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View Poll Results: is this a good trade.....04 V6 to 99 LS1
Yes 13 68.42%
No 6 31.58%
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:16 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by 97Stallion
You're still kind of comparing apples and oranges here. I agree an LS1 would beat a 4V Cobra, but the 4V cobra is only a 281ci engine. The LS1 is a 350ci engine. That's a HUGE difference. You're talking about 70ci. If you wanna turn the tables they you could compare a 428 cobra jet to an LS1. The bigger engine is usually always going to make more horsepower. And Ford, Chevy, Dodge tunes down the engine horsepower. Ford tuned the 03's down to pave the way for the new shelby. If the new shelby has less hp that older cobras, then it wouldn't be a big deal. Plus there aren't maybe mass produced cars that come stock with close to or over 400hp from the factory that are reasonably priced. I can only think of two at the moment. The Cobra and the Vette. But the point is there really isn't a horsepower war anymore like there used to be. GM decided to call it quits for the most part and dropped the line of the Camero and the Firebird, and now only the Mustang is around. The only real way IMO is to compare two engine of basically the same size. You could do the 351W to the 350, then I would call it even or the 305 to the 302.

well, the 428 isn't made anymore. The 281 and the 350 were rivals when put in the Fbodies and the stangs. Therefore, you have to compare them as apples and apples. I am not just talking about overall horsepower though. The modular engine was new not too long ago and has finally been proven, but then they changed the engine to the 3V engine. The LT1 was created and then the LS1 fixed the problems the LT1 had. from 98-02? the engines were rivals. (not counting 97 cause they were only in vettes that year).

I just think the LS1 engine has more potential than a N/A 4V Ford 4.6. Put heads and a cam in the 4.6 and get about 30-40whp. Put them in the LS1 and get 60whp. With the exception of the 03+ cobra engine, the modular engines were "fairly" weak when compared to the stronger LS1 engines.

I know what you're saying about apples to oranges, but when they are rivals, they have to be compared as the same. I still think the 5.7 is a better engine than the 4.6. (but I know we can all agree that GMs automatic transmissions are def. better than ford's)
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:17 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1
All the 4V/Cobra/everything else comparisons are pointless. The discussion isn't about whether he should get a Cobra or a Mach or a Fox or a TA, it's between the '04 V6 and the '99 TA. I know which one I'd pick.

i think i'd pick the t/a too, but not for $350/mo plus rent as i am looking to move into one soon (goin look at one tommorrow)
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkey
I know what you're saying about apples to oranges, but when they are rivals, they have to be compared as the same. I still think the 5.7 is a better engine than the 4.6. (but I know we can all agree that GMs automatic transmissions are def. better than ford's)
Well I agree partially, but I'm bias toward Fords. The 350 is a very old engine and has been around for years and many more to come. GM has placed lots of R&D into this engine over the course of 30+ years. Ford has really only placed about ~10 years of R&D into the 281. As time goes by and R&D continues, we are seeing smaller engines becoming more powerful and reliable. It wasn't too long ago when the notrious 5.0 was around was only making 215bhp, now were have 4.0 making about the some amount of horsepower and it's a whole liter short. I'm by no means trying to say the 350 is a bad block. If fact it's very sturdy and powerful block, and even though it was a rival of the 281 back in the day, it's still has lots more R&D put into it. It's like a old man racing a little kid.
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Old 07-13-2005, 09:56 PM   #39
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OMFG

The LS1 isn't the 350 of yore. It's a new design that shares exactly two parts with the previous generation 350, in fact the LS1 isn't a 350 CI engine, it's like 347. The LS1 is also a newer design than the Modular motor which has been out for more than 10 years anyway, came out in Lincolns a long time ago.

You can compare the Ford 4.6 in any incarnation against the LS1 in similar trim (NA to NA or blown to blown) and the LS1 is a better choice, period. The 4.6 in it's most tweaked out factory form is about as powerful as the LS1 in moderate tune. IOW the LS1 has way more potential in it and will whip a 4.6 in similar levels of upgrades.

I love arguments based on lack of facts, makes it about as relevant as two whores arguing which is more virtuous.
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:01 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkuzLS1
All the 4V/Cobra/everything else comparisons are pointless. The discussion isn't about whether he should get a Cobra or a Mach or a Fox or a TA, it's between the '04 V6 and the '99 TA. I know which one I'd pick.
you're biased
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:19 PM   #41
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id pick the ls1 over any 4.6, maybe im biased since I dont like the 4.6s unless in dohc form. but then again stock for stock,dollar for dollar,mod for mod,driver for driver the ls1 still eats them. you just not going to get the power out of a 281 as you can a 350. the 350 and 281 werent always compared to each other, used to have to compare the 302 to the 350 and it was actually a pretty close race between the two, the 83?-whatever year fbodies sucked compared to the 5.0.

Quote:
It's like a old man racing a little kid.
and the old man usually wins since hes smarter and better prepared,etc

stallion the 5.0 was rated at 225 in 87-91? so ha and the new v6's still dont have near the torque of the 5.0, the beloved 4.6 in 96-98 didnt even more hp/tq then the 5.0s.

4.6 is a big block (size wise not like 351c/390/427,8 or 9) with honda pistons. I mean if they make a motor the SIZE of a 460 wouldnt you think the displacement would of been a little bit bigger then 281? gimme a break...
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Old 07-13-2005, 10:19 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
OMFG

The LS1 isn't the 350 of yore. It's a new design that shares exactly two parts with the previous generation 350, in fact the LS1 isn't a 350 CI engine, it's like 347.

I love arguments based on lack of facts, makes it about as relevant as two whores arguing which is more virtuous.
it's actually a 346ci to get technical. I am just rounding it to 350 for eases sake.

And I do have a little bit of facts. I am not a pure engine god, but I do know that I like the LS1 more than any of the modular ford engines. And all your points about n/a vs. n/a reiterated my points from previous posts.

oh, and I claim the the title of "less virtuous whore"
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:01 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponycarman
OMFG

The LS1 isn't the 350 of yore. It's a new design that shares exactly two parts with the previous generation 350, in fact the LS1 isn't a 350 CI engine, it's like 347. The LS1 is also a newer design than the Modular motor which has been out for more than 10 years anyway, came out in Lincolns a long time ago.

You can compare the Ford 4.6 in any incarnation against the LS1 in similar trim (NA to NA or blown to blown) and the LS1 is a better choice, period. The 4.6 in it's most tweaked out factory form is about as powerful as the LS1 in moderate tune. IOW the LS1 has way more potential in it and will whip a 4.6 in similar levels of upgrades.

I love arguments based on lack of facts, makes it about as relevant as two whores arguing which is more virtuous.
You're not understanding our/my points. I understand that the LS1 "is not the 350 of yore" but it's the same platform meaing it's still a pushrod engine. It's like making a sculpture. You start with a piece of clay and make something and then you edit it and realize, if we remove this and add this or change this it'll work better.
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Old 07-13-2005, 11:25 PM   #44
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pushrod, yes, but more efficient

no matter what people say, there is a counter to what they say

"the LS1 is a 350, and the 4.6 is a 281"
"well your 4.6L has 4 cams, my LS1 has one cam"

"your mom is funny looking"
"yours smells bad"

put a timing chain on a DOHC 4.6L, and get back to me
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:14 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 97Stallion
You're not understanding our/my points. I understand that the LS1 "is not the 350 of yore" but it's the same platform meaing it's still a pushrod engine. It's like making a sculpture. You start with a piece of clay and make something and then you edit it and realize, if we remove this and add this or change this it'll work better.
OHC engines have been around since before you, your Daddy or his Daddy were around. Just as long as pushrod motors have been,

Ever hear of the Ford Cammer? Big old monster motor of the 60s' with overhead cams, just like the 4.6, so what's Fords problem, 40 years of OHC experience and they can't beat the LS1?

Oh wait, DIFFERENT motor, no comparison at all. Pushrod motor or OHC motor, don't matter both have been around for 100 years plus.

BTW, the parts that make power have nothing to do with where the cam is located, so that has nothing to do with the differences.

In fact an OHC motor should be more powerful because OHC motors don't have the pushrods in the way of the ports which should allow for better port design. But Ford had one of those (not a) better ideas with the 4.6.

In fact I remember when Ford annouced the demise of the 5.0 and the arrival of the 4.6 for the Mustang. Guys were pissed and all the buttkissing magazines made the same claims you are trying to make and guess what, they are wrong about them too. Appears the only way Ford can get big HP numbers is to blow it. The 4.6 was a lump in whatever fullsized car it was in before the Mustang and it's a slightly faster lump today. It's only when boost is added that it gets fast.

Steve

Who is neither a GM nor a Ford guy.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:17 AM   #46
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it's actually a 346ci to get technical. I am just rounding it to 350 for eases sake.

That's fine, but some are apparently confused as to it's relationship to older "350's". Of course GM was especially stupid there. Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Chevy all had 350s at one time or another and they were all completely different and nothing interchanged.

Real stupid there one of GM's better ideas.
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Holy crap he's right.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by 04stang
yeah i'm gonna say that too. i was just surfing for quotes (maybe i should have before i asked) but it was just to get an idea if it was a good idea. so anyway, i was doin some searching and check this **** out........the CHEAPEST quote is like $350/mo for a t/a. this is the recommended quote, its the "middle grade" quote, if you will.




so given this its either have an apt and an 04 mustang, or live at home and have a 99 t/a..............i think i am gonna choose the apt/stang
Holy **** you must have a bad driving record. 350 a month is insane for a 99 even a t/a. At most I could see 1300 every 6mo for a 99 and thats with a bad record. You aren't looking in the right places lol. Check out allstate and and state farm. I could have my truck and a mid 90's gt for about 1200 every 6 months.
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Old 07-14-2005, 12:59 PM   #48
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i pay 220 a month, liability, on a 1987 with a clean driving record

keep in mind, age, location, and things of that nature make a large impact
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Old 07-14-2005, 02:15 PM   #49
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Y'all don't live in louisiana. Our insurance here is the most expensive in the country. Mine is currently $1400 every 6 months for the cobra and the explorer. That p[rice is a NY policy which I Can get away with for now because i still have a house in NY. I have a clean record and am over 25. To get a louisiana policy, with the same coverages, my price will go up to $3400 every 6 months.

Welcome to the place where you fail inspections for bent bumbers, pay tax on food and medicine, and get bent over when in comes to insurance. :beer:
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Old 07-14-2005, 03:14 PM   #50
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^ We pay on food and medicine I think. ****, our city had a city council meeting (an "emergency" one, so nobody knew about it) on 9-12-01 to raise taxes, and they had been trying for 6 months but couldn't pass it due to protests. Needless to say, people had more important things on their mind on 9-12-01 and were unable to stop that.
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Old 07-14-2005, 03:32 PM   #51
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Holy **** you must have a bad driving record.

you would think that huh?

i have an absolutely perfect driving record. even $350/mo is over twice as much as i pay now.

i think i'll take the slower sportscar and my own place versus a faster sportscar and live with my parents, but thats just me.
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:48 PM   #52
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i pay 220 a month, liability, on a 1987 with a clean driving record

keep in mind, age, location, and things of that nature make a large impact

damn, I pay slightly less than 200/mo for my evo. Comes out to about $1150 every 6 mos.
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:49 PM   #53
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About $500 every 6 for my TA.
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Old 07-14-2005, 04:50 PM   #54
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That's fine, but some are apparently confused as to it's relationship to older "350's". Of course GM was especially stupid there. Buick, Olds, Pontiac and Chevy all had 350s at one time or another and they were all completely different and nothing interchanged.

Real stupid there one of GM's better ideas.

yeah, i know the LS1 has no resemblence to the old Chevy small block 350s other than the internal combustion design, and single pushrod cam.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:18 PM   #55
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yeah, i know the LS1 has no resemblence to the old Chevy small block 350s other than the internal combustion design, and single pushrod cam.

Actually, the combustion chamber design is a large part of why it is such a good performer and it doesn't share that with earlier GM V8's, except maybe some direction from the Caddy Northstar.
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Old 07-14-2005, 07:44 PM   #56
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you're biased
Me? Nevaaaah!
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Old 07-14-2005, 08:37 PM   #57
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Actually, the combustion chamber design is a large part of why it is such a good performer and it doesn't share that with earlier GM V8's, except maybe some direction from the Caddy Northstar.
I was meaning it was an internal combustion chamber design engine
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Old 07-14-2005, 09:02 PM   #58
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t/a is a heckuva better choice, enjoy tho insurance tho
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:07 AM   #59
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i still dont understand your thought process on getting that T/A^
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Old 07-15-2005, 11:33 PM   #60
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i still dont understand your thought process on getting that T/A^
its not a T/A, its just a firebird
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Old 07-18-2005, 11:45 AM   #61
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sorry fire bird, i always call them t/a for some reason.. d'oh
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Old 07-18-2005, 12:37 PM   #62
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Quote:
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i still dont understand your thought process on getting that T/A^
always loved stangs and firebirds/trans ams, it was time for the stang to go so i got the bird, plus it was gettin annoying seeing how many girls/80 year olds driving v6stangs around so i wanted to be different (there arent many fbodies around here at all), sometime down the road ill prolly own a v8 stang, but for the time being the firebird was my choice
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:04 PM   #63
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yea there arent very many F-Bodies, no one wanted em due to price. They are rare, much rarer than stangs, I think its 3 to 1 or so... if you want soemthing that you wont see every where on every corner and in more than one at a time lol then you can go firebird. Im sure if you drive one you see more of em though here and there.

Seems more girls drive the v6 version than with mustangs though.
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:10 PM   #64
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i find a lot of girls around where i live drive v8s for the most part(stangs)
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:27 PM   #65
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I think for mustangs its near 50/50 for guys/girls who drive the v6 mustangs. For firebirds its probably 30/70 for guys/girls they are more of a chick car than the camaro. Seems more guys drive the camaro probably about 50/50
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Old 07-18-2005, 02:45 PM   #66
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i would have to say i wouldnt mind a ss camaro but then again i would prolly take a fox to mod over it 9 times out of 10
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Old 07-18-2005, 04:30 PM   #67
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must be diff where you live, i have never seen a girl in a firebird, and rarely in a camaro but i have seen several, as far as mustangs tho its not even funny how many girls are driving em around here
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Old 07-18-2005, 05:29 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpectorV
I think for mustangs its near 50/50 for guys/girls who drive the v6 mustangs. For firebirds its probably 30/70 for guys/girls they are more of a chick car than the camaro. Seems more guys drive the camaro probably about 50/50
Are you serious? Almost every girl I know has now, or has had, an V6 Mustang. I only know a handful of guys that have the V6 versions (excluding the ones I've met here).

I only know a few f-body drivers, all but one are male and they've all got V8s (I work with the female one, and she drives an '01 WS6).
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Old 07-18-2005, 06:55 PM   #69
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one thing that pisses me off tho is ya go to a ricer hangout with a stang or fbody(v6 or v8) and nobody will race, yet when they are on the road they try to act like hot ****
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Old 07-18-2005, 07:13 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Falcon
one thing that pisses me off tho is ya go to a ricer hangout with a stang or fbody(v6 or v8) and nobody will race, yet when they are on the road they try to act like hot ****
th3y f34r t3h d0m35t1c5!!!1!!11111!!!!!!!11
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