satellites. Some Military satellites are in upper orbits might be out of reach. But for most of the world including weather and communication they are not out of reach. You thinking that they have to actually target a satellite is false. All they have to do is detonate several in the satellites orbit and the radioactive particles will do thier thing on their own without actually having to be relatively close to the targets. Like I said this is not my theory. This was the information I was given this weekend that I spent with one of the leading specialist working on this very problem.

You mentioned Solar flares and yes they are a problem but that is only temporary. With multi staged rockets they can make it to higher orbits and you fail to realize when radioactive material is released it does not go away and orbits around the earth decaying the salellites it come in contact with.

Worrying about a rogue nation shooting us with a few Nuclear weapons would only insure their total annihilation by a counter strike by us. But to threaten to disrupt world wide communications as a tool to prevent attack with just a few nukes is not only pauseable but reality.

No one is going to stand up to us militarily anytime in the near future. But to hold the world at bay with the threat of disruption is a the plan N Korea and Iran are working on diligently as we speak

Oh and you should read this my friend

http://198.65.138.161/org/news/2002/nuke_explosion.htm

When you finish reading this article you also need to realize this cames from Jane's Defense Weekly October 23, 2002 and since then the problem is become more apparent and is on a much higher state of emergency. This will make headlines in the near future. Mark my words!!!
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Old 02-21-2005, 12:26 AM   #28
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mutually assured destruction...
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Old 02-21-2005, 12:42 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteStang99
mutually assured destruction...
No with a rogue nation they would only have a handfull to shoot at us which would cause their demise with a retaliatory strikes

On the otherhand if they shoot them at satellites causing global communictaion blackout would the world see that as a reason to wipe them off the face off the earth. Some our liberal partners would not think so!!!
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Old 02-21-2005, 01:38 AM   #30
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It wouldn't go down that way. That's why all the little countries have big friends. Or want them anyways.
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Old 02-21-2005, 02:10 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteStang99
It wouldn't go down that way. That's why all the little countries have big friends. Or want them anyways.
What big friend does N Korea or Iran have??????


N Korea is a thorn in the side of China. The leader of N Korea is a nutjob and China is really not at all happy with his leadership. China values our trading relationship more than any little 2 bit crap hole like N Korea

Iran has nobody. They are isolated. They have a agreement with Syria OH Boy they are a real threat.

We are dealing with the last remnants of the old world Isolationist. N Korea is holding on to a failed society that is on its last ditch effort to attempt to survive in the modern world and Iran and its religeous rule is right out of the medieval ages and are also finding it hard to live in isolation withthe world evolving around them.

No the cold war showdowns are gone Russia is not the enemy anymore and either is china. There is distrust still but that is waning. There is no nuclear power that will side with either N Korea or Iran
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Old 02-21-2005, 09:05 AM   #32
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I read your link and to tell you the truth if all our LEO satellites were taken out in this scenario it'd be doing us all a big favor anyway. While business might take a hit I would be happier with no pager and less cell phone drivers.

And the scenario is based on tests done before the 1963 ban on air tests of nukes. Things have changed a lot since 1963, especially in satellites and electronics.

In either case this is a pretty far fetched secenario, imo.

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Old 02-21-2005, 09:26 AM   #33
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I read your link and to tell you the truth if all our LEO satellites were taken out in this scenario it'd be doing us all a big favor anyway. While business might take a hit I would be happier with no pager and less cell phone drivers.

And the scenario is based on tests done before the 1963 ban on air tests of nukes. Things have changed a lot since 1963, especially in satellites and electronics.

In either case this is a pretty far fetched secenario, imo.

Steve
Far fetched???? You are misguided. Like I said this in not my theory. This is a serious problem RIGHT NOW. Every Defense Contractor and the Pentagon is working this. All I did was give you a glimps into what is going on right now in the world that was told to me by a person working at the highest level on this very problem. You make it sound like a small inconvenience but it is much more than that. Global Telecommunication, GPS-1, Weather satellites, News and TV broadcast. Armed forces have long relied largely on civilian satellites to relay military communications, navigation, weather forecasting and imaging information. Satellite telephone systems, for example, are essential for peacekeepers who operate regularly in remote areas or in locations where infrastructure has been damaged or destroyed. The US military has also relied on National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) civilian satellites to help plan for its continuing operations in Afghanistan and present and in Iraq.

As far as the 1963 studies they are the last time they were able to observe nuclear air burst. Now in labs at several companies they are bombarding electronic hardware with radioactive particles and the results have shed increasing light on this potential disaster in the making

No you might think this not a problem but I assure you people at the very top of our government are frantically working on this as we speak.

On January 11, 2001, a special commission on threats to U.S. space systems led by Rumsfeld concluded that U.S. satellites were vulnerable to both conventional and nuclear attacks conducted by "rogue states," who presumably would have little to lose in a conflict with the United States.
Even within the Defense Department, there have been studies showing that a nuclear detonation in space, whatever the source, is a shock our entire planet cannot healthily absorb. An April 2001 study by the Defense Threat Reduction Agency entitled "High Altitude Nuclear Detonation against Low Earth Orbit Satellites" concluded that a single low-yield nuclear burst in space could disable every commercial and government satellite in low earth orbit in a matter of weeks. Replacement of damaged satellites at current launch rates would be extraordinarily difficult, expensive, and time-consuming, while higher background radiation levels would continue to degrade any new systems put in orbit for months afterward.

Most commercial communications satellites are in low earth orbit. In their role as conduits for rapid information exchange, they form the backbone of the global economy, and their destruction would chaotically disrupt international markets. Furthermore, the diplomatic consequences of destroying all other countries' LEO satellites in such a strike (including those of our allies) would be almost unimaginable. And the effects would go well beyond economic and diplomatic. Weather prediction and monitoring satellites would also be badly degraded, undermining everything from U.S. military operations to worldwide shipping and transportation to disaster prevention. In addition, crucial military imaging systems such as the Lacrosse, KH-11, and KH-12 photo-reconnaissance satellites would eventually be disabled as well.

The U.S. uses these satellites for target identification for future air strikes, tactical wartime intelligence, and post-bombing damage assessment--tasks that were essential to military success in Iraq, Kosovo, and Afghanistan. The loss of such assets would undermine the use of precision air strikes during wartime to limit U.S. casualties.

In short, the accumulated economic shocks and human casualties caused directly and indirectly by the loss of LEO satellites would be very high and hard to calculate accurately


http://www.spacedaily.com/news/radiation-98a.html
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Old 02-21-2005, 09:38 AM   #34
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Dude, you have no idea what I do for a living or what I know.

For tha last 10 years I have worked in an R&D facility that focuses on chip design and manufacturing processes. And no I do not sweep the floor there. I am right where the cutting edge is in this technology.

Prior to that I spent almost 10 years in the Navy, one of my myriad duties in those ten years was maintaining satellite communictaions.

I further suggest that you look harder at what's claimed to be affected. Some of those "services" you mentioned aren't suceptible according to your referenced links.

As I said, it's far fetched.

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Old 02-21-2005, 10:52 AM   #35
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Dude, you have no idea what I do for a living or what I know.

For tha last 10 years I have worked in an R&D facility that focuses on chip design and manufacturing processes. And no I do not sweep the floor there. I am right where the cutting edge is in this technology.

Prior to that I spent almost 10 years in the Navy, one of my myriad duties in those ten years was maintaining satellite communictaions.

I further suggest that you look harder at what's claimed to be affected. Some of those "services" you mentioned aren't suceptible according to your referenced links.

As I said, it's far fetched.

Steve
Not for a moment did I presume anything about what you do. But the person I was with this weekend is far and away at the forefront in the testing of chip and processor testing with radioactive particles. He was at a summit meeting with top US and world officials trying to get a handle on this very issue.

This was not meant to be a arguement!!! I posted what I was given as information and you seem to want to discredit it and yet you have no clue to the what level my information came from. All I have been trying to say is a person at the top in the space defense industry has said this was a problem. If you dont think so fine but the people at the pentagon do think it is serious so I will believe them.
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